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LDM, OZ, & CALALUS

E-mail about caves:
______________________

[There were some caves also along the lake - I recall mention of one that had a very rickety ladder or such to get to.


One of the stories was that once you went down the spiral stairs (on tunnel with mayan faces overhead), you could enter a massive cave. The Apaches (White res I think) told xxxx he could enter the tunnels, BUT he must give them one item. They said he would know it when he saw it. It was described as about the size of a volleyball or basketball. xxxx believed it was another crystal skull.


The Apaches spoke of other caves - not necessarily in the sups but ? Geronimo's cave was the one that intrigued me. It was supposed to be miles of tunnel that he used to escape. They apparently have it sealed up but a number of the tribe have been inside... There's stories of another cave or was it just a cliff where the indians at one time dumped several loads of treasure - thinking at the time that gold was evil.]

I believe I have several other such stories.
_____________________________________

Good luck,

Joe
 

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Not Peralta said:
Oroblanco. I did not neglect anything, np:cat:
Click to expand...

　
Then either you are deliberately refusing to answer my questions:

<I posted these earlier>
1: Why do you think this "O" stands for Omega in Atlantian? O is the endless circle, without beginning OR END, infinity, or the more obscure "doctrine of the sphere"; the "circle of the Earth" alluded to by the ancients; it is not logical as a symbol for Omega which is END.

　
2: You neglected to answer why you believe Atlantis is linked to those sites in the Superstitions, can you explain that or is it beyond the understanding of us mortals?

　
Or you are UNABLE to answer the questions. Since you did not state that you are unable to answer, your reply is just rude,. Not the first time you or Starman1 have refused to answer questions, starting to look like a regular pattern for you two.

　
Do you think that by refusing to answer, that will convince me the Starman1 story is true, that O the endless circle, really means "The end", and that a secretive group have been secretly "protecting" sites in the Superstition mountains? Do you think that adds a layer of "mystique" to this rather farfetched tale of Starman1?
　
Starman1's "group" have been protecting the site(s) for 1000 years - and in that time were not EVER encountered by Spanish, or later American explorers? See a problem there? Where did these 'guardians' live, all those centuries? Did they have their own village near the Superstitions or did they live with the Pimas or Apaches or what?

I was attempting to allow YOU to state what had convinced YOU, as with the O symbol for instance, since you are a believer of Starman1 and quick to support every statement posted by same; I believe you to be intelligent and not just a dummy that would believe anything that came down the pike. May have to re-examine those assumptions on my part, especially since you keep trying to pass me to your pal Starman1. Would you like it, were I to keep suggesting that you talk to Cactusjumper, when you post to me?

Really I do not know how you fellows are going to attract more believers, by rude behavior on a forum. This added-on story of Atlantis, a secret library, guardians, (for starters) to the Calalus artifacts which are in themselves questionable, is looking more and more to be total fiction.

　
I presume that you are aware that a majority of historians think Atlantis is a morality fiction story, which position I believe will change when more evidence is found though the real Atlantis may not look like what it is imagined to be. Were this tale of a library of Atlantis hidden in secret tunnels in the Superstitions true - it would raise many more questions. The location is far from a coast or (currently) navigable river, and while Diodorus stated that the Atlantians held control of parts of the American continents, such control was likely only along the coasts and waterways, which would allow free passage of their ships. In that respect not far different from the Spanish, French and Portuguese colonial empires of a few centuries ago, the hinterlands not being under control of the empire and in fact not even well known. So if this really were a hidden archive of Atlantian tablets as is claimed, how did it end up in such a remote location? Was Atlantian control much farther inland than is suggested by Plato? Why have not more artifacts, ruins etc been found then, since these inland regions did not sink below the sea?

　
Sarge and Joe - thanks for the tip and story!

Good luck and good hunting NP and everyone reading this, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

　
:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2: :coffee2:
　
　
　
　
 

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I have not had an opportunity to post in awhile due to my schedule. It seems as though several people have copies of the Bent manuscript. I have not had any success acquiring a copy, can someone point me in the right direction? Cost?
Thanks,

oldpueblo
 

cactusjumper said:
Don Jose,

I have a drawing of that snake. Will post it when I get home.

Take care,

Joe

Does this look like your river snake:dontknow:

Click to expand...

That's a drawing by Brian Fawcett, from a sketch done by his father, Col Percy Fawcett in 1907. Col Fawcett shot and killed an Anaconda that swam under his canoe and slithered ashore on the Rio Abuna, not far from its confluence with the Mamoré. The reptile measured 62 feet total length. Even though Fawcett was an officer in the British Army, a Fellow in the Royal Geographic Society, an adept land surveyor and a near legendary documenter of scientific observations, he was accused of lying about the length of the snake. The Brazilian Boundary Commission later reported killing an anaconda on the Rio Paraguay greater than 80 feet long.

Since we're speaking of lost civilizations here (so to speak), Fawcett's life in the jungle is on topic. After several surveying expeditions in Brazil, Bolivia and Peru, Fawcett accumulated enough information from locals, natives and other sources (such as the famous Portuguese Manuscript 512) that his focus shifted from government surveying to full-time explorer, searching for Jesuit mines and lost cities in the unexplored parts of the Amazon Basin. He was 100% convinced of the existence of the 'Lost City of Z', which he believed was a direct remnant of Atlantis. He disappeared without a trace looking for the site in 1925, presumably in the Xingu River country of the Mato Grosso.
 

Somehiker Thank you for the reply. I already checked there and that file is only a list of contents that the Bent family turned over to the museum.
 

