KGC and freemasons the same thing???

[cccalco]

cccalco,
I am not sure if you made a mistake when typing your second sentence but it seems to contradict your quote.

Thank you, and yes I did make a mistake because it should have been written "Walker is dead on. There is no Mason higher than the 3rd degree Master Mason." True, there are the often called "higher degrees" but these were all created by a 3rd degree Master Mason.

 

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[Hal Croves]

paratrooper,
If you don't mind, please, to whom was that last post directed?

"Many people that do not become Masons do so because they know in their heart of hearts that they are not worthy." While that may or may not be true, I honestly never thought that I would read something like this written by an enlightened Mason.

 

[paratrooper]

paratrooper,
If you don't mind, please, to whom was that last post directed?

"Many people that do not become Masons do so because they know in their heart of hearts that they are not worthy." While that may or may not be true, I honestly never thought that I would read something like this written by an enlightened Mason.

It is directed at those that for no just reason choose to bash Masonry. Many people bash a much larger than themselves entity thinking that it grants then some type of status. They believe that it puts them in the "same league" as that much larger entity therefore granting them more status than they would deserve.

 

[Hal Croves]

paratrooper,
And the rest of us who ask questions with respect and courtesy? Are we in that "same league"? I have asked a very specific question about those Masons that were pro-slavery, and the few that were members of the KGC. I agree that being disrespectful to any person/group (religious or other) is a sign of insecurity, but it may simply come from a lack of understanding... which is why people ask questions (hopefully intelligent ones). I think that we nonmembers appreciate the insight and honesty more than you and other Masons may believe. If you have an opinion about my question, it would be worth reading. The brotherhood may even win over a few converts.
Anyway, thank you.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Re: KGC and Freemasons the same thing

HC, it is good that you asked questions... you are searching. My answer is that in THAT "period of time" it was a "Southern thing", a "State Rights thing". The CONFEDERATE WAR was brother against brother (family thing) and brother against brother (fraternal thing); HA! It was Christian Church against Christian Church thing! WC & paratrooper are correct... AND! In the "cloudy MISTS of time" (1820's) we also had the ANTI-MASON political party, of which J. Q. Adams MAY have been involved with. ALSO! We listen to our state Grand Lodges and follow "State Rights"... even TODAY, the lodges are segregated along "color lines"; tho, there are "mixed" lodges, which I am OK with... I think DC Federal # 1 (F.A.A.M.) is "mixed". AND! The 3rd Degree of MASTER MASON... IS the HIGHEST degree... w/o it you CAN'T BE a York Rite (Royal Arch Mason, KT) nor Scottish Rite, which is more ESOTERIC! Coffee?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Re: KGC and Freemasons the same thing

AND! We look at Bro., Past Master, PRESIDENT George Washington; he was also YORK RITE. PLUS! He owned MANY slaves...

 

[Hal Croves]

Rebel-KGC,
Thank you for posting your explanation. Yes, searching to be sure.
Also, about J.Q.A., I understood it that he WAS involved in the Anti-Masonic party... along with a few Masons that held varying alliances. I will have another look. Thank you!

President Washington understood the nature of slavery. “To sell the overplus I cannot, because I am principled against this kind of traffic in the human species. To hire them out is almost as bad, because they could not be disposed of in families to any advantage, and to disperse the families I have an aversion.What then is to be done? Something must or I shall be ruined…” GW 1799 (Hirschfield,p74) History may have been much kinder to us had GW set the example in his lifetime. One of those lost opportunities I guess.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Re: KGC and Freemasons the same thing

 

[paratrooper]

Things were different in Washingtons time. Just learning how he died shows us something.

 

[Hal Croves]

paratrooper,
"Things were different in Washington's time." For most of us non-Masons, that is the question. Looking back in history (American) it is not difficult to see the influence of Freemasonry on U.S. government... esp. in Washington's time. I just think that people in a democracy want to know if any of that "influence" remains, two hundred + years later. It is not "conspiratorial" to ask uncomfortable questions.

"Just learning how he died shows us something." Is it the quickness of his death ("due two poor doctoring") or the controversy that surrounds his secretary? What do you mean? The topic seems complicated by the fact that three of the four men caring for the dying President were Masons... and the forth, T. Lear became one a few years later. For me, the connections don't suggest any wrong doing, but it does show a level of Masonic "influence" on the President.

 

[paratrooper]

He died from a common practice of the day known as "blood letting".

 

[Hal Croves]

President Washington's condition (whatever it may have been) was aggravated by "blood letting" but I don't believe that it was the cause of his death. This link is worth reading, paints a positive image of the Masons treating the President, and may even help dispel some of the rumors. Lear is the only person in that group of four with a questionable character. He certainly used the President.

http://open.salon.com/blog/michael_hebert/2009/02/16/what_killed_george_washington

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Re: KGC and Freemasons the same thing

