Jesuit Treasure - Putting It All Together

[sdcfia]

SDC, in the case of the Jesuits, the take over of North America would be considered long term , no ??

Yes, the French Jesuits may have had their eye on some sort of a North American possession since Napoleon sent a large treasure to New Orleans and it was transferred to several cache sites in Colorado's San Luis Valley. The Jesuits' plans may have been delayed with the Louisiana Purchase, but with today's facial recognition technology, as applied to the French DNA genome, we are able to identify evidence at least two major secret French actions since then. First, the Statue of Liberty, a 1885 French monument that codifies the locations of the Colorado cache sites.


Second, the well-known 20th-century US citizen, a French-blood double agent and treasure sentinel who double-crossed Nixon in 1977 and was forced to move underground. Notice the family resemblance to the Statue? The model for the monument was his great-grandmother.

 

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[mdog]

Yes, the French Jesuits may have had their eye on some sort of a North American possession since Napoleon sent a large treasure to New Orleans and it was transferred to several cache sites in Colorado's San Luis Valley. The Jesuits' plans may have been delayed with the Louisiana Purchase, but with today's facial recognition technology, as applied to the French DNA genome, we are able to identify evidence at least two major secret French actions since then. First, the Statue of Liberty, a 1885 French monument that codifies the locations of the Colorado cache sites.
View attachment 1311831

Second, the well-known 20th-century US citizen, a French-blood double agent and treasure sentinel who double-crossed Nixon in 1977 and was forced to move underground. Notice the family resemblance to the Statue? The model for the monument was his great-grandmother.
View attachment 1311835

I'd like to hear the story, sdcfia.

 

[sdcfia]

I'd like to hear the story, sdcfia.

It's a strange and at times unbelievable tale, mdog, but it ties together a number of known historic facts with a couple well-known treasure legends. And, yes, Elvis played a part too. He was groomed for the role from a very young age. It's been claimed that he's still on watch, but those reports have not been verified. However, rather than hijack this thread, perhaps the story needs a thread of its own. I've also been toying with the idea of writing a book to disclose the information - maybe that would be the better vehicle.

 

[mdog]

It's a strange and at times unbelievable tale, mdog, but it ties together a number of known historic facts with a couple well-known treasure legends. And, yes, Elvis played a part too. He was groomed for the role from a very young age. It's been claimed that he's still on watch, but those reports have not been verified. However, rather than hijack this thread, perhaps the story needs a thread of its own. I've also been toying with the idea of writing a book to disclose the information - maybe that would be the better vehicle.

I'm a big fan of your writing so I hope you do write a book. It sounds like it could be a real interesting subject.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hmmmmmmmm

 

[Backwoodsbob]

That would be interesting to read about.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

SDC, don't drag it out as I have on Tayopa.

 

[gollum]

It's a strange and at times unbelievable tale, mdog, but it ties together a number of known historic facts with a couple well-known treasure legends. And, yes, Elvis played a part too. He was groomed for the role from a very young age. It's been claimed that he's still on watch, but those reports have not been verified. However, rather than hijack this thread, perhaps the story needs a thread of its own. I've also been toying with the idea of writing a book to disclose the information - maybe that would be the better vehicle.

Okay, you lost me here! HAHAHA My Uncle Steve used to date Elvis' 1st Cousin Patsy Presley. Patsy worked at Graceland, and gave my grandmother. my best friend, and I a personal tour of the house. When we got to the Jungle Room, Elvis was sitting on the couch in a white robe watching four TV's. Nicest guy in the world. He socialized with us for about a half hour. He signed pictures for us, and took pictures with us. Very nice guy. Two weeks later he was dead. I met him at the end of June 1977. and he died August 16th. I think Patsy's married name is Geranon now.

Steve was around there all the time. If you know any celebrities, you would know their lives are not their own ever. If some government wanted to use him to carry something from point "A" to point "B", that is one thing. The US does it all the time. For someone like Elvis to have had any kind of active involvement is ridiculous. Elvis was always surrounded by his security people. I knew Red West before he died. Red knew Elvis since Junior High, and worked for him his entire career as head of his security. He would have known if Elvis had been involved in anything like being a Watcher/Sentinel.

