Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
Hutter family; CONFEDERATE WAR
Hutter? German, I think... will get web-site for you. 
Coffee?
Hutter? German, I think... will get web-site for you. Coffee? 
Jefferson Bible
- Thread starter bigscoop
- Start date
- Status
Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
Hutter Family "Geno"
"Google" DESCENDANTS OF JOHANN LUDWIG HUTTER - 1726 Coffee? 
"Google" DESCENDANTS OF JOHANN LUDWIG HUTTER - 1726 Coffee? 
bigscoop
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 13,541
- Reaction score
- 9,078
- Golden Thread
- 0
- Location
- Wherever there be treasure!
- Detector(s) used
- Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- #23
Thread Owner
RISQUE ........it's French origin.
Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
??
So? 
8)Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
NO French-Connection...
HA! NO "French-connection" here... ONLY The Hutter brother (CSA), who was a CSA SURVEYOR; JAMES RISQUE HUTTER! AND! There were @ 100 saltpeter caves from Harrisonburg, down to Blackburg, Va. that the REBS used for making gunpowder, and "hiding stuff" in the WESTERN part of Va. ("Google" CONFEDERATE GUNPOWDER & WESTERN VIRGINIA CAVES). BUT! The MOST accessible CAVERN, close to Lexington, Va. (VMI) was/is NATURAL BRIDGE CAVERNS, once owned by THOMAS JEFFERSON! Been there, and read where there ONCE was TREASURE buried at Natural Bridge, Va. I suspect it was "the Beale"/part of CSA Treasury & "assets" bound for VMI! 
JR Hutter was a VMI grad. and also went to UVA for a bit... got his Engineering Degree from VMI in 1860. TWO CSA SENTINELS were assigned to "watch" over "the Beale". The mystery man of upper Goose Creek Valley... "BUCK" WT Wright; had a mountain home near Fincastle Turnpike, and was responsible for Thomas Jefferson National Forest. AND! "BEAR" Tolley, who had a cabin in the George Washington National Forest, being responsible for GWNF. They were & "posed" as loners... mountain men; "Bear" is featured at Natural Bridge Museum and looked like Daniel Boone! HA!
HA! NO "French-connection" here... ONLY The Hutter brother (CSA), who was a CSA SURVEYOR; JAMES RISQUE HUTTER! AND! There were @ 100 saltpeter caves from Harrisonburg, down to Blackburg, Va. that the REBS used for making gunpowder, and "hiding stuff" in the WESTERN part of Va. ("Google" CONFEDERATE GUNPOWDER & WESTERN VIRGINIA CAVES). BUT! The MOST accessible CAVERN, close to Lexington, Va. (VMI) was/is NATURAL BRIDGE CAVERNS, once owned by THOMAS JEFFERSON! Been there, and read where there ONCE was TREASURE buried at Natural Bridge, Va. I suspect it was "the Beale"/part of CSA Treasury & "assets" bound for VMI! JR Hutter was a VMI grad. and also went to UVA for a bit... got his Engineering Degree from VMI in 1860. TWO CSA SENTINELS were assigned to "watch" over "the Beale". The mystery man of upper Goose Creek Valley... "BUCK" WT Wright; had a mountain home near Fincastle Turnpike, and was responsible for Thomas Jefferson National Forest. AND! "BEAR" Tolley, who had a cabin in the George Washington National Forest, being responsible for GWNF. They were & "posed" as loners... mountain men; "Bear" is featured at Natural Bridge Museum and looked like Daniel Boone! HA!
bigscoop
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 13,541
- Reaction score
- 9,078
- Golden Thread
- 0
- Location
- Wherever there be treasure!
- Detector(s) used
- Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- #26
Thread Owner
I'm going to have to read the story again. I thought the depoists were made in 1819 & 1821, not in the 1860's? 
Once we change the dates, the characters, etc., then it seems to me everything in the original story becomes all fiction. In other words, how much of it are we willing to change to meet our own theories before the original work itself becomes all fiction? Seems to me, once we change too much, then we have actually only helped to prove that the original story was nothing more then a work of fiction to begin with.
