LDM why you cant get it !

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp said:
Good morning from snowyTucson. I am only here for two days, VA check up appt. This thread is quite interesting, but I must point out two potential errors so far--->

A ) That is NOT an arrastre in the picture. Exactly just what it's function was, I cannot say without examining it closer, but it was not an arratre .....
Click to expand...

Looks like the strike surface of a crude drop mill.
 

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Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Don Jose and Springfield,

Which is why I said, "This is said to be what is left of a very old arrastra."

Personally, I have always leaned towards Springfield's conclusion, or even some kind of anchor for a lodge pole. Without further examination, I would not rule out that it is all that is left of an arrastra.

Take care,

Joe
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Gentlemen,

The "4 Peaks" in relationship to Red Mountain. (this is not the 4 Peaks area, but is nearly in line between the two, corrected in a later post on this thread)

Who said the "4 Peaks" in line had to stand in front of each other, Waltz ? he's not talking.

We are talking Rank vs File as standing in line.

So JC you are saying water runs up hill in Arizona ! And you are also saying the over supply of dirt at the base of what I first described as El Sombrero is the effect of a Flash Flood. As well as the open area under the wall of Red Mountain.

I do urge all of those interested who have the capability to view this in 'google earth' to do so. The 3rd dimension is lost when I post a photo.......J
 

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Re: LDM why you can't get it !

I thought it was something like, "To the south, you can see the Needle, and in the opposite direction, the Four Peaks appear as one"?

If that's correct, that would mean it's on a line between the two, and the peaks would then be in a line pointing toward it.

Or am I remembering that wrong?
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

" You can look north, and the Four Peaks are lined up to look like one peak. In the other direction you will see a high needle."
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Well then I had the opposite opposite.

But the peaks are situated generally north to south, so the needle he spoke of there must be southerly from the four peaks. And his mine must be generally on that line, if he actually said that, and if he was telling the truth.
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Hello,

I believe Waltz was supposed to be Nearsighted as well so...........

Thanks,
Travis
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Good evening Jack- you posted -->So JC you are saying water runs up hill in Arizona !
****************
Doesn't it everywhere???
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for that supposed Arrestra, an Arrastra is simply a drag mill. A large rock is drug in a circular motion around and around a center pivot to grind smaller rocks to a fine powder in order to expose any metal to be recovered by various processes.

In this particular specimen shows absolutely no circular wear or grind marks, in addition the base would never work as constructed.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Dirty Dutchman said:
Hello,

I believe Waltz was supposed to be Nearsighted as well so...........

Thanks,
Travis
Click to expand...




Y'know, I always wondered how in the heck he ever found the dang thing, to begin with.

And now you've just added to that!


Wherever it is, it's supposed to be some place that nobody would ever look. Isn't he supposed to have said one time that, "no miner would ever look there," and another time, "no cowboy would ever find it"?

So, why did he look there?


And if it's supposed to be down a "slippery slope," then he wasn't just plodding along somewhere, and happened to notice something. So then what the heck was he doing when he found it?
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

EE THr said:
Dirty Dutchman said:
Hello,

I believe Waltz was supposed to be Nearsighted as well so...........

Thanks,
Travis
Click to expand...




Y'know, I always wondered how in the heck he ever found the dang thing, to begin with.

And now you've just added to that!


Wherever it is, it's supposed to be some place that nobody would ever look. Isn't he supposed to have said one time that, "no miner would ever look there," and another time, "no cowboy would ever find it"?

So, why did he look there?


And if it's supposed to be down a "slippery slope," then he wasn't just plodding along somewhere, and happened to notice something. So then what the heck was he doing when he found it?
Click to expand...



Maybe someone actually DID show him the mine? Maybe he didnt "find" it. Maybe he didnt have one at all?

Travis
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Travis---

Well, I don't think any of the stories would indicate that he just stumbled upon it.

Although he was supposed to be knowledgeable about prospecting, if he thought that it wouldn't have any indicators which would attract the attention of a miner, then why would it attract his attention.

It sort of lends itself to the idea that he was told about it.

Of course, then whoever originally found it would inherit the same question: How and why?