Springfield said:
That's a drawing by Brian Fawcett, from a sketch done by his father, Col Percy Fawcett in 1907. Col Fawcett shot and killed an Anaconda that swam under his canoe and slithered ashore on the Rio Abuna, not far from its confluence with the Mamoré. The reptile measured 62 feet total length. Even though Fawcett was an officer in the British Army, a Fellow in the Royal Geographic Society, an adept land surveyor and a near legendary documenter of scientific observations, he was accused of lying about the length of the snake. The Brazilian Boundary Commission later reported killing an anaconda on the Rio Paraguay greater than 80 feet long.

Since we're speaking of lost civilizations here (so to speak), Fawcett's life in the jungle is on topic. After several surveying expeditions in Brazil, Bolivia and Peru, Fawcett accumulated enough information from locals, natives and other sources (such as the famous Portuguese Manuscript 512) that his focus shifted from government surveying to full-time explorer, searching for Jesuit mines and lost cities in the unexplored parts of the Amazon Basin. He was 100% convinced of the existence of the 'Lost City of Z', which he believed was a direct remnant of Atlantis. He disappeared without a trace looking for the site in 1925, presumably in the Xingu River country of the Mato Grosso.
Click to expand...

Springfield,

Nice job. The picture was used as the cover art on "Exploration Fawcett" which is a book about the expeditions by Colonel P.H. Fawcett. The book was arranged from his personal writings including notes, letters, log-book,....etc. His son, Brian Fawcett published it.

The story of the run in with the, not unusually large, anaconda can be found on page 85.

Take care,

Joe
 

cactusjumper said:
Roy,

It's more than possible that the circle has something to do with the Apache. I would suggest that you find a copy of:

"Living Life's Circle" by Claire Farrer. If you can't find a copy and are interested, I will send you mine. Most Native American cultures have reverence for the circle.

Found a bunch.

Living lifes circles - AbeBooks

Good luck,

Joe
Click to expand...

Thanks for the book suggestion Joe, I think I have seen that very book in our local library, and it is inexpensive to just buy a copy so either way I will get it. I am aware of the significance of the circle among many (not all) Indian tribes, however Starman1 had stated this "O" symbol was the Atlantian symbol for Omega, and Not Peralta had affirmed it several times, hence my angle of questioning along the lines of Atlantis and related "O" symbols <Omicron or Ayin> as compared with real Omega symbols.


I suppose one could make a connection to American Indian tribes via the "doctrine of the sphere" <spherical nature of the universe and worlds> alluded to by Diodorus, which he stated, was the real meaning of the myth of the Titan, Atlas holding up the Earth sphere, then learned by Herakles from him and thus he also "carried the sphere" back to Greece. As Atlas was located at the far western edge of the world, he might have been in America. One of the more popular authors proposed this linkage and tied it to the strange and huge stone spheres found in Central America, however I cannot recall the title of his book or author name (Graham Hancock? I have the book but it is not handy). To then link this to the Apaches requires another leap, and then to be placed on a Roman/Jewish/Christian "relic" as an Apache symbol would require another one. Kind of tenuous however IMHO and not mentioned by Starman1 or NP.

Roy

:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2: :coffee2:
 

Oroblanco, have some :coffee2: if you read post 160, starman tells you how "O" is used. np:cat:
 

cactusjumper said:
Springfield,

Nice job. The picture was used as the cover art on "Exploration Fawcett" which is a book about the expeditions by Colonel P.H. Fawcett. The book was arranged from his personal writings including notes, letters, log-book,....etc. His son, Brian Fawcett published it.

The story of the run in with the, not unusually large, anaconda can be found on page 85.

Take care,

Joe
Click to expand...

I recognized your posted picture because I just finished reading the book a few days ago - it's a great read. I'm now reading Brazilian Adventure, written in 1933 by Peter Fleming - Ian Fleming's older brother - who joined an expedition to search for Fawcett a few years after his disappearance. It's a very funny read so far.
 

Cactusjumper Thanks.
Ugggh! I could kick myself. I was just down at the museum on Saturday looking over the artifacts. I knew they had the manuscript but it totally slipped my mind to ask them if it's possible for them to copy. I'll have to give them a call to see what they say.
 

Oroblanco said:
Thanks for the book suggestion Joe, I think I have seen that very book in our local library, and it is inexpensive to just buy a copy so either way I will get it. I am aware of the significance of the circle among many (not all) Indian tribes, however Starman1 had stated this "O" symbol was the Atlantian symbol for Omega, and Not Peralta had affirmed it several times, hence my angle of questioning along the lines of Atlantis and related "O" symbols <Omicron or Ayin> as compared with real Omega symbols.


I suppose one could make a connection to American Indian tribes via the "doctrine of the sphere" <spherical nature of the universe and worlds> alluded to by Diodorus, which he stated, was the real meaning of the myth of the Titan, Atlas holding up the Earth sphere, then learned by Herakles from him and thus he also "carried the sphere" back to Greece. As Atlas was located at the far western edge of the world, he might have been in America. One of the more popular authors proposed this linkage and tied it to the strange and huge stone spheres found in Central America, however I cannot recall the title of his book or author name (Graham Hancock? I have the book but it is not handy). To then link this to the Apaches requires another leap, and then to be placed on a Roman/Jewish/Christian "relic" as an Apache symbol would require another one. Kind of tenuous however IMHO and not mentioned by Starman1 or NP.

Roy

:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2: :coffee2:
Click to expand...

Roy,

I must admit, it's a tough book to read......for me. I have been known to read the back of a cereal box, if nothing else was at hand, but this book did not hold my interest.:read2::sleepy2:

At this point the whole OZ story has reached the Ho-hum level. Believe Ben has finally run out of fresh/interesting material.

Still waiting for a picture of the library at OZ, or any of the other artifacts that were found there. Got pictures of one book from Atlantis?

Take care,

Joe
 

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