KGC and freemasons the same thing???

[L.C. BAKER]

KGC...? NO! OAK...? YES! ALL "State Righters"! Certainly NOT "taught" in Lodge, Chapter, Council, nor Commandery. All independent R & I... OR! ASK 1 2 BE 1.

When you say was not taught in lodge.....consider that if they were members of both K.G.C. and Freemasons, there were two lodges meeting. One met in the masonic lodge (simi-public) and the other met under a cloak in secrecy because it's members faced death by hanging if they were found out.

L.C.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

When you say was not taught in lodge.....consider that if they were members of both K.G.C. and Freemasons, there were two lodges meeting. One met in the masonic lodge (simi-public) and the other met under a cloak in secrecy because it's members faced death by hanging if they were found out.

L.C.

Re. O.A.K. post-CONFEDERATE WAR... MOSTLY composed of RICH, WEALTHY "OLD" MEN... State-Righters; They wanted to help "make" AMERICA, going WEST! HENCE, they made MORE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$! The "SOUTH"/State-Righters"... FINALLY won "the WAR". And yes, some O.A.K. guys WERE high level Freemasons, Odd Fellows, etc. who met @ 4 times a year (HQ).

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Re. O.A.K. post-CONFEDERATE WAR... MOSTLY composed of RICH, WEALTHY "OLD" MEN... State-Righters; They wanted to help "make" AMERICA, going WEST! HENCE, they made MORE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$! The "SOUTH"/State-Righters"... FINALLY won "the WAR". And yes, some O.A.K. guys WERE high level Freemasons, Odd Fellowws, etc. who met @ 4 times a year (HQ).

The O.A.K. was the offspring of the K.G.C. and others from the next generation that carried out the plans of their forefathers and mentors in the K.G.C.! As far as the states righters go....when a prospect joined the K.G.C. they didn't ask him how he felt about "States Rights"....they asked him if he was #1 "FIRM ON THE NEGRO" The Freemasons like the K.G.C. were a secret organization, as in they both had closed meetings. The Freemasons had a membership roster and they kept written minutes of old and new business as well as future plans for the organization. The K.G.C. was a secret organization that had no written minutes or roster because it was a treasonous organization that was controlling the country. To gain control of the country they only referred to themselves as Freemasons. Take for instance Franklin Pierce....he was a known Freemason, and an unknown member of the K.G.C. as were many other members that were in place in the U.S. Government. Just my two cents.

L.C. Good stuff Rebel

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The O.A.K. was the offspring of the K.G.C. and others from the next generation that carried out the plans of their forefathers and mentors in the K.G.C.! As far as the states righters go....when a prospect joined the K.G.C. they didn't ask him how he felt about "States Rights"....they asked him if he was #1 "FIRM ON THE NEGRO" The Freemasons like the K.G.C. were a secret organization, as in they both had closed meetings. The Freemasons had a membership roster and they kept written minutes of old and new business as well as future plans for the organization. The K.G.C. was a secret organization that had no written minutes or roster because it was a treasonous organization that was controlling the country. To gain control of the country they only referred to themselves as Freemasons. Take for instance Franklin Pierce....he was a known Freemason, and an unknown member of the K.G.C. as were many other members that were in place in the U.S. Government. Just my two cents.

L.C. Good stuff Rebel

Start thinking in terms of Order of AMERICAN Knights, post-CONFEDERATE WAR... & STATE(S) RIGHTS!

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Start thinking in terms of Order of AMERICAN Knights, post-CONFEDERATE WAR... & STATE(S) RIGHTS!

That is a point on the timeline for the organization that had new direction and new directors for sure Rebel. Do you have anyone in mind specific or a specific operation you would like to discuss?

L.C.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

That is a point on the timeline for the organization that had new direction and new directors for sure Rebel. Do you have anyone in mind specific or a specific operation you would like to discuss?

L.C.

LOL! Look into the WEALTHY, RICH old men of NYC; and a US SENATOR from Nebraska, who later opposed them (they were RIVALS), building transportation, etc. WEST!

 

[L.C. BAKER]

LOL! Look into the WEALTHY, RICH old men of NYC; and a US SENATOR from Nebraska, who later opposed them (they were RIVALS), building transportation, etc. WEST!

