Knights' Gold . . . 5,000 Gold Coins . . . Largest KGC Treasure Ever Discovered

[Peyton Manning]

I thought it is against the rules to sell unless you are a charter member?

 

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Treasure of Victoria Peak - Grab it through Amazon!

[etex]

: Rules are made to be broken

 

[Honest Samuel]

It seems that somebody is trying to sell a book. If there is treasures not in Connecticut, I am not looking for them.

 

[Craigwac]

Franklin, you might as well add the 5,000 gold coins found in Baltimore on Eden St. as another KGC "treasure vault." They were in a copper pot or can and were buried under the home of an "ardent Southern sympathizer" of the Civil War period Found in 1934 by two boys, the coins were turned over to the authorities, cleaned, counted, introduced into evidence at trial, catalogued, and sold to the public at auction. This is a no-doubt-about it find.

So those boys who found the coins didn't get to keep anything? That seems exceptionally unfair.

If I ever find a large cache, the last thing I would do is tell the government - or ANYONE for that matter! It's such a shame that most treasure hunters who publicize their finds have them taken away, because it discourages them from sharing the details of the search and we lose out on learning about those parts of history.

 

[Craigwac]

View attachment 1369934View attachment 1369935I have plenty of photos of gold coins and Ebay is full of them and the Internet is full of them. The photo of the gold coin proves nothing. I do not believe they had color photos in 1934. Here is an actual CSA Gold Coin Found and documented. You want to see some of the Mexican Silver Dollars?

Color photography did exist well before 1934, but it was still a very slow and impractical process so almost no one used it, basically it was experimental photography. Kodachrome was the first really practical color film, and it was introduced in 1935. Even then, it took quite a while to catch on. Didn't really see common usage until Kodak made some improvements to the process in the early 60's. Some photographers like Ansel Adams did some impressive work with the earlier versions before that. But the expense was so great even he relied on free film from Kodak. Not many journalists or hobby photographers would have been using color photography in 1934, that's for sure.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

The Southern Bivouac. Volume II. AUGUST, 1886. Number 3.

AFTER THE FALL OF RICHMOND.
By Basil W. Duke

IT became apparent, early in the spring of 1865, that General Lee could no longer hold Richmond, which was about to be completely invested.

His withdrawal from the Confederate capital and retreat into the interior of Virginia necessitated the immediate abandonment of all territory where troops had been stationed to keep open communication with the beleaguered city, and obliged all Confederate forces, wherever posted, whose operations could have any strategic connection with those of the army of Northern Virginia, to follow its movements and be prepared to second its action.

It was obvious that, even if further armed resistance to the Federal forces in the East was possible, the policy, so long adhered to, of maintaining determinate positions, defending cities, and seeking to permanently occupy and protect particular territory, would have to be abandoned. Every one realized that the last and only hope of the Confederacy was in the prompt concentration of the armies commanded by Generals Lee and Johnston, reinforced by every available man and musket.
…
It was determined that we should resume our march that night for Washington, Georgia, one or two days' march distant, and orders were issued by General Breckinridge that we move at midnight. About ten o'clock I received a message from General Breckinridge that he desired to see me immediately. I went to his quarters, and he informed me that the treasure which had been brought from Richmond was at the railroad depot, and that it was necessary to provide for its removal and transportation. He instructed me to procure a sufficient number of wagons to remove it, and to detail a guard of fifty men under a field officer for its protection. He further informed me that there was between five and six hundred thousand dollars in specie — he did not know the exact amount—the greater part gold. I must, he said, personally superintend its transfer from the cars to the wagons.

This was not a very agreeable duty. I represented that if no one knew just what sum of money was there, it was rather an unpleasant responsibility to impose on the party who was to take charge of it. I would have no opportunity to count it, nor possible means of ascertaining whether the entire amount was turned over to me. He responded that all that had been considered, and bade me proceed to obey the order. I detailed fifty picked men as guard, and put them under command of Colonel Theophilus Steele and four of my best subalterns.

I obtained six wagons, and, proceeding to the depot, began at once the task of removing the treasure. It was in charge of some of the former treasury clerks, and was packed in money belts, shotbags, a few small iron chests, and all sorts of boxes, some of them of the frailest description.

