JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[sailaway]

There may have been a chance that you may have had infringed on his rights...But it appears that his post was not an expression on his part...But just map Images...
Ed T lol

Ed Thank you for the retraction of your support of Marius's position. However one must watch out what they post as giving advice does not mean that you are a contracted Lawyer to the party in question. The giving of legal advice can be as simple as post #2857 demonstrates and no laughing matter as the Bar takes these actions seriously..

 

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[UncleMatt]

so much for getting back on topic...

 

[markmar]

Marius----"aerial picture ( not GE )"
Me----satellite image (BING Maps)---no co-ordinates shown > different image from different resource
sailaway---- GE satellite images---with GE co-ordinates >> also different images from another resource(GE)

So, where's the beef ?

If you wanted , you could cut the picture . You need some bread with your beef ?

 

[markmar]

sailaway

I was talking about the ethical side , not the legal .
I never wrote how I never was in US or I will never go to US . I wrote how I can't make a mine claim because I am not an US citizen .
You are not a real treasure hunter , so you don't know the unwritten codes , so I don't expect an ethical behavior from you .

 

[deducer]

sailaway

I was talking about the ethical side , not the legal .
I never wrote how I never was in US or I will never go to US . I wrote how I can't make a mine claim because I am not an US citizen .
You are not a real treasure hunter , so you don't know the unwritten codes , so I don't expect an ethical behavior from you .

Marius,

I don't think you have the right to say that another person is not a 'real treasure hunter.'

Especially in that you have not been to the areas that you talk about, and that your only relationship to these areas, are satellite images or images taken off the internet.

 

[markmar]

Marius,

I don't think you have the right to say that another person is not a 'real treasure hunter.'

Especially in that you have not been to the areas that you talk about, and that your only relationship to these areas, are satellite images or images taken off the internet.

As I wrote , a real treasure hunter never did this .

As for your statements , have you any proof ? Are you look into your magical ball to see my past ? Or you call some Spirits ? A proverb says " Better eat a big piece instead tell big word "

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Relax Marius my friend. You should have seen what I have been called. Have a , I'll join you. Change Deducer's mind by coming up wirh results, vindicating yourself.. Personally I don't give a damn cause I know I am right and every one will overlook the times I have been wrong.

Deducer is a good guy actually ( he gives me coffee hint.

On such a nebulous thing as Google, relax. In some views I cannot recognize Tayopa and I know it as well as my bathroom reading section.

Here is a sample of some of the posts directed ro me.

This guy is a liar" He isn't actually a treasure hunter ',, He is a troll, he hasn't posted a good post yet, and on, sigh

 

[sailaway]

Here is a paper done by Caryl Marie Brendle Adcock on the The Yellow Jacket Mine close to Arivaca, Arizona. In it it has several old maps and talks about the oro blanco mining district.
Cochise College*************** P
Also this from Picturesque Arizona. 1878

