Oroblanco
Gold Member
- Jan 21, 2005
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ConceptualizedNetherlandr wrote
Kemm, whom went by the ID of SantaFeNewMexican here, had posted his site here and on several places online, if memory serves it is/was on Blacktop Mesa. Just look through the older threads and you can't fail to find it.
Don Jose de la Mancha wrote
Yes absolutely they had to report to the "lowly" mission padres; their sole purpose for even being there was to assist the padres and deal with "temporal" needs. So yes they would be the man over-seeing operations at mines, handling livestock, plowing etc but they reported to the padres for everything.
Don Jose el Tropical Tramp also wrote
I would have to say no - comparison; I have not seen anything to tie the Jesuits in with any kind of activities in the Superstitions, while in the area of Tayopa there are records.
Markmar wrote
First - who says the mine is even IN the Wilderness Area? Next, you do not need to do any "illegal work" to obtain photos of an ore vein in place, nor of a mine. Jacob Waltz never sold any gold bars, only raw gold and raw gold ore. Did you read my post above? You could go to the mine, get the necessary photos a document your discovery, then approach the Forest Service to apply for a permit to mine. If they turned you down, even that document may provide the solid proof that it is indeed the mine of Jacob Waltz, if the Forest Service says it is, many people would take that as concrete evidence even if you could never legally mine it.
Sailaway wrote
I am not going to waste your time and mine, but it IS possible to have a mining claim inside of a Wilderness Area, by several possibilities, and will require legal actions on your part. There is legal grounds to get a parcel of land removed from Wilderness status, IF it is rich in minerals and would pass the Prudent Man test, for the legal requirements for all Wilderness Areas was that ALL MINERALIZED LANDS WERE TO BE EXCLUDED. This is why the Forest Service and USGS executed several official studies, to delineate those mineralized areas so as to exclude them. If and I do mean IF you have found a rich mine, and can prove it, you can then proceed to start the legal fight. Another method is by the land exchange, in which you would need to buy lands that the Forest Service wants to add to their wilderness areas, and then make an official exchange. Nothing is ever impossible amigo.
On the other hand, if you folks are SO convinced that it is absolutely impossible to ever mine the Lost Dutchman gold mine legally, why bother to look for it at all? You could spend your time looking for a missing 737 by satellite photos, and be pronounced a hero if you found it.
My sincere apologies to the thread owner my amigo Mike (Gollum) for having drifted SO far OFF TOPIC here, seems we must re-hash some things over and over and over. I have no idea what the Lost Dutchman mine has to do with the question, Jesuit Treasures, Are They Real?
Good luck and good hunting amigos I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
Kemm, whom went by the ID of SantaFeNewMexican here, had posted his site here and on several places online, if memory serves it is/was on Blacktop Mesa. Just look through the older threads and you can't fail to find it.
Don Jose de la Mancha wrote
Yes absolutely they had to report to the "lowly" mission padres; their sole purpose for even being there was to assist the padres and deal with "temporal" needs. So yes they would be the man over-seeing operations at mines, handling livestock, plowing etc but they reported to the padres for everything.
Don Jose el Tropical Tramp also wrote
I would have to say no - comparison; I have not seen anything to tie the Jesuits in with any kind of activities in the Superstitions, while in the area of Tayopa there are records.
Markmar wrote
First - who says the mine is even IN the Wilderness Area? Next, you do not need to do any "illegal work" to obtain photos of an ore vein in place, nor of a mine. Jacob Waltz never sold any gold bars, only raw gold and raw gold ore. Did you read my post above? You could go to the mine, get the necessary photos a document your discovery, then approach the Forest Service to apply for a permit to mine. If they turned you down, even that document may provide the solid proof that it is indeed the mine of Jacob Waltz, if the Forest Service says it is, many people would take that as concrete evidence even if you could never legally mine it.
Sailaway wrote
I am not going to waste your time and mine, but it IS possible to have a mining claim inside of a Wilderness Area, by several possibilities, and will require legal actions on your part. There is legal grounds to get a parcel of land removed from Wilderness status, IF it is rich in minerals and would pass the Prudent Man test, for the legal requirements for all Wilderness Areas was that ALL MINERALIZED LANDS WERE TO BE EXCLUDED. This is why the Forest Service and USGS executed several official studies, to delineate those mineralized areas so as to exclude them. If and I do mean IF you have found a rich mine, and can prove it, you can then proceed to start the legal fight. Another method is by the land exchange, in which you would need to buy lands that the Forest Service wants to add to their wilderness areas, and then make an official exchange. Nothing is ever impossible amigo.
On the other hand, if you folks are SO convinced that it is absolutely impossible to ever mine the Lost Dutchman gold mine legally, why bother to look for it at all? You could spend your time looking for a missing 737 by satellite photos, and be pronounced a hero if you found it.
My sincere apologies to the thread owner my amigo Mike (Gollum) for having drifted SO far OFF TOPIC here, seems we must re-hash some things over and over and over. I have no idea what the Lost Dutchman mine has to do with the question, Jesuit Treasures, Are They Real?
Good luck and good hunting amigos I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco
Had much experience dealing with bureaucracies?
