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Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this picture?

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Jose

I must have posted at the same time as Joe and it disappeared, sorry for the confusion by mentioning the LDM meet, but it's Old Mexico, i have a penfriend in Leon Gto who's more like a sister than a friend i have the Mi Casa et tu Casa, so my accomodation is arranged, and another good looking goil from the same place on a more romantic basis,
i retired in February and intended moving then,
but having a grown up rug rat at home until he gets out from under my feet has stymied that for a while,

John
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

i guess i am not talking about the same Crystal skulls you are .. i am talking about one skull that was made of silcon ..all the rest are fakes .. the legend as i know it is only based on that one skull part of a codex .. and yes i did nknow most of the skulls were fakes ..

i dont watch the legend any more because untill some real evidecnce is found its nothing more then a good camp fire story . and yes i agree joe .. the true nature of the one skull has never been proven to be fake ...

i really dont watch this legend .. its not my focus point lol

i dont think i would waste time hunting for the sorce ether ...
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Blindbowman said:
i guess i am not talking about the same Crystal skulls you are .. i am talking about one skull that was made of silcon ..all the rest are fakes .. the legend as i know it is only based on that one skull part of a codex .. and yes i did nknow most of the skulls were fakes ..

i dont watch the legend any more because untill some real evidecnce is found its nothing more then a good camp fire story . and yes i agree joe .. the true nature of the one skull has never been proven to be fake ...

i really dont watch this legend .. its not my focus point lol

i dont think i would waste time hunting for the sorce ether ...
Click to expand...

Back in the 80's,I had the pleasure of spending a couple of hours with Anna and her crystal skull ,other maya artifacts and photo albums.I held the skull on my lap ,while she told me some of the stories and showed me her photo collection.She had a few figurines made of jade that were very similar in quality and finish,so it would have been possible,I suppose,for the Maya to have made such a skull.I have yet,though,to see any similar objects made of pure quartz crystal by the Toltec,Maya or the Aztec.
My own feeling was that Anna believed her story,perhaps a result of telling it so many times over the years.It is possible that her father purchased and later "planted" the skull for her to find,without knowing where it would all lead.

Regards:SH.

http://www.thestar.com/Travel/article/196456
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Blindbowman wrote
i would love to have a piece of this silcon tested .. its almost pure
Click to expand...

Interesting that you should say that; at least one of the "mines" marked on the Weavers Needle 7.5 min quad was actually a silica mine, not gold or silver. Some high quality silica does exist in the Superstitions wilderness, which of course would mean that they created a wilderness that is enclosing known mineralized land, which is against the Wilderness Act.

Mike <Gollum> wrote, in reply to our mutual amigo Don Jose;
We need something more than supposition and a good imagination to take us away from the Supers.
Click to expand...

Hmm, so a newspaper account of an attack on Peralta brothers WEST of the Superstitions, coupled with the finding of mining tools in the Goldfield hills with initials that would fit Peraltas, and the fact that someone was working the Mammoth mine well before the Americans discovered it, not to mention the several very good gold mines (not lost) in the same Goldfield hills, is not enough reason?

Blindbowman also wrote
the point i was trying to make is if the Apache had any real claim on the sites then why not make the claim legal and fight it out in court,you dont see that happending because they have a legal claim or evidence to suport it ..the fact is finders keepers as long as the evidence is there to prove it when it needs to be there .,...
Click to expand...

I think the Yavapai (aka "Apache-Mohaves") would have a much better legal claim to having used the Superstitions than the Apaches, but that is just my opinion based on the various incidents (historical) and scarcity of known Apache use of the area. There are known Amerindian burials in the Superstitions, which are marked for us to 'keep out'. How much more protection do you have in mind?

Cubfan wrote
On top of that, I'd say it's not a stretch to believe that things of monetary value HAVE been found and taken out of the Superstition Mountains over the years.
Click to expand...

Several come to mind offhand, including Silverlock and Malm discussed earlier, however in that instance we do not know for a fact that the gold ore they found actually originated in the Superstitions, it could have come from another area. But it was still found there and removed from the Superstitions, so technically should count even so.