Chief among the traditional mines, for the re-discovery of which, the most daring and vigorous of search has been made since the occupation of the Primeria Alta by Americans, is the famous Jesuit mine, known by the name of the Old Mission, whose ruins have been so fully described in these pages—The Tumacacori Mine. Since Charles D. Boston, Herman Ehrenberg and their comrades first located an American mining settlement at the old pueblo of Tubac, six miles from the Tumacacori Mission, there has been more of endeavor, enterprise, daring and courage displayed in the attempt to re-locate this old mine, so famous in the mission annals for its richness, than in all the other efforts made to hold the country against Cochise and his Apachés. Tradition, besides statements of its richness, almost fabulous in character, has left no other indication of its whereabouts than the declaration of one of the mission histrorographers,—that the mine lay directly east of St. Joseph's Church (the Mission of Tumacacori) a morning's walk, or as elsewhere stated, about fourteen miles distant. Recent investigation in the Sierra Santa Rita growing out of the renewed activity induced by the enterprise and speculation, which organized the already successful Aztec Syndicate, and has made this beautifnl mountain range, the last stronghold of the Apaché Napoleon, Cochise—the scene of vigorous exploring efforts, opened numerous mines, established Toltec Camp and aroused a general interest in this region, has also been able to definitely establish the existence and site of the lost Tumacacori mine.
Following the milpas, or secondary mountain bench, from the farm of Joe King in the Santa Cruz valley which embraces the mission ruins) for some eleven miles, the traveler will reach the ruins of the old Hacienda del Santa Rita, where Wrightson, Grosvenor, Hopkins and Slack, lost their lives, and part of the defence of which in 1861, is so graphically described by Professor Raphael Pumpelly, now of Harvard University, in his book ‘‘Across America and Asia.’’ A well defined road evidently long used, and now made quite easy and accessible, is the route from the valley. To the north, Salero Hill looms up boldly, and the explorer in search of the old Tumacacori mine will follow a rough but still good road for a couple of miles to the Salero House, used by the Tyndall Company since 1875. From this point for another mile or so, the explorer will follow a rude bridle path to the Jefferson mine, one of the most valuable of those now worked by the Aztec Syndicate. To the north and east of the Jefferson for less than half a mile, an old mule track, evidently once heavily used, may be traced. It leads directly to a strongly defined lode of the same general character as the Jefferson and Georgia mines, and terminates at what is evidently an old shaft, now filled with debris, and from the mouth of which a vigorous mesquite tree may be seen growing. The evidence is abundant of old workings, and those best informed in the Mexican and Gaqui Indian traditions, like Professor Thomas Davis, who has resided and worked among them for more than a quarter of a century, have no doubt whatever, of the identity of the Bushell, as this location is now termed, with the long-lost site of the famous Tumacacori mine.
The Bushell, or old Tumacacori mine is now being opened, new shafts are being sunk, and the old one already described is to be cleared out at an early day. The ore developments are all excellent. The Saint Louis mine is located on the famous Empress of India lode, in the southern portion of the Aztec district.
The fame of the ‘Bollos de Plata’ (balls of silver) of Arizona in the beginning of the last century was such at the City of Mexico and finally in Spain, that a royal ordinance issued from Madrid, declared the district of Arizona to be royal property as a Criadero de Plata: that is to say, a place where silver was formed in the processes of nature. There is also in existence a royal paper of Philip V. of May 1741, charging among other embezzlements of royal mineral property in Arizona that of a mass of virgin or pure silver weighing two thousand seven hundred pounds.
http://southwest.library.arizona.edu/pict/body.1_div.24.html

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ed Wasco State Prison here in CA?

I worked San Quintin, the inmates (cons) had free access to two different flavores of Tobacco - al la Roll your own-- chawing tobaco, and an issule of matches whidh many spent tedious hours converting irto contact bombs - playful gestures from inmats that had too much free time on their hands.

Since the inmates have lost all rights while in the cooler, any committe woudl not be legal, unless the Warden specificallyv designated it.

De Facto rule and actual legal basis rule , while at opposing ends, often find themselves partners in the interest of smoothness.

 

[deducer]

As I wrote , a real treasure hunter never did this .

As for your statements , have you any proof ? Are you look into your magical ball to see my past ? Or you call some Spirits ? A proverb says " Better eat a big piece instead tell big word "

Ok then, I will ask you a very simple question: have you actually been to any of the areas that you always talk about? Have you actually put your foot on the ground in the Superstition Mountains?

Yes or no?

Thank you in advance, as Roy likes to say.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Put posts back on topic please...

 

[sailaway]

Treasure Hunters Code of Ethics
1.I will respect Private property and do no treasure hunting without the owners permission.
2. I will fix all excavations
3. I will appreciate and protect our heritage of natural resources, wildlife, and private property.
4. I will use thoughtfulness, consideration and courtesy at all times.
5. I will build fires in designated or safe spots only.
6. I will leave gates as found.
7.I will remove and properly dispose of any trash I find.
8. I will not litter.
9. I will not destroy property, buildings or what is left of ghost towns and deserted structures.
10. I will not tamper with signs, structural facilities, or equipment.

Treasure Hunting Code of Ethics One by One | Lost Treasure Online - Official Website of Lost Treasure Magazine

These are very close to the NRA code of conduct

 

[deducer]

Reading a little about the Sacambaya legend, of which a rough, unverified summary can be found here.