Once we change the dates, the characters, etc., then it seems to me everything in the original story becomes all fiction. In other words, how much of it are we willing to change to meet our own theories before the original work itself becomes all fiction? Seems to me, once we change too much, then we have actually only helped to prove that the original story was nothing more then a work of fiction to begin with. 
Justintime
Bronze Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2011
- Messages
- 1,164
- Reaction score
- 345
- Golden Thread
- 0
- Location
- Central, Alabama
- Detector(s) used
- AT Pro,Pro pointer, TRX,Whites Spectrum XLT, Whites Beachhunter ID, whites bullseye ll pinpointer
- Primary Interest:
- Other
Sounds like reb. is trying to be misleading on purpose. Your story changes to much. Is someone paying you. You know the truth.
Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
SUBSEQUENT R & I on "The Beale"; or are YOU stuck in "the box"?
LOL! You BOTH are stuck in the "box" of the BEALE PAPERS; that's ALL you have. I have done R & I, talked/listened to "locals" (including PV... RIP). In fact, PV's LAST book on the "BT" follows almost EXACTLY, what I have stated: "Google" CONFEDERATE TREASURE COVERUP - DUTY, HONOR, & DECEIT FACTION: novel based on FACTS, according to my R & I, which is MORE than ARMCHAIR "researchers" (Professionals, just looking at the Beale Cipher(s) can do... LOL!). MORE "sites" of interest: "Google" PAGE 16: BEALE CIPHERS ANALYSIS: THE FREEMASONS & THE CONFEDERATE TREASURY :wink AND! BEALE TREASURE STORY: FERDINAND C. HUTTER, ANONYMOUS AUTHOR OF WARD'S PAMPHLET There is MORE... BUT!
LATER! BTW, NO ONE is paying me, AND! I am NOT misleading ANYONE; this info is from subsequent R & I since 1885, 1952, & 1964 +...
LOL! You BOTH are stuck in the "box" of the BEALE PAPERS; that's ALL you have. I have done R & I, talked/listened to "locals" (including PV... RIP). In fact, PV's LAST book on the "BT" follows almost EXACTLY, what I have stated: "Google" CONFEDERATE TREASURE COVERUP - DUTY, HONOR, & DECEIT FACTION: novel based on FACTS, according to my R & I, which is MORE than ARMCHAIR "researchers" (Professionals, just looking at the Beale Cipher(s) can do... LOL!). MORE "sites" of interest: "Google" PAGE 16: BEALE CIPHERS ANALYSIS: THE FREEMASONS & THE CONFEDERATE TREASURY :wink AND! BEALE TREASURE STORY: FERDINAND C. HUTTER, ANONYMOUS AUTHOR OF WARD'S PAMPHLET There is MORE... BUT!LATER!
BTW, NO ONE is paying me, AND! I am NOT misleading ANYONE; this info is from subsequent R & I since 1885, 1952, & 1964 +...
bigscoop
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 13,541
- Reaction score
- 9,078
- Golden Thread
- 0
- Location
- Wherever there be treasure!
- Detector(s) used
- Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- #29
Thread Owner
Reb,
With all due respect, when you lay claim that nothing in the original Beale Papers was true as it was written "except the location" then you're actually stating that everything else in the original Beale Papers was all fiction. If this is indeed the case, then the Beale Papers had to be a work of fiction, nothing more. We can't take the provided dates and move them up 50 years, if we do then there can be no staying at the Morriss Hotel, no staying at Buford's Tavern, etc. Once we move these dates then the entire story changes from "somewhat possible" as it was written, to "obviously impossible" as it was written. No factional, just all fiction. We can't have it both ways, as you keep insisting that it must be.
And as for "armchair research".........who's posting the vast majority the armchair links? Sorta the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think? And everyone knows the worst research in the world to base anything on is "he-said, she-said", in fact it's so unreliable the courts won't even allow it in the judical process. "Documentation" is what's important.....those things that can be proven and established to exist, or to have existed. Local lore is certainly not any form of credible proof, in fact it's far, far, from it. 
With all due respect, when you lay claim that nothing in the original Beale Papers was true as it was written "except the location" then you're actually stating that everything else in the original Beale Papers was all fiction. If this is indeed the case, then the Beale Papers had to be a work of fiction, nothing more. We can't take the provided dates and move them up 50 years, if we do then there can be no staying at the Morriss Hotel, no staying at Buford's Tavern, etc. Once we move these dates then the entire story changes from "somewhat possible" as it was written, to "obviously impossible" as it was written. No factional, just all fiction. We can't have it both ways, as you keep insisting that it must be.