Most of those wealthy old rich men in NYC were involved with the Tammany Society until they had a falling out about who was going to be the big boss. S.F. Nuckolls and J.S. Morton and Benjamin Ficklin all had ties to New York businessmen that just happen to be Scotch Irish and who were all firm on the Negro. A lot of old money there....money that probably had foundations in Ireland clear back to the Ulster Plantation who backed James Town and Plymouth. The bulk of that money was made on the largest commodity traded in the day, not sugar or tobacco or cotton, it was SLAVES. They had deep enough pockets to corupt about anyone they wanted....or kill them to get them out of the way.

L.C.

 

[paratrooper]

If you want to get deeper into this think about these 2 things. 1) Prince Hall Lodges. and 2) Who killed Joseph Smith and why.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

If you want to get deeper into this think about these 2 things. 1) Prince Hall Lodges. and 2) Who killed Joseph Smith and why.

IF YOU know, please share... THANKS!

 

[paratrooper]

IF YOU know, please share... THANKS!

Before the Revolutionary War there were British Lodges here in America. One (I believe in Mass.) allowed a free black man named Prince Hall to be raised. He then brought other freemen to the Lodge who were also raised. Remember that this was all controlled by UGLE (United Grand Lodge of England). Then for some reason they were allowed to MEET as a Lodge on their own. I "believe" that no charter was issued. As time went on they raised many more freemen and became known as Prince Hall Lodges. They exist today and have Grand Lodges in their states . Some states recognize them and some don't. They are usually referred to as "Prince Hall Affiliates" and I have heard black Masons that are members refer to it as such. Many forums also use the designations of "Mainstream" and "PHA". Now for Joseph Smith. He was raised in Illinois in a Lodge chartered by Grand Lodge of Illinois. It was also said that he and his followers (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints "Mormons") which were living in a group outside of town were "filching" cattle since as some said "they felt entitled to do that since they were special". I make no judgments on that but it is part of the history. Bearing this in mind it is easy to see why many locals were against them. Stage two. It seems that he also started a Lodge for his followers and raised about 275 Mormons to the status of Third Degree Mason. He did this with the help of other local Masons that were seemingly unaware that they had NO charter from GL of Illinois. GL was understandably upset with this situation. This seemed to turn the tide totally against the Mormons and a small war ensued. It is said that the local MM's that assisted in those raisings made it a point to kill Joseph Smith in order to get back into the good graces of GL of Illinois. He was replaced by Brigham Young as Prophet as they fled west. Those are the stories as I know them.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

OK, THANKS!

 

[senior deacon]

Paratrooper you are correct with the Prince Hall. However you are not correct about Joseph Smith. The reason was a power struggle within the church. It had little to do with the lodge itself it other than they occurred at the same time. The Grand Lodge of Illinois found out that the lodge at Navoo, Illinois were making masons on sight and there were other irregularities. A investigation was held and the lodge at Quincy,Illinois was sent to receive all lodge materials. Bodley lodge #1 from Quincy arrived and collected the lodge materials. As they were leaving a mob appeared and a riot broke out. The lodge hall was set on fire and Joseph Smith climbed to the roof and was shot by someone in the crowd. I have read the accounts of it from the report of Bodley lodge as well as the reports from other bystanders. The masons from Bodley lodge tried to help Smith but to no avail. The set of officers jewels in Bodley lodge are the ones from the Mormon lodge at Navoo. I have seen them myself. I went to college in Quincy and was active in De Molay and was told this story many times by the older lodge members. This was their big claim to fame.

Think the bigger story is what part the Mormon's played in the O.A.K. in the movement west!!!

Senior Deacon

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Paratrooper you are correct with the Prince Hall. However you are not correct about Joseph Smith. The reason was a power struggle within the church. It had little to do with the lodge itself it other than they occurred at the same time. The Grand Lodge of Illinois found out that the lodge at Navoo, Illinois were making masons on sight and there were other irregularities. A investigation was held and the lodge at Quincy,Illinois was sent to receive all lodge materials. Bodley lodge #1 from Quincy arrived and collected the lodge materials. As they were leaving a mob appeared and a riot broke out. The lodge hall was set on fire and Joseph Smith climbed to the roof and was shot by someone in the crowd. I have read the accounts of it from the report of Bodley lodge as well as the reports from other bystanders. The masons from Bodley lodge tried to help Smith but to no avail. The set of officers jewels in Bodley lodge are the ones from the Mormon lodge at Navoo. I have seen them myself. I went to college in Quincy and was active in De Molay and was told this story many times by the older lodge members. This was their big claim to fame.