The relevant item I wish to bring up is the sealed message that was allegedly found and broken open at the site of the digging that went on for that treasure, warning any interlopers to back off:

You who reach this place withdraw. This spot is dedicated to God Almighty and the one who dares to enter, a dolorous death awaits him in this world and eternal condemnation in the world he goes to. The riches that belong to God Our Master are not for humans. Withdraw and you will live in peace and the blessing of the Master will make your life sweet and you will die rich with the goods of this world. Obey the command of God Almighty our Master in life and in death. In the name of God the Father, The Son and the Holy Ghost. Amen.

I think it quite relevant, and if authentic, feel that it may offer substantial insight in understanding the inner workings of the Jesuit mind, and how they saw themselves in relation to God and everyone else, particularly at a time when separation of state and church was not even an idea. This is at about the time time the age of enlightement was growing and causing a great rift between individualism and tradition with the concept of reason (or self-reasoning) in central Europe.

The statement does strikes me as something that only a hardliner, or extremist, would say, and it is particularly condescending, not to mention paternalistic. Reading it, one gets a sense of what it must have felt like to be subordinated to these priests, whether as an Indian or indentured laborer. This is old-school in the truest sense of the word: very strict.

In maintaining that these riches are "not for humans," did they then think of themselves as not being human (since they handled, processed, and stored the gold)?

Keeping in mind that many Jesuits broke precepts, whether card-playing, drinking, fornicating, or otherwise being human, did the author really believe what he wrote, or was it simply for effect, as one of several lines of defense?

 

[markmar]

deducer

This letter was just to impress and to lure the treasure hunters . The entrance from the egg stone , is an entrance which leads to nowhere . A smart treasure hunter would easy understand , how to go inside , have to enter from the exit . Also , in the father description , the treasure has three different traps . The first , is the poisoned vapors . The second is a trapped floor which functions when you open the iron door . And the third is the trapped walls and roof , which function when you move something which holds the blocks of granite .
If the treasure is there , now you know the way to recover it .

 

[gollum]

Reading a little about the Sacambaya legend, of which a rough, unverified summary can be found here.

The relevant item I wish to bring up is the sealed message that was allegedly found and broken open at the site of the digging that went on for that treasure, warning any interlopers to back off:



I think it quite relevant, and if authentic, feel that it may offer substantial insight in understanding the inner workings of the Jesuit mind, and how they saw themselves in relation to God and everyone else, particularly at a time when separation of state and church was not even an idea. This is at about the time time the age of enlightement was growing and causing a great rift between individualism and tradition with the concept of reason (or self-reasoning) in central Europe.

The statement does strikes me as something that only a hardliner, or extremist, would say, and it is particularly condescending, not to mention paternalistic. Reading it, one gets a sense of what it must have felt like to be subordinated to these priests, whether as an Indian or indentured laborer. This is old-school in the truest sense of the word: very strict.

In maintaining that these riches are "not for humans," did they then think of themselves as not being human (since they handled, processed, and stored the gold)?

Keeping in mind that many Jesuits broke precepts, whether card-playing, drinking, fornicating, or otherwise being human, did the author really believe what he wrote, or was it simply for effect, as one of several lines of defense?

Ded,

I doubt that was the purpose of the letter at all. Knowing that everyone uses Indian Labor to dig anything, they put that letter there betting that anyone digging for the Jesuit Treasure would likely be either religious or superstitious. They likely hoped that the readers would refuse to go on after seeing that. Sort of a last hope.

Mike

 

[somehiker]

I suspect both observations are correct. That the language of the warning suggests the author as someone who had a "fire and brimstone" attitude, and the warning letter itself, considering the circumstances of it's discovery, as a means to elicit dissension (at the very least) amongst any outside group attempting to enter the chamber.

Regards:SH.

 

[deducer]

Speaking of fire and brimstone, hardliner, extremist, etc., here is the life-like statue of Fr. Joaquín Felix Diaz (picture below) which some of you know is at the Tumacacori Museum.

His likeness is often described as having a fierce stare, or a fierce expression. Why is that so?

