Knights of the Golden Circle after the Civil War

[Tnwoods]

Again, not to be a cloud of rain on a sunshiny day, but:

A very important point needs to be made here. That is that most of the huge treasures that were buried by the KGC, in the form of large depositories and smaller marker caches, were buried AFTER the War ended.

What was left in tact after the war war utterly destroyed during reconstruction. There was mass poverty. The only folks who didn't surrender were living in Mexico in poverty. Folks had to keep their rifles hidden - as it was against the law to have one for a long time. The Union occupied every major city and constantly harassed the rural area's. It was basically a state of Martial Law for a long time.

When B. Forrest started the Klan, it wasn't long before the Union came down on them - if you check your history, they were told if they didn't turn in their rifles and disband, the wrath of the Union was going to come down on them. I lived 20 miles from where the Klan was started for 12 years, so I know a little about that.

It wasn't like there was access to a lot of cash to hide after the war, especially in the South. The whole reconstruction deal was meant to devastate the South so that they could NOT rise up again, because they wouldn't have either the money or the weapons.

Many of the Generals, including Lee, lost everything during the war. All the wealth was depleted, or stolen by the North.

So my question is - where did these " treasures" come from after the war?

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[Kentucky Kache]

Again, not to be a cloud of rain on a sunshiny day, but:

A very important point needs to be made here. That is that most of the huge treasures that were buried by the KGC, in the form of large depositories and smaller marker caches, were buried AFTER the War ended.

What was left in tact after the war war utterly destroyed during reconstruction. There was mass poverty. The only folks who didn't surrender were living in Mexico in poverty. Folks had to keep their rifles hidden - as it was against the law to have one for a long time. The Union occupied every major city and constantly harassed the rural area's. It was basically a state of Martial Law for a long time.

When B. Forrest started the Klan, it wasn't long before the Union came down on them - if you check your history, they were told if they didn't turn in their rifles and disband, the wrath of the Union was going to come down on them. I lived 20 miles from where the Klan was started for 12 years, so I know a little about that.

It wasn't like there was access to a lot of cash to hide after the war, especially in the South. The whole reconstruction deal was meant to devastate the South so that they could NOT rise up again, because they wouldn't have either the money or the weapons.

Many of the Generals, including Lee, lost everything during the war. All the wealth was depleted, or stolen by the North.

So my question is - where did these " treasures" come from after the war?

You don't understand just how much money those old guys made from slave labour, do you? Yes, poverty existed and it was extreme, but not for all, at least before the War.

 

[Tnwoods]

You don't understand just how much money those old guys made from slave labour, do you? Yes, poverty existed and it was extreme, but not for all, at least before the War.

Yes - before the war the South was wealthy, but not after.

He stated they hid all this wealth AFTER the war ended. I was just wondering where all that wealth came from after the war, as the South was in ruins, both psychically and economically.

As a defeated confederacy, they were not getting any loans from foreign governments, they had nothing left themselves, Jeff Davis didn't have that much with him, and except for some he tucked away, it is accounted for. (except for about 3/4 of a million one of his old generals accused him of having - but hey - outside of one guy - there is no evidence he had that much)

Jesse James wasn't superman - even if the theories that have him neck deep in KGC are true, he could not have possibly stolen that much to fill all these vaults.

So again I ask, after the war, where did they get all the money to hide in these vaults?

 

[Kentucky Kache]

You don't understand just how much money those old guys made from slave labour, do you? Yes, poverty existed and it was extreme, but not for all, at least before the War.

Yes - before the war the South was wealthy, but not after.

He stated they hid all this wealth AFTER the war ended. I was just wondering where all that wealth came from after the war, as the South was in ruins, both psychically and economically.

As a defeated confederacy, they were not getting any loans from foreign governments, they had nothing left themselves, Jeff Davis didn't have that much with him, and except for some he tucked away, it is accounted for. (except for about 3/4 of a million one of his old generals accused him of having - but hey - outside of one guy - there is no evidence he had that much)

Jesse James wasn't superman - even if the theories that have him neck deep in KGC are true, he could not have possibly stolen that much to fill all these vaults.

So again I ask, after the war, where did they get all the money to hide in these vaults?

Where did the money go? Whatever your answer, I don't think you can say that it ALL went that way, as some of those guys were extremely wealthy. I don't think they hid money in every town, and certainly not billions, but I don't doubt some was buried. I've never heard of anyone ever finding large KGC caches, but I have heard of smaller finds.
You seem to be focused on the famous only, but there were thousands of rich farmers in the south, and it's not unreasonable that some of them hid money. Were any of these farmers KGC members?