John - great post, very interesting! Thank you! :read2: :thumbsup:
Oroblanco
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

somehiker said:
Blindbowman said:
i guess i am not talking about the same Crystal skulls you are .. i am talking about one skull that was made of silcon ..all the rest are fakes .. the legend as i know it is only based on that one skull part of a codex .. and yes i did nknow most of the skulls were fakes ..

i dont watch the legend any more because untill some real evidecnce is found its nothing more then a good camp fire story . and yes i agree joe .. the true nature of the one skull has never been proven to be fake ...

i really dont watch this legend .. its not my focus point lol

i dont think i would waste time hunting for the sorce ether ...
Click to expand...

Back in the 80's,I had the pleasure of spending a couple of hours with Anna and her crystal skull ,other maya artifacts and photo albums.I held the skull on my lap ,while she told me some of the stories and showed me her photo collection.She had a few figurines made of jade that were very similar in quality and finish,so it would have been possible,I suppose,for the Maya to have made such a skull.I have yet,though,to see any similar objects made of pure quartz crystal by the Toltec,Maya or the Aztec.
My own feeling was that Anna believed her story,perhaps a result of telling it so many times over the years.It is possible that her father purchased and later "planted" the skull for her to find,without knowing where it would all lead.

Regards:SH.

http://www.thestar.com/Travel/article/196456
Click to expand...

the reason i stated anything about the crystal skul was because i did find other objects made of silcon .. this same type and grade... arrow heads ..cloveis.. shocking but true .. when we relate to the legend of chicomoztoc being the brithplace of tribes .. it is the only location known to have gone threw the great flood ..

i have been trying to find someone that has one of those crystal arrowheads . to have testeed to see if it is a match to the silcon at my old site 1, my new site is more then 4 miles away but dose have this pure type of silcon ..

i agree SH i dont know if the stroy was true or faults but the logic dose not make me beleive she knew the skull was fake ..often to hide a real object fakes are made and often confused with the real object to hide its where abouts ...as most .. its just a legend at this point .. yet for it to be found in a maya temple if it was .. then chicomoztoc is not unrelated to these sites ...

the real question is that skull fake and is there any real crystal skulls that are not fakes ...i was only makeing that statement because of the high grade silcon at site one ..

i do want to send a sample to be tested and find out as much about the silcon grade as i can .. no dout it is a almost pure grade of silcon ...
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Blindbowman said:
somehiker said:
Blindbowman said:
i guess i am not talking about the same Crystal skulls you are .. i am talking about one skull that was made of silcon ..all the rest are fakes .. the legend as i know it is only based on that one skull part of a codex .. and yes i did nknow most of the skulls were fakes ..

i dont watch the legend any more because untill some real evidecnce is found its nothing more then a good camp fire story . and yes i agree joe .. the true nature of the one skull has never been proven to be fake ...

i really dont watch this legend .. its not my focus point lol

i dont think i would waste time hunting for the sorce ether ...
Click to expand...

Back in the 80's,I had the pleasure of spending a couple of hours with Anna and her crystal skull ,other maya artifacts and photo albums.I held the skull on my lap ,while she told me some of the stories and showed me her photo collection.She had a few figurines made of jade that were very similar in quality and finish,so it would have been possible,I suppose,for the Maya to have made such a skull.I have yet,though,to see any similar objects made of pure quartz crystal by the Toltec,Maya or the Aztec.
My own feeling was that Anna believed her story,perhaps a result of telling it so many times over the years.It is possible that her father purchased and later "planted" the skull for her to find,without knowing where it would all lead.

Regards:SH.

http://www.thestar.com/Travel/article/196456
Click to expand...

the reason i stated anything about the crystal skul was because i did find other objects made of silcon .. this same type and grade... arrow heads ..cloveis.. shocking but true .. when we relate to the legend of chicomoztoc being the brithplace of tribes .. it is the only location known to have gone threw the great flood ..

i have been trying to find someone that has one of those crystal arrowheads . to have testeed to see if it is a match to the silcon at my old site 1, my new site is more then 4 miles away but dose have this pure type of silcon ..

i agree SH i dont know if the stroy was true or faults but the logic dose not make me beleive she knew the skull was fake ..often to hide a real object fakes are made and often confused with the real object to hide its where abouts ...as most .. its just a legend at this point .. yet for it to be found in a maya temple if it was .. then chicomoztoc is not unrelated to these sites ...

the real question is that skull fake and is there any real crystal skulls that are not fakes ...i was only makeing that statement because of the high grade silcon at site one ..

i do want to send a sample to be tested and find out as much about the silcon grade as i can .. no dout it is a almost pure grade of silcon ...
Click to expand...