In this shape I found it loaded in open boxcars. I stationed sentries at the doors, and rummaging through the cars by the faint light of a few tallow candles gathered up all that was shown me, or that I could find. Rather more than an hour was consumed in making the transfer from the cars to the wagons, and after the latter had been started off and had gotten half a mile away, Lieutenant John B. Cole, one of the officers of the guard, rode up to me with a pine box, which may have held two or three thousand dollars in gold, on the pommel of his saddle. He had remained after the others had left, and ferreting about in a car which we thought we had thoroughly searched had discovered this box stuck in a corner and closely covered up with a piece of sacking. On the next day, General Breckinridge directed me to increase the guard to two hundred men, and take charge of it in person. I suggested that instead of composing it entirely of men from my brigade, it should be constituted of details from all five. I thought this the best plan to allay any little feeling of jealousy that might arise, and insure a more perfect vigilance, as I felt persuaded that these details would all carefully watch each other. My suggestion was adopted. Nearly the entire guard was kept constantly on duty, day and night, and a majority of the whole escort was generally about the wagons at every halt, closely inspecting the guard.

At the Savannah River, Mr. Davis ordered that the silver coin, amounting to one hundred and eight or ten thousand dollars, be paid to the troops in partial discharge of the arrears of pay due them. The quarter-masters of the several brigades were engaged during the entire night in counting out the money, and a throng of soldiers surrounded the little cabin where they were dividing "the pile " into their respective quotas until early dawn. The sight of so much money seemed to banish sleep. My brigade received thirty-two dollars per capita, officers and men sharing alike. General Breckinridge was paid that sum, and, for the purpose, was borne on the roll of the brigade. On the next day, at Washington, I turned over the residue of the treasure to Mr. M. H. Clarke, acting Treasurer of the Confederate States, and experienced a feeling of great relief.

...

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[franklin]

The Southern Bivouac. Volume II. AUGUST, 1886. Number 3.

AFTER THE FALL OF RICHMOND.
By Basil W. Duke

IT became apparent, early in the spring of 1865, that General Lee could no longer hold Richmond, which was about to be completely invested.

His withdrawal from the Confederate capital and retreat into the interior of Virginia necessitated the immediate abandonment of all territory where troops had been stationed to keep open communication with the beleaguered city,
and obliged all Confederate forces, wherever posted, whose operations could have any strategic connection with those of the army of Northern Virginia, to follow its movements and be prepared to second its action.

It was obvious that, even if further armed resistance to the Federal forces in the East was possible, the policy, so long adhered to, of maintaining determinate positions, defending cities, and seeking to permanently occupy and protect particular territory, would have to be abandoned. Every one realized that the last and only hope of the Confederacy was in the prompt concentration of the armies commanded by Generals Lee and Johnston, reinforced by every available man and musket.
…
It was determined that we should resume our march that night for Washington, Georgia, one or two days' march distant, and orders were issued by General Breckinridge that we move at midnight. About ten o'clock I received a message from General Breckinridge that he desired to see me immediately. I went to his quarters, and he informed me that the treasure which had been brought from Richmond was at the railroad depot, and that it was necessary to provide for its removal and transportation. He instructed me to procure a sufficient number of wagons to remove it, and to detail a guard of fifty men under a field officer for its protection. He further informed me that there was between five and six hundred thousand dollars in specie — he did not know the exact amount—the greater part gold. I must, he said, personally superintend its transfer from the cars to the wagons.

This was not a very agreeable duty. I represented that if no one knew just what sum of money was there, it was rather an unpleasant responsibility to impose on the party who was to take charge of it. I would have no opportunity to count it, nor possible means of ascertaining whether the entire amount was turned over to me. He responded that all that had been considered, and bade me proceed to obey the order. I detailed fifty picked men as guard, and put them under command of Colonel Theophilus Steele and four of my best subalterns.

I obtained six wagons, and, proceeding to the depot, began at once the task of removing the treasure. It was in charge of some of the former treasury clerks, and was packed in money belts, shotbags, a few small iron chests, and all sorts of boxes, some of them of the frailest description.

In this shape I found it loaded in open boxcars. I stationed sentries at the doors, and rummaging through the cars by the faint light of a few tallow candles gathered up all that was shown me, or that I could find. Rather more than an hour was consumed in making the transfer from the cars to the wagons, and after the latter had been started off and had gotten half a mile away, Lieutenant John B. Cole, one of the officers of the guard, rode up to me with a pine box, which may have held two or three thousand dollars in gold, on the pommel of his saddle. He had remained after the others had left, and ferreting about in a car which we thought we had thoroughly searched had discovered this box stuck in a corner and closely covered up with a piece of sacking. On the next day, General Breckinridge directed me to increase the guard to two hundred men, and take charge of it in person. I suggested that instead of composing it entirely of men from my brigade, it should be constituted of details from all five. I thought this the best plan to allay any little feeling of jealousy that might arise, and insure a more perfect vigilance, as I felt persuaded that these details would all carefully watch each other. My suggestion was adopted. Nearly the entire guard was kept constantly on duty, day and night, and a majority of the whole escort was generally about the wagons at every halt, closely inspecting the guard.