 

[alec]

I don't think anybody doubts that the farmers and others may have buried some of there own personal money but just becasue somebody may have been a member of the KGC and buried their own personal money doesn't mean they were burying money FOR the KGC. It simply means they were trying to keep what they had safe.

I can't believe Brewer's book is being quoted as a reference. There's so much bad information in there why would you want to quote anything out of the book? You would be better off quoting the original sources if you wanted to have any real significance.

The original photo at the top of this thread is of the Knights of Pythia/Pithias, however it's said.

 

[cccalco]

OK. No evidence of post war KGC here but it does that they are not quite forgotten by some.

"Woman Who Left Citadel Says Klan Was Glorified - New York Times
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?
res=9E06E7D9153CF93BA35755C0A961958260&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Woman Who Left Citadel Says Klan Was Glorified - New York Times
Published: June 8, 1997

The former cadet, Jeanie Mentavlos, said she had been hazed because
she could not answer a question about the Knights of the Golden
Circle, a faction of the Klan.

''For two weeks straight, I sat there in front of a full plate of
food and I was not allowed to eat because I didn't know who they
were,'' she said. ''There was a certain degree of obsession for the
K.K.K.''

Her interview will be broadcast on ''60 Minutes'' on Sunday.

CBS said cadets at The Citadel had glorified Nazi and Klan symbols
for decades. The network plans to show photographs and videotapes
that it says show Nazi paraphernalia at the college.

A Citadel lawyer, Dawes Cooke, warned the network that any portrayal
of The Citadel, a state-supported military school, in a false
light ''will be met with swift and strong action.'' A Citadel
spokesman had no comment.

The Citadel's interim president, Clifton Poole, has ordered that an
investigation of the school's mottos and symbols be completed by
Sept. 1.

Four female cadets started at The Citadel in fall 1996; Ms. Mentavlos
and another woman quit, saying they had been hazed and harassed. They
did not mention Nazi symbols in depositions that have been made
public. Another cadet, Petra Lovetinska, said she was not aware of
any Nazi paraphernalia at the school."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Knights_of_the_Golden_Circle/

 

[Tnwoods]

You seem to be focused on the famous only, but there were thousands of rich farmers in the south, and it's not unreasonable that some of them hid money. Were any of these farmers KGC members?

Hi KK,

I am only asking, because the original statement was alluding to large treasure vaults being hidden after the war, not during, not before, but after.

And I don't believe TJ is talking about mason jars with some coins in them.

Yes, folks buried their stuff for safekeeping. Entire towns would bury their valuables if they were in Shermans path. And a lot of those cashe's are probably still there to be found. Probably a lot of them belonged to the KGC. But does that mean their stash was a KGC treasure?

If I were a boy scout, an buried some gold in the back yard for safe keeping, would that now be considered a boy scout treasure?

Same way of looking at it. Under this logic, everything hidden from 1860 to now could be considered a KGC treasure, and that is unrealistic.

So all I am asking about is the where the wealth come from that was allegedly buried after the war, that makes up these large vaults? As that is what the original statement alluded to.

It is really easy to make claims or statements about things. But you should have something to back it up that is traceable in fact. Something besides old Houk saying they are there. He had the maps, and he couldn't find any of it.

Hi C - you post mention the clan and NAZI symbols - which would not be the original Klan. The latter day Klan had nothing to do with the original. Except maybe the pointy white hats. The original Klan wasn't around for very long. Bedford Forrest is very traceable during and after the Klan period, right up to his death. He wasn't running around burying treasure. Anything the Klan did after the turn of the century is not KGC related.

 

[Walker Colt]

The original photo at the top of this thread is of the Knights of Pythia/Pithias, however it's said.

Masonic KT, they are wearing Templar baldrics.

 

[alec]

Not trying to argue, just repeating what I read. That EXACT same photo is in the Kansas Historical Society records as being the Knights Pythias and it is listed as a meeting that took place in Kansas. I have seen the same photo show up in Louisiana, also as a meeting that took place there.

 

[cccalco]

Not trying to argue, just repeating what I read. That EXACT same photo is in the Kansas Historical Society records as being the Knights Pythias and it is listed as a meeting that took place in Kansas. I have seen the same photo show up in Louisiana, also as a meeting that took place there.

I know you're also wondering, like the rest of us, how the exact same picture can be taken in Brownwood, Texas, Kansas and Louisiana.