And as for "armchair research".....
....who's posting the vast majority the armchair links? Sorta the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think? And everyone knows the worst research in the world to base anything on is "he-said, she-said", in fact it's so unreliable the courts won't even allow it in the judical process. "Documentation" is what's important.....those things that can be proven and established to exist, or to have existed. Local lore is certainly not any form of credible proof, in fact it's far, far, from it.
Justintime
Bronze Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2011
- Messages
- 1,164
- Reaction score
- 345
- Golden Thread
- 0
- Location
- Central, Alabama
- Detector(s) used
- AT Pro,Pro pointer, TRX,Whites Spectrum XLT, Whites Beachhunter ID, whites bullseye ll pinpointer
- Primary Interest:
- Other
I'm pretty sure their are a number of people that don't want this treasure recovered. As a tacticical move, They press the cover-up story, and Poe,ect. Maybe everyone will quit looking, if everyone's under the impression that its not real. I assured you, its very much real.
Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
Nod & a wink here...
"Scoop": Original BEALE PAPERS is a "COVER STORY"; "locals" know MORE, and even the location is questionable.
NO Morriss Hotel is mentioned (Scoop "post" # 28); Buford Tavern? MAYBE REBS stayed with Paschal Buford, a FRIEND of Gen. Robert E. Lee; NOT "obviously impossible". I "post" web-sites, so y'all can do R & I, too; MY info is "on-the-ground" work & contacts with ppl, doing R & I in Lynchburg, Bedford, Roanoke, Lexington, Botetourt County, Va. which YOU can not DO! "DOCUMENTATION"?
From the BEALE PAPERS? LOL! ROFL! Had attorneys like Jubal A. Early in Lynchburg, Va. working on the "cover-up", up to 1885. "Just":
Real or NOT real... THAT is the question; show YOUR "proof"! 8)
"Scoop": Original BEALE PAPERS is a "COVER STORY"; "locals" know MORE, and even the location is questionable. NO Morriss Hotel is mentioned (Scoop "post" # 28); Buford Tavern? MAYBE REBS stayed with Paschal Buford, a FRIEND of Gen. Robert E. Lee;
NOT "obviously impossible". I "post" web-sites, so y'all can do R & I, too; MY info is "on-the-ground" work & contacts with ppl, doing R & I in Lynchburg, Bedford, Roanoke, Lexington, Botetourt County, Va. which YOU can not DO! "DOCUMENTATION"?From the BEALE PAPERS? LOL! ROFL! Had attorneys like Jubal A. Early in Lynchburg, Va. working on the "cover-up", up to 1885. "Just":
Real or NOT real... THAT is the question; show YOUR "proof"!
8)
bigscoop
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 13,541
- Reaction score
- 9,078
- Golden Thread
- 0
- Location
- Wherever there be treasure!
- Detector(s) used
- Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- #32
Thread Owner
Re: Nod & a wink here...
And they're doing a fine, fine job! Documentation popping up everywhere. However, .....why did they need a cover story for something that nobody knew existed. Do you really think these super smart people would have been so stupid to have drawn attantion to something that was already "a super safe secret" through the use of a "highly attractive" cover story? Your arguement makes no common sense Reb. None. Zero. Zilch. 
Rebel - KGC said:
NO Morriss Hotel is mentioned (Scoop "post" # 28); Buford Tavern? MAYBE REBS stayed with Paschal Bufoord, a FRIEND of Gen. Robert E. Lee;
From the BEALE PAPERS? LOL! ROFL! Had attorneys like Jubal A. Early in Lynchburg, Va. working on the "cover-up", up to 1885. "Just":
Real or NOT real... THAT is the question; show YOUR "proof"!
And they're doing a fine, fine job! Documentation popping up everywhere.
However, .....why did they need a cover story for something that nobody knew existed. Do you really think these super smart people would have been so stupid to have drawn attantion to something that was already "a super safe secret" through the use of a "highly attractive" cover story? Your arguement makes no common sense Reb. None. Zero. Zilch.