Mike

 

[gollum]

AUDIGGER53,

A couple of things. The Jesuits final vows call for an oath to the Pope first and foremost. That is why they are called "The Pope's Shock Troops". They answer to him. The gold/silver that went to Rome went to The Catholic Church. It may have been stored at The Jesuit Curia, but you have to understand that The Jesuit Curia is just down the street from The Vatican Complex. They also shipped wealth via The Pacific Ocean and the Manilla Galleons (The Philippines were a big Catholic/Jesuit Spanish Colony).

While Galena was prized, it wasn't because of lead. Galena (especially SoAz Galena) is typically rich in Silver. When they found The Wandering Jew Mine in the Santa Rita Mts.....well, here is the actual history, written by Colonel Poston:

Col. Poston, in his work on Arizona, quotes the Jesuit records wherein is given a description of the location of their property. It states that standing in the church and looking through the east door towards the mountains, about ten miles distant is seen a sharp picacho or pinnacle, and that near that are the mines worked by the priests. Standing in the old ruined church today and looking through the east door, there is discovered the pinnacle described in the record, and it is the highest point on the ridge through which runs the “Wandering Jew” ledge. The work we uncovered we believe to be a part of that done by the Jesuits. And somewhere in that hill are doubtless deeper and more extensive working, co-temporary and covered in the same way.

In our own properties we have found unmistakable evidences of former occupancy and operations. Upon the “Wandering Jew” mine we stripped the top of the ledge a distance of nearly 300 feet between two shafts we were sinking. Our first work on the trench we dug about four feet in depth was in virgin ground, and our excavation exposed the mineral in the ledge, which is a high grade galena, interspersed with gray copper. At the end of about 150 feet we broke into an old working that had been completed much the same as our own, and afterward covered over. First small saplings and boughs of trees had been laid across the trench, which was on a side hill just below the crest of a ridge. The network of boughs and saplings was covered with a thick layer of closely matted twigs, over these was laid a layer of grass, and upon that a layer of dirt. In a very short time after that covering was made, natural causes assimilated its appearance with the adjacent earth, so no one could detect the covered work. We stopped throwing off this old covering when we reached the dump of our own shaft, and made no effort to carry it beyond the dump. Had we sunk the shaft on the vein we should have penetrated the same old working, but we had sunk between two veins and cross-cut both, our object being to cut each away below the old work uncovered in the trench. That work we believe to have been done by the Jesuit missionaries, the ruins of whose old church in the Santa Cruz Valley, at Tumacacori, are visible from the “Wandering Jew” ridge. That mission was abandoned about 1769 at the time of the expulsion of the Jesuits from Mexico. The Tumacacori priests are said to have left records to show that they operated mines in the Santa Rita mountains and shipped the bullion.

The Wandering Jew:



Also, the Jesuit Order was NEVER supposed to give anything to the King of Spain. Since the 13th Century, all Religious Persons were forbidden by both Royal Cedula and Ecclesiastical Precept from having ANYTHING to do with mining. The King paid the Jesuit Order 200 pesos per year for each active Missionary Priest in country.The Missions were supposed to sell just enough food and whatever to keep that mission going. They were not allowed to run ANY "businesses for profit."

The reason the Jesuits were suppressed from all Spanish Territories was because King Charles III supported the Reformation of the Catholic Church through "The Enlightened Movement". The Jesuit Order supported the Inquisitions. They felt The Reformation was a "watered down" form of Catholicism. Since Charles III supported it, the Order talked massive crap behind his back. They said he wasn't a TRUE Catholic King, and during the "Esquillache Riots" in Spain in 1766, several Jesuits were caught red-handed giving out money to the rioters to keep the riots going. THAT is what started the snowball rolling for the Jesuits in Spanish Territories.

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

Okay, you lost me here! HAHAHA My Uncle Steve used to date Elvis' 1st Cousin Patsy Presley. Patsy worked at Graceland, and gave my grandmother. my best friend, and I a personal tour of the house. When we got to the Jungle Room, Elvis was sitting on the couch in a white robe watching four TV's. Nicest guy in the world. He socialized with us for about a half hour. He signed pictures for us, and took pictures with us. Very nice guy. Two weeks later he was dead. I met him at the end of June 1977. and he died August 16th. I think Patsy's married name is Geranon now.