 

[alec]

Of course I am. If it was in a newspaper that would be one thing but the Historical Society has an origninal print of the photo. You would like to think that the historical society had their facts right but you never know. Sometimes history is consider to be what people say it is and not what it actually was.

 

[cccalco]

The Knights of Pythias had different regalia.

http://www.wyomingtalesandtrails.com/cambria1a.html

Charter Class, Knights of Pythias, Cambria, 1893, photo by George R. Shane. Lower left, Episcopal Church, Cambria

"Social life was, thus, filled by fraternal lodges. In Cambria there were three, the Improved Order of Redmen, Odd Fellows, and Knights of Pythias. Seated in the front row are the installing officers representing the Grand Lodge. Included among the installing officers from Deadwood Lodge No. 5, K. of P., are Edward McDonald, Solomon Star, J. F. Edmonds, Robert Brown, and James Harris. The members of the Lodge are outside the public hall. The Hall housed, in addition to a lodge and meeting room on the second floor, a gymnasium and a pool hall. McDonald, Secretary of the Deadwood Lodge, was engaged in the saddlery business and served a mayor of Deadwood City for two terms and Sheriff of Lawrence County, Dakota Territory. It is alleged that during his term as sheriff he never had to draw his gun. He did, however, have to leap off a speeding train to catch on foot an escaping lunatic.

Solomon Star was not only active in the Knights of Pythias, but was a 33rd Degree Mason and served as the first Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of Montana. Additionally, he was the first Exalted Ruler of the Deadwood Elks Lodge and was a member of the Ancient Order of United Workmen. The Ancient Order was founded in 1868 and provided in addtion to the fraternity of lodges, life insurance benefits to its members. By 1895, the Order had more than 318,000 members. By 1948, the insurance became the dominating factor in the operation of the Order, thus, the Order changed its name and became an insurance company in name as well as fact. Solomon was a partner of Seth Bullock in Deadwood and served for twenty years as Clerk of Courts of Lawrence County. He also served as mayor of Deadwood City.

J. F. Edmonds at the time of the photo was a Past Grand Chancellor and Past Grand Prelate of the Dakota Territory Grand Lodge of the Knights of Pythias. A year later in 1894, Delaware Tribe No. 3 of the Improved Order of Redmen was instituted."

 

[cccalco]

Purported regalia of the KGC.

 

[cccalco]

If the Bavarian Illuminati were to exist today you wouldn't find them listed in the phone book as the Illuminati, they just couldn't get their work done. Surely IF the KGC were still operating they would not be publicly identifiable as the KGC. Here are a couple of sites were someone by that name does turn up though.

Knights of the Golden Circle - A small Tennessee Klan group
Anti-Defamation League
http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/kkk/active_group_2006.asp?
LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=4&item=kkk
Ku Klux Klan - Active Groups (by state)
Tennessee
Knights of the Golden Circle - A small Tennessee Klan group.

+++

New Templar Castle Chartered
Templar Castle
http://www.southern-cherokee.com/cokgc.html

The Christian Order of the Knights of the Golden Circle chartered the
Templar Castle of the Knights of the Golden Circle on October 13th,
2007 to commemorate the 700th anniversary of the arrest and persecution
of the Knights Templar in France by King Philip. The investure of seven
castle officers and the signing of the charter took place in the County
of http://www.southern-cherokee.com/cokgc.html

 

[Walker Colt]

Yeah I wouldn't put to much faith in that drawing from Dr. Hiatt's expose`published by C.O. Perrine. He had an axe to grind. Some believe he wrote the narrative of Edmund Wright also. Lots of similarities in the writing style. Can't forget his duel with Sir Ass and trap doors and the such....

Usually at the back of those books they include the ritual of the KGC which is from the Louisville Journal based on Pomfrey's expose`. Which we know to be accurate from the Union army dispatches. Based on that I would have to say Pomfrey is a more reliable source on the regalia of the KGC although its less romantic.

According to Pomfrey they wore blue flannel shirts, over vest and pantaloons. Officers were distinguised from eachother by the color of sash they wore and how they wore it (waist or shoulder). Also they carried a sword or musket based on there office in the castle.

