Lets have a Poll...... Is our Constitution a taboo subject on T-Net?

[0121stockpicker]

110% believe in it and have also sworn to defend it against all enemies foreign or domestic.
It is not a ever living breathing document. It means what it says period. not open for interpitation.

Dog - see diesels post above. He is 100 percent correct. Can be changed, just not on a whim - to put it simply. More than happy to post the constitutional amendment process if anyone needs a civics refresher.

 

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[0121stockpicker]

It appears a Supreme Court Judge agress with me.........

01/29/2013
Justice Scalia: Constitution is ‘dead’

"Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia took the stage at Southern Methodist University Monday night and argued the Constitution is “not a living document” and is “dead, dead, dead.”
Justice Scalia discussed how children would visit the Supreme Court and refer to the Constitution as a “living document” but that the Constitution is, in fact, “dead.” A staunch conservative and “textualist,” Scalia believes the law must be taken literally and that the original meaning of the Constitution is the best way to interpret it.
While giving a lecture with SMU law professor Bryan Garner, Justice Scalia also stated that his legal decisions do not always align with his political views. “The judge who always likes the results he reaches is a bad judge,” Scalia told the audience."

TH - see diesels post above. He is 100 percent correct. Can be changed, just not on a whim - to put it simply. More than happy to post the constitutional amendment process if anyone needs a civics refresher.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The constitution is to be taken at face value, not twisted by accident-chasing lawyers, otherwise it ends up like Slick Willy's "It depends on what your definition of is, is" statement. How easily the wool is pulled.

I believe in the U.S. Constitution WITH Amendments... MORE than just a BoR; It IS a "Living Document". NOT just a "ROCK", which is DEAD, unless... it is a CRYSTAL.

 

[dieselram94]

Was that directed at you? I don't remember naming anyone specific. I never said it can't be changed, I said it is a rock this country is built on. What did I make just Fine for you? Prohibition.....How did that work out? Not good results.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

TH - see diesels post above. He is 100 percent correct. Can be changed, just not on a whim - to put it simply. More than happy to post the constitutional amendment process if anyone needs a civics refresher.

I do not need a civic refresher, I said the Constitution can be amended, I know the process. It takes 2/3 of both houses of congress to approve the bill and send it to the people, and 3/4 of the states have to ratifiy it for it to pass and usually have a 7 year time span to do so. 37 states would have to pass it for it to be ratified.

There are four means for an amendment to be ratified by the states:​

1. Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state conventions (never used)
2. Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state legislatures (never used)
3. Proposal by Congress, ratification by state conventions (used once)
4. Proposal by Congress, ratification by state legislatures (used all other times)​

 

[dieselram94]

Just because there is an amendment process does not mean it should be done. To change in anyway the second amendment is to throw away the rest of our rights.

 

[0121stockpicker]

Just because there is an amendment process does not mean it should be done. To change in anyway the second amendment is to throw away the rest of our rights.

Again, I completely agree with you. We are completely on the same page with this. That it shouldn't be done and the claim of some that it CAN'T be done are two completely different things.

You will notice that I have absolutely never said anything should be done with the second amendment not do I believe anything will ever be done to the second amendment.

As opposed to some of the fear mongers out there who keep saying the second amendment will be taken away - just not going to happen, nor should it.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Was that directed at you? I don't remember naming anyone specific. I never said it can't be changed, I said it is a rock this country is built on. What did I make just Fine for you? Prohibition.....How did that work out? Not good results.

JUST a poll...

 

[0121stockpicker]

Was that directed at you? I don't remember naming anyone specific. I never said it can't be changed, I said it is a rock this country is built on. What did I make just Fine for you? Prohibition.....How did that work out? Not good results.

You are exactly correct. Prohibition is a perfect example of just how fluid the constitution can be. Changed and then changed again twenty years later. No one arguing whether its good or bad, successful or not. The point is that the founding father were wise enough to purposely build in mechanisms which allow change. But make it difficult enough so the change is not done on a whim. To your exact point above.