Steve was around there all the time. If you know any celebrities, you would know their lives are not their own ever. If some government wanted to use him to carry something from point "A" to point "B", that is one thing. The US does it all the time. For someone like Elvis to have had any kind of active involvement is ridiculous. Elvis was always surrounded by his security people. I knew Red West before he died. Red knew Elvis since Junior High, and worked for him his entire career as head of his security. He would have known if Elvis had been involved in anything like being a Watcher/Sentinel.

Mike

Presley's unprecedented success as an entertainer drastically impacted his private life and created serious personal conflicts, much of which - but not all - was obvious to his entourage and to the public. Most of his life was an open book.

First, a few truncated facts about Presley's background to get you started. His distant antecedents on his mother's side (the Mansells) were French nobility from the province of Maine, near Normandy. The first Mansell emigrated to America before the French Revolution. French agents had been attempting to identify surviving American male members of the Mansell blood line (and several others) since ca 1913 - seeking capable descendants willing to accept a blood oath in exchange for important and discreet work needed to extend their covert American mission. The Presley family was on the French's radar during Mrs. Presley’s pregnancy in 1935, and despite the death of his identical twin Jesse during childbirth, Elvis was added to a list for future monitoring and possible later contact. Then nothing substantial happened for nine years, until 1944.

More later - unless I decide against jeopardizing copyright rights by posting here. Regardless, whatever I have learned about this was through due diligence and can be replicated by anyone willing to spend the time. If you wish to cut to the chase - yes, I believe Presley passed in 1977.

 

[deducer]

The reason the Jesuits were suppressed from all Spanish Territories was because King Charles III supported the Reformation of the Catholic Church through "The Enlightened Movement". The Jesuit Order supported the Inquisitions. They felt The Reformation was a "watered down" form of Catholicism. Since Charles III supported it, the Order talked massive crap behind his back. They said he wasn't a TRUE Catholic King, and during the "Esquillache Riots" in Spain in 1766, several Jesuits were caught red-handed giving out money to the rioters to keep the riots going. THAT is what started the snowball rolling for the Jesuits in Spanish Territories.

Mike

King Charles III believed in absolutism as the best way to enact reform to continue Spain as a colonial power, and a power to be reckoned with, and so in that regard, a collision between him and the Jesuits was inevitable. He regarded their "loyalty and obedience" to the papacy as an affront to his absolutism (he even had problems with the papacy itself, refusing to allow bulls or briefs in Spain without royal permission).

Compounding the issue was, as you mentioned, that he was also an "enlightened despot" who was bent on subordination of the church to the Bourbon monarchy, e.g., the church answers to the state.

Clearly the Jesuits had other ideas.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Mike, I believe that whils they swore to the pope, theii ultimate allegience , was to the order and it;s head.

 

[gollum]

The reason I always bring out the rule against religious types mining is because to know that law, and how serious it was to both the King and the Church, ABSOLUTELY goes in direct conflict with what is written in many Jesuit Missionary Fathers' Journals.

People not knowing how serious it would have been for ANY Priest to have broken either a Royal Cedula or Ecclesiastical Precept, does not understand what is involved:

1. Royal Cedula: A written law signed into proclamation by a King. To be caught breaking a Royal Cedula could easily mean death.

2. Ecclesiastical Precept: Is a religious law. To a Missionary Priest, breaking an Ecclesiastical Precept is far worse than a possible death sentence by a King. A Priest that knowingly violates an Ecclesiastical Precept is breaking his "Vow of Obedience". To understand how important the Vow of Obedience is to a Jesuit, you have to understand the Holy Vows a Jesuit must take; The first three "Poverty", "Chastity", and "Obedience" are the first three. After that, if the Priest is to become a Missionary, he would take a fourth vow. The text of that vow is:

I further promise a special obedience to the sovereign pontiff in regard to the missions, according to the same Apostolic Letters and the Constitutions

So, first they vow obedience to God and Mother church. The last vow is obedience especially to the Reigning Pope.

If a Jesuit breaks their vow of obedience, the punishment can range from a Censure all the way up to Excommunication (depending on the severity).

Now that you know that, know this: A Jesuit took approximately 24-27 years from the day they took their initial vows as a novitiate until the day of their Final Vows. Do you REALLY think that someone who took 25 years to get to their position as a Missionary Priest, would risk EVERYTHING for some Earthly Money? Not a chance.