 

[olepossum]

ok here we go the founding fathers of our country most were masons we all agree on that ok now a lot of people say that the nights templar became the masonic temple yes ok now as time went on the masons started to spread through out the us ok we can agree on that so whats to say that a large member portion of the kgc coulndt be fremason some of the kgc hand signs are the same as free mason wont say which ones and the free masons are a older orginazation than the kgc so whats to say that some free masons and some nights of columbis who is also older than the kgc didnt start the kgc there were a lot of southern catholics the masons were christian all believed in GOD start a group and call it the knights of the golden circle ok here we go again knights templar french catholic hence knights of columbus also catholic knights templar hence free masons and the oh so pbvious the skull and cross boners they were christian and catholic that leads us to the kgc all of theses gruops were secret orders based on religion politics and the millitary WOW HOLY CRAP THEY ALL USED SOME SORT OF PATHCHES AND HAND SHAKES THAT ALL WERE THE SAME ONE WAY OR THE OTHER FMKOCSCBKGC THEY ALL USED THE SAME INSIGNAS HANDSHAKES AND SOME FORM OF THE SAME NAME IN THE TITLE OF THIER SECRET GROUP WOW.

 

[Tnwoods]

None of those groups were secret Orders. Some of them do keep secrets - not the same thing.

To assume they are all connected because of secret handshakes, then I guess my fort when I was 10 would have been KGC as well.

This is why no one finds anything. Making connections where none exist. If just the ones that connect were followed - oh well, that would take the fun out of it.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I don't think anybody doubts that the farmers and others may have buried some of there own personal money but just becasue somebody may have been a member of the KGC and buried their own personal money doesn't mean they were burying money FOR the KGC. It simply means they were trying to keep what they had safe.

You seem to be focused on the famous only, but there were thousands of rich farmers in the south, and it's not unreasonable that some of them hid money. Were any of these farmers KGC members?

Hi KK,

I am only asking, because the original statement was alluding to large treasure vaults being hidden after the war, not during, not before, but after.

And I don't believe TJ is talking about mason jars with some coins in them.

Yes, folks buried their stuff for safekeeping. Entire towns would bury their valuables if they were in Shermans path. And a lot of those cashe's are probably still there to be found. Probably a lot of them belonged to the KGC. But does that mean their stash was a KGC treasure?

If I were a boy scout, an buried some gold in the back yard for safe keeping, would that now be considered a boy scout treasure?

Same way of looking at it. Under this logic, everything hidden from 1860 to now could be considered a KGC treasure, and that is unrealistic.

So all I am asking about is the where the wealth come from that was allegedly buried after the war, that makes up these large vaults? As that is what the original statement alluded to.

It is really easy to make claims or statements about things. But you should have something to back it up that is traceable in fact. Something besides old Houk saying they are there. He had the maps, and he couldn't find any of it.

Well, you guys seem to be making a lot of positive statements too. How can you be so sure that some of those rich old KGC members didn't pool their wealth and hide it? You said that one man claimed Jeff Davis had a large sum of money, but "except for that account" we have no proof. How is it you can pick and choose what to accept as evidence? Like I said, I don't think they hid millions in every town, and the smaller caches were probably the norm, and more likely to be found. But if some believe otherwise, how does that hinder me?

If the Boy Scouts had a common reason for hiding that gold in the back yard, then I would say it's a good possibility that it is a Boy Scout treasure.

 

[alec]

"Rich old KGC members" ? Which ones would that be? I wasn't aware anybody had a roster of all of the KGC members.

Again, I don't think anybody is disputing the fact that there are caches out there and some may have even been put in the ground by people who were once affiliated with the KGC. This does not make it a KGC cache, just a cache of personal money/items. I think TN's anology about the Boy Scouts stands true.

I think the big dispute here is about the alleged "depositories" that supposedly contain thousands of pounds of silver and gold. How does any of this hinder you? That would depend on what you are trying to do.

It seems the majority of the people here want to be left alone in their own beliefs and if what the believe is true then great and if it's not they don't want to know about it. Sounds a little strange to me as a treasure hunter but to each his own.

Good luck!

 

[Kentucky Kache]

"Rich old KGC members" ? Which ones would that be? I wasn't aware anybody had a roster of all of the KGC members.

Again, I don't think anybody is disputing the fact that there are caches out there and some may have even been put in the ground by people who were once affiliated with the KGC. This does not make it a KGC cache, just a cache of personal money/items. I think TN's anology about the Boy Scouts stands true.

I think the big dispute here is about the alleged "depositories" that supposedly contain thousands of pounds of silver and gold. How does any of this hinder you? That would depend on what you are trying to do.

It seems the majority of the people here want to be left alone in their own beliefs and if what the believe is true then great and if it's not they don't want to know about it. Sounds a little strange to me as a treasure hunter but to each his own.

Good luck!

YOU don't think... You wouldn't want someone to take away your right to think, now would you? Would you want someone to hound you for what you think?

To each his own is correct. Live and let live, hunt and let hunt.