At the Savannah River, Mr. Davis ordered that the silver coin, amounting to one hundred and eight or ten thousand dollars, be paid to the troops in partial discharge of the arrears of pay due them. The quarter-masters of the several brigades were engaged during the entire night in counting out the money, and a throng of soldiers surrounded the little cabin where they were dividing "the pile " into their respective quotas until early dawn. The sight of so much money seemed to banish sleep. My brigade received thirty-two dollars per capita, officers and men sharing alike. General Breckinridge was paid that sum, and, for the purpose, was borne on the roll of the brigade. On the next day, at Washington, I turned over the residue of the treasure to Mr. M. H. Clarke, acting Treasurer of the Confederate States, and experienced a feeling of great relief.

...

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

I have read that over a hundred times what is your point? You do know the $108000 in silver did not belong to the CSA? How do you suppose it ended up being paid to the troops.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

franklin:

Now, perhaps, you have read it 101 times. For others it is probably the first.

The article describes how it ended up being paid to the troops. What was left of the Confederate Army wasn't able to continue to transport and guard it. Kept together it was, apparently, more trouble than it was worth. The end of the War was obvious, the troops needed to be paid, so the solution presented itself.

While I find the entire account very interesting, of singular importance is one line: "General Breckinridge was paid that sum, and, for the purpose, was borne on the roll of the brigade."

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Didn't the REBS have loans that they were gonna pay back..? The Brits, French...?

 

[Old Bookaroo]

The CSA and the individual states sold bonds. The Confederate government credited a remarkably complex bond based on the price of cotton (and, I believe, the value of gold) after the war was over.

Ten of the 11 states paid their bond holders. Mississippi didn't. In the 1980's foreign investors (particularly in England) became interested in buying state bonds. Baring Brothers said they'd purchase bonds from 49 states but not Mississippi. They'd been burned by them once and didn't see any reason to take another chance.

Here's an interesting link with another take:

https://www.globalfinancialdata.com/gfdblog/?p=2274

If the CSA had tremendous reserves of gold and silver, why did it need to borrow money? Why was their army dependent on the Union Army for supplies?

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[ECS]

...

While I find the entire account very interesting, of singular importance is one line: "General Breckinridge was paid that sum, and, for the purpose, was borne on the roll of the brigade."

What is interesting to note are the events at Chennault Plantation , Washington , Georgia (the Union tortured that family seeking information on the CSA treasury), and the amount of gold and Mexican silver dollars carried by CSA Se of State Judah P Benjamin, CSA Sec Of War Gen John C Breckinridge, and Davis's nephew, CSA Capt John Taylor Wood as they escaped the Union through Florida and then out of the country.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

I would agree there is considerable evidence the Chennault Plantation plant happened.

What happened since to it remains less clear.

As to what those other gentlemen carried while on the run south - that is far more murky.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Rebel - KGC]

REBELS were given the loans, at the beginning of the CONFEDERATE WAR; "1980's foreign investors"...?

 

[franklin]

REBELS were given the loans, at the beginning of the CONFEDERATE WAR; "1980's foreign investors"...?

There was the Erlanger Loan, there was another loan for $150 Million Dollars and there was a loan from England August of 1864 which historians in Richmond in 1947 said never happened but I know it did happen as the gold bars where shipped and buried in Tennessee. There are 889 large gold bricks as a matter of fact. There were taxes collected every year in the millions and even hundreds of millions of dollars. Then there were export fees import fees. They ran a better tax system than the Yankees did. I have all of the documents of the CSA Treasury Department. They also keep mining gold and melting them into bars, they even had a whole division of engineers searching out other gold and silver mines. What do you think happened to all of the gold and silver and the $19 million in gold specie in the Southern Banks before the war began. Then there was trade for at least a four year period and the money from agriculture especially cotton valued in the hundreds of millions even billions of dollars. Where is all of that money? The CSA and the KGC put away hundreds of tons of gold and silver in bars and specie. I know of at least $1.5 Trillion Dollars in bullion not counting numismatic value on the East Coast and a like amount in the Southwest and West. They also had assets all over the world. To believe that the CSA had only $513,000 heading south chased by the Yankees is nothing but historians yarns believing the South was broke, far from it the South had more riches than the North before, during and after the War. Some of it will be recovered in the near future. My partner and I found 18 coins in 2008 from the CSA Treasury and some of you out there now own them and you have a certificate of authenticity. Wait till the millions of coins and gold bars are recovered?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

WHEW!