Think the bigger story is what part the Mormon's played in the O.A.K. in the movement west!!!

Senior Deacon

weren't there some lies made up about horse thieving and such?

 

[L.C. BAKER]

After Joseph Smith's death in 1844, continuing violence from surrounding non-Mormons forced most Latter-Day Saints to leave Nauvoo. Most of these refugees, led by Brigham Young, eventually emigrated to the Great Salt Lake Valley. In 1849,

Important facts not disclosed. During this period The Democrats ran Lewis Cass of Michigan for President in 1848. Lewis Cass had sent Thomas B. Cumming whom he knew sense he was 12 years old at Michigan University to Keokuk Iowa after a safe stent in the Mexican war. It was just a hop and skip from Nauvoo. It was there that that Cummings was to take over the press and support Cass and the over-all K.G.C. plan by swaying the vote with the one sided very opinionated press of which it only took a short time for Cumming to own and edit. It is a mirror image of what the K.G.C. was going to do in 1854 at Nebraska city....TWO STRATEGIC SPOTS ON TWO MAJOR RIVERS THE MISSISSIPPI AND THE MISSOURI. They would loose the grip eventually in and around Keokuk and set their sights on Nebraska City, but Cummings had a plan of his own about Omaha after the surprising death of Francis Burt (MURDERED BY RADICAL REPUBLICANS THAT BACKED JOHN BROWN) thrust Cumming into the Secretary and Acting Governor spot giving him the power as THE most powerful politician in Nebraska Territory(power the K.G.C. did not intend for him to have) to choose where the transcontinental railroad would come to....making him and his old partner rich with money that he would never spend. Double-cross the K.G.C. and you are sure to die from a short illness...sometimes a very short illness.

L.C.

P.S. the Mormon trail runs right smack dab through this place. There are even small places the stopped and stayed at like Manti Iowa just across the river from Nebraska city near Farragut Iowa where they decided to stay and do their own thing.

 

[paratrooper]

Those sure were "interesting" times.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Those sure were "interesting" times.

It's the unused information that is sometimes the most interesting! I read about a man that was sued for $6.85 by a merchant that he owed the money to. He did not have the money for a lawyer and he knew he owed the money SOoooo. He caught a skunk and spent the night handling the critter. When he entered the court room the next morning, it didn't take long for him to clear it out all except for the judge and the merchant who was suing him. Finally after the skunked defendant sat down and put his arm around the merchant he owed and said "don't you worry we will get this worked out somehow.." the merchant could hold his breath no more and he ran gagging from the court room. Of course the judge had to dismiss the charges....CASE CLOSED!

L.C.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

It's the unused information that is sometimes the most interesting! I read about a man that was sued for $6.85 by a merchant that he owed the money to. He did not have the money for a lawyer and he knew he owed the money SOoooo. He caught a skunk and spent the night handling the critter. When he entered the court room the next morning, it didn't take long for him to clear it out all except for the judge and the merchant who was suing him. Finally after the skunked defendant sat down and put his arm around the merchant he owed and said "don't you worry we will get this worked out somehow.." the merchant could hold his breath no more and he ran gagging from the court room. Of course the judge had to dismiss the charges....CASE CLOSED!

L.C.

HA! That'll do it...

 

[senior deacon]

There is more that one way to skin a skunk. Lols Remember at that time the big cities in Iowa were along three rivers the Mississippi, Missouri, and the Des Moines River. At the time the capital was in Iowa City but the real seat of power was in Muscatine,Iowa the home town of T.S. Parvin the Secretary of Samuel Kirkwood first governor of the Iowa territory. Samuel Kirkwood first settled in Muscatine and never left. A capital was built in Iowa City but was soon moved to Des Moines later. The University of Iowa was given the old Capital building by the board of regents headed by T.S. Parvin. This building is the keystone of the university to this day.

There was only one battle fought in the Civil war in Iowa near the city of Croton,Iowa. It was called the battle of Athens,Missouri. Battle of Athens (1861) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia This was early in the war and the people of Eastern Missouri would not fight any more but the western part of the state were more rebellious. The Mormons had a route across the southern part of the state. look at the town of Lamoni they even established a college there to educate there young people. The city of Wyoming in Otoe county in Nebraska was a jump off point to them heading for Salt Lake City, Utah. It is less 10 miles from Nebraska City. Think L.C. may be on the right track.

Senior Deacon