And yes I certainly agree with all of you that the constitution provides the basis from which our legal systems and laws flow. Complete agreement with that. I don't think I've ever disagreed with that point.

 

[packerbacker]

I never said living, rock OR dead Rebel.................and crystal?
I said it should be interpretted at "Face value". If I look at my child and say "Get to bed", the child could ask, "Who, me?", "My bed?", "Now?" or he could just go to bed like he was told. I was looking at him when I said it so he knew I meant "him", he knows which bed he sleeps in and he also knows that I meant, now. That's face value.
Everyone knows the constitution can be changed with amendments but it cannot be changed to lessen or eliminate rights already written into it.

 

[dieselram94]

Maybe Rebel has been looking into the said crystal.....

 

[packerbacker]

it's a zen thing

 

[0121stockpicker]

I never said living, rock OR dead Rebel.................and crystal?
I said it should be interpretted at "Face value". If I look at my child and say "Get to bed", the child could ask, "Who, me?", "My bed?", "Now?" or he could just go to bed like he was told. I was looking at him when I said it so he knew I meant "him", he knows which bed he sleeps in and he also knows that I meant, now. That's face value.
Everyone knows the constitution can be changed with amendments but it cannot be changed to lessen or eliminate rights already written into it.

Where in the constitution does it say that it can not be changed to lessen or eliminate rights already written into it.

If my memory serves me right we once had a right to drink booze which then the people in there infinite wisdom decided should be taken away. Luckily 20 years or so later they decided that was a bad idea.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Maybe Rebel has been looking into the said crystal.....

And YOU ARE NOT there... WOE!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

it's a zen thing

You would be AMAZED!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Where in the constitution does it say that it can not be changed to lessen or eliminate rights already written into it.

If my memory serves me right we once had a right to drink booze which then the people in there infinite wisdom decided should be taken away. Luckily 20 years or so later they decided that was a bad idea.

YEP!

 

[0121stockpicker]

The constitution is to be taken at face value, not twisted by accident-chasing lawyers, otherwise it ends up like Slick Willy's "It depends on what your definition of is, is" statement. How easily the wool is pulled.

Backer thank goodness it's not just taken at face value or no one except landowner white makes would be able to vote right now. Or maybe you would be happy if everyone could use their freedom of speech to yell fire in the proverbial theater. No one with any knowledge of constitutional law and the millions upon millions of pages of complex decisions and laws based upon the constitution could believe that a deep level of interpretation is not involved. I know we are scared of what we don't understand but that doesn't change reality.

 

[0121stockpicker]

I do not need a civic refresher, I said the Constitution can be amended, I know the process. It takes 2/3 of both houses of congress to approve the bill and send it to the people, and 3/4 of the states have to ratifiy it for it to pass and usually have a 7 year time span to do so. 37 states would have to pass it for it to be ratified.

There are four means for an amendment to be ratified by the states:
1. Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state conventions (never used)
2. Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state legislatures (never used)
3. Proposal by Congress, ratification by state conventions (used once)
4. Proposal by Congress, ratification by state legislatures (used all other times)

Ok, very good. Now I've missed the part about the bill of rights being legally different than any other amendment to the constitution as you stated above? It appears that they in fact do NOT have any priority or special consideration as compared to any other amendment.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Oh but they do, that is why they are called Bill of Rights not just amendments, but obviously that is something you will never understand.

 

[wingmaster]

I would hate for them to say based on today's reality all the super rich aren't making enough money so were just going to have to enslave all of you people. See the problem with interpretation is anyone can spin it to benefit them.

Folks,

Just a Canuck's take on it.....the living/breathing part of it falls under the term jurisprudence.....that is interpretation of the Constitution is the context of today's reality.

If it wasn't open to interpretation based on today's reality it would become redundant and/or irrelevant....due to the evolution of the world.....just my humble opinion.

Regards + HH

Bill