BACK to KGC "era"; by then, the lodges WERE more "cohesive"... AND! IF... FreeMasons WERE "involved"... it would PROBABLY have to be "The Brotherhood" from the "Blue Lodges" (Master Masons), "Red Lodges" (Royal Arch Masons), "Black Lodges" (Knights Templar), "Purple Lodges" (Scottish Rite Masons)... according to VARIOUS state Grand Lodges, "back then". IF... Bro. Albert Pike WAS in the KGC, it would have to be MOSTLY "Purple Lodges" (Scottish Rite Masons), as HE was the "Head" of the SOUTHERN Jurisdiction; THEY were (THEN), more into Masonic Astronomy, use of GEMATRIA, "Masonic" Symbols. NOT, as part of a "Slave EMPIRE", which even goes back to the CLOUDY MISTS of time (@ 1801 or so), when Vice-Prez Aaron Burr wanted to be EMPEROR of a "slave-owning" EMPIRE in the American South West & PROBABLY Mexico. Burr WAS a FreeMason, Prez Jefferson was not; Burr was found GUILTY of Treason, by Chief Justice John Marshall (a FreeMason!). Coffee?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Re: KGC and Freemasons the same thing

THIS is interesting... knightsofthegoldencircle.webs.com AND! forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=277670.0 THAT was/is a "thread" by Texas Jay... KGC AFTER THE CIVIL WAR GREAT "Thread"! Coffee?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Ah well... in TJ's "thread" was info on the FIRST DEGREE (Military) of the KGC. From the Castroville, TX CASTLE... NOT a LODGE! ANYWAY... "google" it, MAY find IT! Coffee?

 

[Hal Croves]

Rebel-KGC,
Thank you. I will read through both sites. One thing that you and other Masons on this site might help me with. There have been several locations found in the Superstitions, each with large (app. 30-40' in length) symbols carved into the soil. These symbols (alchemical?) were intended to be viewed from above, but to my disappointment, perhaps not from higher than the highest mountain in the surrounding area... so, not necessarily from an airplane or aerostat. Would this have been a means of marking important mining sites used by any order of Freemasons... at any point in history? The symbols are real, but I have never read an explanation as to who may have created them. I have posted an example in the Lost Dutchman's Forum... under "Stone Charts of the Superstitions".

What I find most amazing is the obvious rivalry between certain Masonic groups.. even to the point of war (in Mexico) circa the US invasion. So, while the Freemasons may not be a "secret society" there were (are?) secrets unique to the individual lodges or branches. A splinter group with "Masonic" ties seems plausible... for example the KGC.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

MAYBE; don't know much about "The SUPER(S)"... MY guess in that binocular, telescope, or even a balloon with a surveyor in a basket COULD have been used. Balloons WERE used by the SIGNAL CORPS/SECRET SERVICE (MAINLY Yanks) during the CONFEDERATE WAR, (LIMITED USE). "They" MAY have ALSO been FreeMasons...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Re: KGC & American South West...

Reviewing my memory about KGC; there WAS something about the "4 Corners area" for the King & Queen Treasures. If YOU have a QUEEN VALLEY in the "Super(s)" mountain, MY guess is that the QUEEN Treasure is nearby... where the HEART carving is. HEART is a BIG "sign" for KGC depository... AND! I reckon the KING Treasure (depository) is ALSO in AZ; BUT! Look out for FED-Land for US Military Practice Ranges (LDM?). KGC utilized Masonic symbols, Spanish symbols, and the BEST source of treasure signs for THAT "area" is HAWKEYE, and the Treasure Hunters University. He had a web-site, once; I used his BASIC premise for Beale Treasure Hunting in Virginia; and the Swift Silver Mines in OLD Virginia (Kentucky, West Virginia, SW Virginia, etc). The KGC named their depositories by the cards (King, Queen, Jack, Joker, etc) & I think the Beale Treasure/CSA Treasury would be the JOKER Treasure ...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

GREAT idea, "jr."; YOUR info is MORE "esoteric"' than what ppl here want; MAINLY based on the Scottish Rite (A & ASR). MAIN study for YOU would be 32nd Degree.

 

[Hal Croves]

I had to think about your last post. "Esoteric". It seems to have several meanings (or degrees of) when applying it to Masonry. This writer uses "esoteric accretions" to describe Masonry's potential for reinventing itself.

"As mentioned earlier, between the mid-eighteenth and the beginnings of the nineteenth century a multitude of occult orders rose from Masonry. Each of these tended to develop its own interrelated system of symbolic ceremonies for conveying distinct esoteric visions. The different rites also often claimed variant "authentic" Masonic origins: in ancient Egyptian mysteries; in the lineages of the medieval Knights Templar; in Kabbalistic transmissions; and in Hermetic-alchemical-Rosicrucian traditions. Robert Macoy's 1872 encyclopedia of Freemasonry cataloged over forty-five distinct systems of Masonic rites developed during the period from 1750 to 1820.111 In retrospect one might suggest that during this unusual epoch a creatively elite group of individuals coming from many sectors of society encountered in the Masonic mythos a new medium for expressing their visions. Though basic York rite (or Blue Lodge) Masonry with its three degrees was a common grounding for most of these, around that foundation appeared many layerings of esoteric accretions. With the tools of allegory, symbol, and imagination, and in a format suggesting great mysterious antiquity, men touched by the Masonic mythos began producing new "ancient" rituals. One is reminded of Ireneaus' complaint about the Gnostics responding to the creative muse of their times: "every one of them generates something new, day by day, according to his ability; for no one is deemed mature, who does not develop . . . some mighty fiction."112

http://www.gnosis.org/jskabb1.htm

It may sound off topic, but this title offers unique insight into the mindset of the various groups that we are writing about (secretive and not): homo ludens: a study of the play-element in culture. By Johan Huizinga. You can sample it here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=oZgA8UDf3_4C&lpg=PP1&pg=PP1#v=onepage&q&f=false