BB - I just want to correct you in your use of the word silicon. Since I work in the industry, I have to assume you meant to use the word silica not silicon correct?
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Roy,

Hmm, so a newspaper account of an attack on Peralta brothers WEST of the Superstitions, coupled with the finding of mining tools in the Goldfield hills with initials that would fit Peraltas, and the fact that someone was working the Mammoth mine well before the Americans discovered it, not to mention the several very good gold mines (not lost) in the same Goldfield hills, is not enough reason?
Click to expand...

Well, considering the fact that I was talking to Jose about the fitment of the trail on the Stone Maps, and not the location of the DLM, that is correct.

It would take more than anything currently out there to make me seriously consider the Stone Maps as applying to anyplace other than the Supers.

As far as the Mammoth being the DLM, I HIGHLY doubt it. I can imagine that both Bark and Ely had access to the same information, yet they continued their searches until their deaths in areas far from there. I can imagine that the Mammoth MIGHT have been one of the Peralta Mines (remember, they are supposed to have had several), but not the DLM.

The Mammoth mine was operating on a large scale by 1888
Click to expand...

Don't you think that Waltz would have known if his mine was being operated on a large scale? After all, he WAS still alive and well in 1888.

And there are ore samples from the Mammoth. Think they matched the sample from under Waltz' Bed? Not me.

Best-Mike
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

HIO Don Gullum, mi buddy:

Personally, I believe that the stone maps do apply to the superstitions, but am also trying to show that they could be made to fit other areas also. If so, so could the rest of the basic information.

At this stage, who knows??

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Side thingie Gully, most Present day Tayopa searchers have the same original data that I had, yet are still searching north around the Guaynopa. Remember, I have only posted data on Tayopa in here, treasure net. So unless they are readers of TN, most would have no idea that it has been found. I understand that two parties are in the field up there looking for it today, or planning to do so as soon as the weather moderates. Those deep canyons are murder.

So the mere fact that the LDM guru's spent their lives using the present data, data which you presently have, looking for the LDM unsuccessfully, certainly doesn't reccomend the present lot of information very highly, so where is the problem? Mine is to shake you out of accepting what others in the past have accepted and passed on as a biblical lead. Remember they were not idiots, but fairly sharp individuals.

I.E. find the d--- lost dutchman mine !

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Don Josie and the Pu$$ycats,

These stones were found buried less than five miles from the area that they very accurately show in the maps. Start there.

They COULD POSSIBLY fit a particular area in Outer Mongolia, buuuuuuuuuuuut why don't we give the serious consideration to the place that accurately fits them closest to where they were found?

Best-Mike
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

........... and who says the Stone Maps have anything to do with either the Peraltas or the Dutchman's Lost Mine?

While the names Pedro and Miguel are carved into them, and those are the names of two prominent Peraltas, how common are those names in Mexico?

Who says those stones weren't made up to support Baron Reavis' fraudulent Land Grant Claims in the 1880s?

Who says they weren't made to show the location of a Jesuit Treasure from 1766-1767?

While I like to use the term MOST LIKELY, those two are just as likely as the Peralta Mine Version.

Best-Mike
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

The “Stones” are not your typical “Mapquest” maps. They were never intended to simply be laid over a topo or surveyed area, and then simply follow whatever fits best. The trail (18 lugares) was never meant to be followed – more so to throw a follower off the trail. – To make the follower say to himself “this can’t be right!” It is everything else on the "Stones" that truly lead the way… IMHO

Jerry
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Ahh Bowman, good to see you back, thought you had got lost out in the desert.

:coffee2:
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Yo! Clueless. I'm NOT Bowman!!! - it was kind of a rant though... :tongue3:
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Javaone said:
Yo! Clueless. I'm NOT Bowman!!! - it was kind of a rant though... :tongue3:
Click to expand...

I am curious as to why you might call me clueless ?
I was obviously speaking to someone named Bowman.
So really which one of us is clueless ?
 

Re: Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions? What is wrong with this 'picture'?

Peerless67 said:
Javaone said:
Yo! Clueless. I'm NOT Bowman!!! - it was kind of a rant though... :tongue3:
Click to expand...

I am curious as to why you might call me clueless ?
I was obviously speaking to someone named Bowman.
So really which one of us is clueless ?
Click to expand...

Sorry Perrless67,

If you look back at the previous posts - Bowman has not posted for a little while. Sooo... I felt your last post was pointed at me. :notworthy:

Jerry
 

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