 

[Old Bookaroo]

franklin: The 889 large gold bricks were a loan?

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[ECS]

I would agree there is considerable evidence the Chennault Plantation plant happened.

What happened since to it remains less clear.

As to what those other gentlemen carried while on the run south - that is far more murky...

It was enough for them to book passage to England and establish themselves.

 

[franklin]

franklin: The 889 large gold bricks were a loan?

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

What I have says it was a Grant of 889 large gold bricks. I don't know the weight or variety but being large I do not believe they are of the 26 pounders. I think maybe they are about 40 or 80 pound each and the value then was around $11 Million Dollars the other $4 Million went for ships mostly ironclads. Today the $11 Million would be worth about $550 Million.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

franklin: Thank you for your reply! A grant? That is a handsome present, indeed! What would the Confederacy have used those gold bricks for? If the gold came from overseas wouldn't it have been far more beneficial to the cause to keep it there to purchase needed supplies of all types?

It seems a tremendous waste to import that much gold, take it across the country from one war-ravaged area to another, and then hide it.

I didn't know the CSA had foreign-built ironclads (if I read your post correctly). I am familiar with several "conversions" from US navy vessels to rams and what amounted to floating batteries - with varying degrees of success. Most of them were, to put it mildly, under-powered - too much weight for their engines. The CSA simply lacked the industrial capacity to manufacture efficient vessels. I believe the CSS Virginia ​was at least partially armored with railroad rails. I haven't read up on that it quite some time.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

There is some very interesting information on the very fragile, inflationary, paper-based finances of the Confederate (and various state) government(s) in this book. I won't quote all the relevant passages - they go on for pages. I did note the 3,000,000 pound loan (assuming $5 to the pound) netted the government approximately $11,550,00. The source accounts for it - $6,000,000 to purchase supplies and $6,000,000 in a failed attempt to "bull" the bonds. What is it they used to say on Wall Street? "Never fight the tape."

From the outset the Confederate Treasury relied mainly upon loans. The first issue of bonds was authorised in February, 1861, and was known as the Fifteen-million Loan. Interest at 8 per cent, was secured on the export duty on cotton. The government obtained the desired $15,000,000 in specie, principally through the generous help of the New Orleans and Charleston banks ; the proceeds were sent abroad for the purchase of war supplies. The amount, in addition to the funds seized in the United States' mints and custom-houses, constituted practically the only supply of specie that the government ever secured. The loan was the only successful one of a long series attempted during the war…

As the growing scarcity of cotton drove up its price in the Liverpool market, from 7d. a lb. at the outbreak of the war to nearly twice that amount in the early months of 1862, and to 2s. 1d. before the end of that year, the desire of the Confederate government to realise upon its accumulated stock of cotton led it to approach some foreign bankers who might be willing to enter into the speculation involved. The banking firm of Erlanger agreed in January, 1863, to guarantee a loan of £3,000,000 at 77. Interest at 8 per cent., as well as an annual amortisation of 1/26 of the principal, was payable in gold and in Europe. The bonds were payable in cotton at 6d. a lb.; delivery to be made within the Confederacy. Six months after the declaration of peace this exchange was to cease ; and the bonds were thereafter payable at their face value in gold. The bonds were favourably received and subscribed for at 90, but they soon began to decline, and continued to fall till the end of the war. The news of Federal victories drove them down, the rumours of repulses of the blockading fleet temporarily drove them up. The bonds were quoted at a much higher figure than were other Confederate issues, owing to the mistaken notion of the security offered by the large amount of cotton held by the Confederate government. After the war they continued to be quoted, and there was talk of urging the United States government to assume the debt. So late as 1876 and even 1884—5 the hopes of the unlucky bondholders were revived ; but of course neither the Federal government nor those of the States felt bound to assume the obligations of the defunct Confederacy. The loss to the bondholders was not balanced by a corresponding gain to the Confederate government. The commission charged by Erlanger for floating the loan and paying the interest charges was large; moreover, $6,000,000 were wasted by the Confederate agents in a futile effort to "bull" the bonds in the foreign market. The loan netted for the government about $6,000,000, which were spent in buying ships and war supplies, a large part of which never reached their destination…

THE CAMBRIDGE MODERN HISTORY PLANNED BY the late LORD ACTON LL.D. EDITED BY A. W. WARD Litt.D. G. W. PROTHERO Litt.D. STANLEY LEATHES M.A
VOLUME VII THE UNITED STATES (1903)