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

You are right, unless there was a separte wording descretely hidden in their scriiptures. How do you think that they came up with the goodies to finance their shenanigans throuh out the world , and yes there are records of their apparent breaing of teir vows, and they did break them They didn't come up with these funds through donations and wills alone.

Why was it necessary to repeat the royal orer to stop mining ??

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

Polanco's "Chronicon" [destroys the stereotype of a religious order under strict military discipline, with each member a pawn acting only under orders from his superior. It replaces this image with a picture of a vast network of enterprising individuals who, while keeping in close communication with those in authority and receiving guidance and "consolation" from them, adapted the local needs and tried to seize opportunities as they presented themselves. The Chronicon provides the data from this period for answering the questions about the degree to which the Jesuits had a clearly formulated strategy for their ministry in any given area.] John O'Malley, S.J.

I believe this is what I have been trying to say for many years now. Even in their own writings, they gave themselves room to do what was required to survive and to continue their work. For some, that may have included breaking the rules to provide for their flock.

Just one man's opinion.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

Don Jose,

They got that money through loopholes! The Jesuit (like the folks at Enron) have always been "the smartest guys in the room". The Jesuits were quite adept at finding loopholes they could exploit. Here is a perfect example:

There was a Precept issued that said no Jesuit was allowed to play cards. Not wishing to break the rules, but liking to gamble, the Jesuits started sitting behind the people actually playing the cards, and still betting. THEY WEREN'T PLAYING CARDS!

When the higher ups learned about this, they issued a new Precept. No Jesuits were allowed to play cards, nor were now allowed to bet on the card games. Okay. Next, the Jesuits took to sitting behind the players, and telling them what to bet. Whatever they won, they tithed to the Priest. They were neither playing cards, nor were they betting themselves.

That was again followed up by another Precept that forbade Jesuits from having anything to do with gambling or card playing.

The exact same thing happened with mining and businesses for profit. Jesuits take INDIVIDUAL Vows of Poverty. The Jesuit Order (like the rest of the Catholic Church) is quite wealthy. The Church displays its wealth in all its Churches because:

Although in these miserable times opposing opinions have arisen among critics, some praising and others condemning the care and expense of adorning and maintaining the temples with all possible dignity and decency for the reverence due to the Supreme Maker of all creation, I will not enter into a dispute over the subject, but I believe in what Our Mother, the Holy Roman Catholic Church, has always praised, approved, practised, and in a certain fashion glorified in the lives of its Saints. One learns from the lessons of St Ignatius of Loyola, father and founder of the Society of Jesus, when he says in praise of that Holy Patriarch, “Templorum nitor, catechismi traditio, concionum ac Sacramentorum frequentia ab ipso incrementum accepere.”I shall say that my heart rejoices with delight, and I feel more inclined to worship and praise Our Lord when I enter any well adorned church. I must let the admiration argument prevail, a maiori ad minorem [from the highest to the lowest], for if we who are more rational than the Indians find incentive and devotion in temples that outshine others by their glowing adornments and will choose those in preference to the slovenly ones for Mass, Sermon, Confession, and Communion, how much more must the Indians be in need of such stimuli when nothing of what they hear takes hold upon them unless it enters through their eyes with some sort of demonstration of the Supreme Creator about whom the preacher is speaking? So, when they see that the house of God is well ordered, clean, and beautifully adorned, they perceive at once the magnificence of its Owner and Ruler. I praise the missionaries of Sonora for imitating their great Father St. Ignatius.

Father Johan Nentvig SJ from "Rudo Ensayo"

Back to the mining loophole argument:

Jose is correct in asking why did they have to repeat that Cedula/Precept? They didn't repeat it. What started in the 13th Century, kept getting changed as the Jesuits found the loopholes. The final Jesuit Ecclesiastical Precept regarding mining was from 1747:

Rule #4. No one will work mines. This includes the prohibition that no one will have any knowledge about the matter of mining, either directly or indirectly. The intention of the precept is to include all forms of knowledge or interpretations that could even fall within the same precept.