It would be interesting to know what led the artist to depict him as having such a hard countenance, rather than one of bliss, being content, or expressing compassion or kindness, such as would be associated with a 'missionary' whose goal allegedly was to 'bring the Indian up out of ignorance.'

Indeed, his is a hard stare and he appears to be trudging, with a saddle by his side. The symbolism of this is hard to miss.

 

[sailaway]

deducer and gollum I am no priest, hardliner or extremist yet believe that these treasures are protected or would have been found already by the shear number of people looking for them. My translation is only what I feel was revealed to me by examining the area and statements of those that preceded us in this search of the treasures. It is more like a statement that the treasures are laid at the feet of the Great Spirit and he is in control of whom and when the treasure can be revealed. It could be claimed that it is a curse similar to the curse the Aztecs placed on the gold of Cortez or could even be the same gold? Cortez lost his first treasure when the ship sunk off Gorda Cay (Now known as Castaway Cay) and a private Disney island in the Bahamas and three others went aground off Moores Island in a storm. One of the ships has never been salvaged and to the locals is known only as old hull bank. According to Jonathan an 80 y.o. man resident of Moores Island (In 2004) who told me the story of how at low tide the massive bow timber can be made out in the sand to the west. He was shown the spot when he was a boy and no one knows where the Ship came from or when because it predates the Slaves in the Bahamas.

Now a word of WARNING: 2=3- CIRCLE WITH DOT IN CENTER -18=7 THIS IS THE CODE THAT IS WRITTEN ON THE OUTSTREACHED ARM OF THE PRIEST. Translation:
Godliness is achieved by awareness that self is nothing in the vastness of the universe. When self is forgotten and thoughts are replaced by desire for togetherness of the greater good of all, it becomes a higher plane of being, also known as holiness. This is the first thing that must happen for us to be closer to God, one must consider their hearts desires then analyze if it is pure Love or is it simply coveting. If this train of thought were applied, we will find that Love pours out of us for everything in all directions. Without pure Love there would be nothing, not even you or I. Pure Love is what keeps God alive. This code is written in the fiber of life, from tectonics to atoms. The extension of Love sacrifices all, and leads to the path of heaven. God placed his son here to show us how to love unconditionally. We all have this code surrounding our hearts from birth. Life teaches us to hide this love because disappointment hurts. That is only because we think of ourselves as the most important, yet here we are an insignificant speck in time and space. To find richness within one must cast aside all fears, trust in the solid foundation and then venture out over the edge. Finding the solid spot is a hard path to follow. Even knowing the trails end does not mean that it can be found. There are many barriers that one must negotiate to find the higher ground with the anchor point. Then cast a line of faith over the brink. Secure yourself to this line and plunge over the edge into the unknown. There you will find the entrance into the treasure vault.
Do not attempt to go after the treasure just to get rich or God will kill you just as dead as the priest and the Peraltas. If there is a pureness of heart and thoughts of how this will better mankind you may be successful.
(From Survey of Mina Virgon in member hunts on T-Net)

this is what John Ramses had to say about the Curse in his book Quest for Peralta Gold:

I was becoming more convinced that these difficulties were due to the curse on the Sombrero Mines, for the uncanny hardships and misfortunes over the last decade seemed synchronous with any involvement I had with the mines, and only seemed to intensify the nearer to the mines I came. After accounting for the many regrets I had in life I began to mentally list those things that were most important to me, should I live, and how I would conduct my life from that moment on. The same mines that I believed to have been a curse in my life was also the same that caused the adrenaline to flood my body.

 

[somehiker]

"Now a word of WARNING: 2=3- CIRCLE WITH DOT IN CENTER -18=7 THIS IS THE CODE THAT IS WRITTEN ON THE OUTSTREACHED ARM OF THE PRIEST."

Actually sailaway, it's found at the bottom right of the lower Trail Stone, and not on the arm of the Priest.
That's quite some crazy stuff on your "Mina Virgon" topic.....

 

[UncleMatt]

Guys, can you please educate me about whether the Spanish used steel drills to drill holes as part of their mining techniques? And what time periods they were in use? Please post photos if you have any. Thanks!