Unless it was actually a cache....
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

EE THr said:
Travis---

Well, I don't think any of the stories would indicate that he just stumbled upon it.

Although he was supposed to be knowledgeable about prospecting, if he thought that it wouldn't have any indicators which would attract the attention of a miner, then why would it attract his attention.

It sort of lends itself to the idea that he was told about it.

Of course, then whoever originally found it would inherit the same question: How and why?

Unless it was actually a cache....
Click to expand...


EE,

I was just answering your original question of "why would he look there". I personally believe he was shown the mine. But :dontknow:

I have my own theory about what kind of "miner" would look there. I also believe its a mine (Sort of). But the whole "cache" thing could very well be true too. Again, anyones theory is as good as mine.

Thanks,
Travis
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Travis---

Yep, any theory is, after all, a theory.

I don't have any inside information, just what's on the Web. But the public information, all put together, can have it's own story to tell.

For example, one "set" of stories, and maps, involves a marked cactus, a corral, and some landmarks.

Another set of stories includes directions to the Dutchman, several maps of the period, plus descriptions of what's around his spot, and references to landmarks.

These two sets of stories and maps apparently indicate two completely different sites.

Then there are Mexican maps, supposedly of their multiple mines.

And there are also Indian stories, and soldier stories, and more.

Unless the stories are intentionally fake, then corroborating data from different sources, would seem to have the most merit.

While the "two sets" of stories, leading to unrelated areas, would tend to say that one set was intended to mislead.

And then the "Peralta" Stones. They could be Mexican, Spanish, Jesuit, or just a hoax.

What is your theory about what kind of "miner" would look there?
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

EE,

Which "two sets" of stories are you referring to? If its the Petrasch/Thomas and Holmes directions, i believe they lead to the exact same place.(Again, just my opinion based on my own research and thoughts) Which just shows why this thing has been so difficult to find. Four people can read one set of clues and come up with four different places to look! :BangHead:

In my heart, i just dont believe most of it is a hoax. Some of it maybe, but most of it is real, in my opinion.

Thanks,
Travis
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

DD,

There are many many theories.

The idea of a cowboy not finding it, supposedly was to mean that a cowboy would never get down off his horse. Then again, in some theories,
a cowboy DID find something, (not necessarily the Dutchman mine, but the Black Maverick mine, which could be the same mine, as could the Lost Pick mine) when his horse fell through some rotten timbers.

Also, there are some theories/stories that say Jacob actually had a drywasher made, and found it that way. The story goes that the guy who made the drywasher searched for the rest of his life for Waltz's mine. We know there are many, many places in the Supers where you can pan
gold - not life changing gold, maybe, but gold never-the-less. Gold that could be "followed up" to the source.

Definitely someone had to find the mine in the first place. Other theories are, of course, the Peraltas. Some sources say that Waltz got it through them, and some sources say that Waltz's partner, Wisner,(Weiser,Wiser), saved a Peralta in a fight and got it that way.

Beth
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

I recall that there are different sources who said the mine was gotten-to down a steep, cliff-like incline. It was supposed to be a pit, so it would have to be on a step in the cliff. So someone riding a horse wouldn't be riding over that. Even someone walking, wouldn't be traveling over it (not on purpose, anyway).

And if he did also say that no miner would find it, then it would exclude the scenario of him following the float to it's source, because that's a common thing for miners to do.

As for someone else finding it first, then showing it to him, they would not find it by miners methods, either. Or so he thought. (If he really said it.)

But, someone might consider a very difficult spot to get to, as being the perfect place to cache some high grade ore.

This idea would require that whoever stashed it, would have told him about it. And maybe he called it his "mine" just to throw people off.

:sign13:
 

Re: LDM why you can't get it !

Dirty Dutchman said:
In my heart, i just dont believe most of it is a hoax. Some of it maybe, but most of it is real, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I think it has been established that he certainly had some good amounts of gold ore, and that he sold significant amounts of it. And that the characteristics of it exclude it from being high graded from goldfield.

So, it had to come from somewhere. It also seems established that he said that he got it from "his mine."

And that he made trips into the Superstitions.

So something was going on there.
 

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