Father Charles Polzer SJ from "Rules and Precepts of the Jesuit Missions of NorthWestern New Spain"

If you read that carefully, you will see that it is a cobbled together from a bunch of older Precepts. Here is a precept from about the time the Jesuits were just getting their ball rolling (1592):




Now, compare that with the 1747 version. You can see that it has been changed several times accounting for loopholes discovered.

Joe,

There is a vast and distinct difference between "room to do what was required to survive and to continue their work" and having the largest sugar plantations in the New World and being the largest slaveholders in the New World. Also based on what was found in Rio de Janeiro, its not likely their revenue only came from subsistence selling of goods to miners and locals and tithing.

Also, they were never GIVEN ROOM. Look at the card playing example I posted. One precept was made against playing cards. The Missionaries exploited a loophole in the law pronounced by THE CHURCH. When the Church found out the Missionaries had found a loophole, they put out a different Precept that was a bit more specific. When the next loophole was first found, then discovered, the Church issued a new Precept that was even more specific. The Church was issuing Precepts, but the Missionary Fathers kept finding and exploiting the loopholes in those precepts.

Mike

 

[sdcfia]

Mike,

Polanco's "Chronicon" [destroys the stereotype of a religious order under strict military discipline, with each member a pawn acting only under orders from his superior. It replaces this image with a picture of a vast network of enterprising individuals who, while keeping in close communication with those in authority and receiving guidance and "consolation" from them, adapted the local needs and tried to seize opportunities as they presented themselves. The Chronicon provides the data from this period for answering the questions about the degree to which the Jesuits had a clearly formulated strategy for their ministry in any given area.] John O'Malley, S.J.

I believe this is what I have been trying to say for many years now. Even in their own writings, they gave themselves room to do what was required to survive and to continue their work. For some, that may have included breaking the rules to provide for their flock.

Just one man's opinion.

Take care,

Joe

Yes, but the Jesuits and several other Orders were a head-bowed bunch primarily vested in saving the infidels' souls - at least that's how they advertised themselves. An indiscretion here and there may have been denied or perhaps rationalized as a human frailty. That template may have been applied to some of the Orders, but it certainly didn't fit all Catholic Orders sanctioned by the Pope.

By the time of the Reformation, the Knights of St John (Hospitallers) approached their strict religious vows with a raucous wink and a nod, while outwardly selling themselves for a premium as a crack mercenary army and navy with two primary purposes: killing Muslims on land and sea for the pope and the princes of Europe, and building hospitals to be sure their wounded were well cared for. If any religios were "expendable pawns under their superior's orders", the Hospitallers would have been the poster boys. Oh well, I guess even Jesus got testy with the money changers in the temple.

Nowhere is this contrast in styles better shown than in this outstanding account, http://www.amazon.com/Great-Siege-M...qid=1463268159&sr=8-1&keywords=siege+of+malta If the Knights hadn't held their ground in Malta against Suleiman the Magnificent's overwhelming invasion forces, the next target for the Ottomans would have been Rome, and then, goodbye Christianity in Europe. They held on primarily due to the leadership of their Grand Master, Jean la Valette, who literally demanded his knights' lives for the cause. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gentleman. I have often wondeeed on the final word of allegience to the pope snd his 'no mining was allowed'-- 'along with the Kings'--- which took effect in North America, yet in clear violation of that supposed oath the Jesuits were freely and openly mining in South America ? Were thay only bound by an oath of convenience to the Pope ?

 

[audigger53]

It was my belief that the Jesuits were the military arm of the Church and went with the Armies in the New World to Bless the Soldiers as they converted the Indians by the sword. A lot like the Moslems did when they started out their conquests. But the Jesuits stayed behind and opened Missions to convert the Indians and then when gold or silver were found, had the Indians work the mines/deposits "For the Glory of God". Now God didn't include the Pope or the Kings to them. Back then (1500-1700) most of the Popes were appointed by the kings and not by the Cardinals by ballot. So they could pledge to the Pope but not feel he was really "God's Vicar on Earth". Loopholes again. Just my thoughts on this.

 

[OldSowBreath]

I wasn't born or raised Catholic, but was educated by the Jesuits. I enjoy this thread. Just chiming in to confirm that they ARE the smartest people in the room (sadly it did not rub off on me).

Oh, and they can drink anybody under the table.