John Sherman + "Mr. Sherman" = Bedford = Vine & Olive Colony = Galveston

[tat2guy]

Concerning Beale Sr's estate,what was Chlory Delancy,AKA Chloe Dalancy,Delaney's connection?
She traveled from Botetourt County,Va to New Orleans claiming she was the heir of Beale's Virginia property.
Did she represent another party,or just herself?

That case was chlory delaney trying to get the property of Thomas Beale jr. If I remember right he died with no will. And it was for New Orleans property.

 

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[ECS]

PROBABLY Senior's widow... lived in New Orleans, not Fincastle, Va...

Thomas Beale Sr was married to Celeste Boucher deGrandpre,daughter of Carlos deGrandpre.
According to Carol Bernz"Hidden History the Rouge Thomas Beale Sr",Chlory Delancy,AKA,Chloe Dalancy/Delaney from Botetourt County,Va,contested Sr's will,not Jr's concerning the Beale Virginia property.

 

[bigscoop]

Thomas Beale Sr was married to Celeste Boucher deGrandpre,daughter of Carlos deGrandpre.
According to Carol Bernz"Hidden History the Rouge Thomas Beale Sr",Chlory Delancy,AKA,Chloe Dalancy/Delaney from Botetourt County,Va,contested Sr's will,not Jr's concerning the Beale Virginia property.

I believe that is correct. I believed she challenged Jr. in court over Sr.'s will. The puzzling thing here is this....why challenge for something that was "supposedly" heavy in debt?

This is why I am so curious about those effected Virgina properties. According to one sourse who spent years researching this area, these properties were bought and sold several times but I do not have the details.

 

[tat2guy]

Yes it was over Sr's will, but not until Jr died. I believe b/c Jr without a will would have made her the beneficiary. Now the confusion, Sr transferred the properties and such in a way that wouldn't pay for the debts for those properties. I you research this you will find 2 separate cases for this. 1 was over a fraudulate will, then the other was to give the property to a beneficiary. The case file is a confusing read at best, if you dare take a look.

 

[bigscoop]

Yes it was over Sr's will, but not until Jr died. I believe b/c Jr without a will would have made her the beneficiary. Now the confusion, Sr transferred the properties and such in a way that wouldn't pay for the debts for those properties. I you research this you will find 2 separate cases for this. 1 was over a fraudulate will, then the other was to give the property to a beneficiary. The case file is a confusing read at best, if you dare take a look.

So, if the will was a scam to avoid debt, and that was challenged and determined to be a fraud, then why would Chloe Dalancy desire to inherit all the attached debt that came with the awarding of the properties?

 

[ECS]

So, if the will was a scam to avoid debt, and that was challenged and determined to be a fraud, then why would Chloe Dalancy desire to inherit all the attached debt that came with the awarding of the properties?

The questions still remains:
Who was Chlory Delancy,aka,Chloe Dalancy/Delaney?
Why did she contest Beale's will?
What was her interest in Beale's Virginia properties?
Did she represent another party or parties?
This mystery women may well be the KEY to all that transpired.

 

[bigscoop]

Did she represent another party or parties?

I have suspected that she did represent other interest.

Hey Tat,......"who were the lawyers in these cases?"

 

[bigscoop]

Fellas, if you've not already read this, you should, as I believe, with little doubt, that this is the source of your mystery. Keep in mind the timing of the Adam's Onis Treaty and Graham's timely visit to Texas, even the author of this piece brings into question the United State's mysterious and unexplained stance in all of this. There is also a great deal of money involved, with each band having an elected Captain, and perhaps the most important statement being the following...."and into which they could admit none but Frenchmen,"....and then followed by this exception, which would include many if applied broadly,"...or persons who had served in the Army of France." It's a very good read and I believe it summarizes the real source and situation:

Champ d'Asile from History of France by Anquetil

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Fellas, if you've not already read this, you should, as I believe, with little doubt, that this is the source of your mystery. Keep in mind the timing of the Adam's Onis Treaty and Graham's timely visit to Texas, even the author of this piece brings into question the United State's mysterious and unexplained stance in all of this. There is also a great deal of money involved, with each band having an elected Captain, and perhaps the most important statement being the following...."and into which they could admit none but Frenchmen,"....and then followed by this exception, which would include many if applied broadly,"...or persons who had served in the Army of France." It's a very good read and I believe it summarizes the real source and situation:

Champ d'Asile from History of France by Anquetil

HA! The quote about admitting only FRENCHMEN is NOT in the Beale Pamphlet/"JOB PRINT"/BEALE PAPERS...

 

[bigscoop]

HA! The quote about admitting only FRENCHMEN is NOT in the Beale Pamphlet/"JOB PRINT"/BEALE PAPERS...

You missed the most important part of that statement....."or persons who had served in the Army of France." This would open the door to anyone who had provided any type of military support to France, including privateeers, investors, etc. If you could prove your past support/involvement of "a" French military cause then it was possible that you could be included.

 

[tat2guy]

What was France's biggest import from the south? Cotton and tobacco were the 2 biggest. Does any of that come from Bedford county? Look at the Bedford county names, you may be surprised.

 

[ECS]

What was France's biggest import from the south? Cotton and tobacco were the 2 biggest. Does any of that come from Bedford county? Look at the Bedford county names, you may be surprised.

Where did the Appalachian gingseng that Girard traded in China for opium come from,and who supplied it?
Maybe another surprise .

 

[releventchair]

Where did the Appalachian gingseng that Girard traded in China for opium come from,and who supplied it?
Maybe another surprise .

traditionally "sangers" sell to a buyer. multiple buyers probably sold to an exporter in a major city or port?(Philly perhaps, New York,Boston,Salem). Girard slammed a home run with the opium trade. his relations with the British interesting, smuggling before during and after America fighting with them.An Anthony Girard(no relation but similar immunity) brought from England regularly even during war of 1812 saltpetre ect, for dupont powder to U.S., crazy.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

What was France's biggest import from the south? Cotton and tobacco were the 2 biggest. Does any of that come from Bedford county? Look at the Bedford county names, you may be surprised.

YOU tell ME! Cotton from DEEP south... Tobacco. NOT sure... PROBABLY, North Carolina. Bedford County, VIRGINIA...? LOL!

 

[bigscoop]

traditionally "sangers" sell to a buyer. multiple buyers probably sold to an exporter in a major city or port?(Philly perhaps, New York,Boston,Salem). Girard slammed a home run with the opium trade. his relations with the British interesting, smuggling before during and after America fighting with them.An Anthony Girard(no relation but similar immunity) brought from England regularly even during war of 1812 saltpetre ect, for dupont powder to U.S., crazy.

It was all crazy. Smuggling seems to have been a favorite pastime for all these, "opportunist".

 

[bigscoop]

Did anyone notice the use of the word, "Chiefs" in the information/link I posted about Champ d'Asile? The word is being used to describe those parties who provided the start up capital for the Texas venture. These would also be the men who were running that show, but who were they, exactly?

Who were the speculators who purchased those Alabama land grants?

 

[releventchair]

It was all crazy. Smuggling seems to have been a favorite pastime for all these, "opportunist".

They sure filled a void fast. Reb mentioned tobacco,and while i have read accounts of cotton being in huge demand in England during war,no complaints about baccy.
Tea party may not have been about tax as much as being able to get our own tea cheaper if allowed. Big competition over multiple trades on horizon under sails with Brits.

Morris followed Astors ginseng success when a partner pressing furs backed out. with Canadian stocks depleted,people like the Boone family networked the Appalachians for stock. later it was coming from Minn.? Around start of civil war cultivation became source.

 

[Justintime]

John Hancock, was a wealthy, Smuggler, his name is on the DoI-Key..Justsayn Justintime.

 

[releventchair]

Indeed. He had no love for indies teas with his Dutch gig. At or near tea party time indies tea with tax added still beat his price. Running British off could only help him too.

 

[bigscoop]

John Hancock, was a wealthy, Smuggler, his name is on the DoI-Key..Justsayn Justintime.

No, It isn't. At best his name appears on the DOI. None of this has anything to do with John Hancock. That's a whole different theory and thread. No "TJB" carved into every rock and tree in the mountains here....these guys were much smarter and a lot better schooled then that.