Justintime
Bronze Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2011
- Messages
- 1,164
- Reaction score
- 345
- Golden Thread
- 0
- Location
- Central, Alabama
- Detector(s) used
- AT Pro,Pro pointer, TRX,Whites Spectrum XLT, Whites Beachhunter ID, whites bullseye ll pinpointer
- Primary Interest:
- Other
All the research in the world want help you without the key..LOL...
bigscoop
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 13,541
- Reaction score
- 9,078
- Golden Thread
- 0
- Location
- Wherever there be treasure!
- Detector(s) used
- Older blue Excal with full mods, Equinox 800.
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
- #34
Thread Owner
Justintime said:
Brother.....you said a mouthful there!
Without the key and/or a corresponding clear, clean, 100% text for C1, may as well toss darts into the blind abyss.
Justintime
Bronze Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2011
- Messages
- 1,164
- Reaction score
- 345
- Golden Thread
- 0
- Location
- Central, Alabama
- Detector(s) used
- AT Pro,Pro pointer, TRX,Whites Spectrum XLT, Whites Beachhunter ID, whites bullseye ll pinpointer
- Primary Interest:
- Other
That's right.
Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
SNICKERING...
CIPHER(S)? KEY? DON'T need NO stinking CIPHER(S) nor KEY! Look at HISTORY! LOL! ROFL!
CIPHER(S)? KEY? DON'T need NO stinking CIPHER(S) nor KEY! Look at HISTORY! LOL! ROFL!
Justintime
Bronze Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2011
- Messages
- 1,164
- Reaction score
- 345
- Golden Thread
- 0
- Location
- Central, Alabama
- Detector(s) used
- AT Pro,Pro pointer, TRX,Whites Spectrum XLT, Whites Beachhunter ID, whites bullseye ll pinpointer
- Primary Interest:
- Other
Research alone will not help. Yes, history its good to know, I love history. But, how will that help pinpoint the exact location. No keys, no cipher, L.O.L..!!! you are smart surely you know better than that. To much research will get you off track. I know.
Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
"BT" or NOT "BT"... THAT is the question.
"Just",TY for YOUR opinion! If you know "the BEALE" is REAL... PROVE IT! NOW! MY research hasn't taken me off-track... maybe YOURS does. AND! Here is ANOTHER''Google" for you; A THEORY ON BEALE & THE BEALE PAMPHLET by Brad Andrews. I "differ" with Brad, in that MY research indicate BOTH Thomas J. Beale & Robert MORRISS are ASSUMED names to "hide" their TRUE identities! WHAT are we "looking" for? RAW Gold, Silver & Jewelry from the "BE" era? OR... COINS from the CONFEDERATE TREASURY or where "IT" went? YOU tell me...
"Just",TY for YOUR opinion! If you know "the BEALE" is REAL... PROVE IT! NOW! MY research hasn't taken me off-track... maybe YOURS does. AND! Here is ANOTHER''Google" for you; A THEORY ON BEALE & THE BEALE PAMPHLET by Brad Andrews. I "differ" with Brad, in that MY research indicate BOTH Thomas J. Beale & Robert MORRISS are ASSUMED names to "hide" their TRUE identities! WHAT are we "looking" for? RAW Gold, Silver & Jewelry from the "BE" era? OR... COINS from the CONFEDERATE TREASURY or where "IT" went? YOU tell me... Rebel - KGC
Platinum Member
Re: Jefferson? NAW... CSA!
"Scoop", you asked... WHY a "cover story"? To hide the "adventures" of REBS hiding the FIRST deposit in the 2nd year of the CONFEDERATE WAR, with the second (and LAST) deposit made after Richmond fell, and the yanks "were coming". It MAY WELL BE, that the "BP" was to alert "PRE-SELECTED" ppl that ALL was well. It was a CSA "SPY" thing... YOU wouldn't understand.
"Scoop", you asked... WHY a "cover story"? To hide the "adventures" of REBS hiding the FIRST deposit in the 2nd year of the CONFEDERATE WAR, with the second (and LAST) deposit made after Richmond fell, and the yanks "were coming". It MAY WELL BE, that the "BP" was to alert "PRE-SELECTED" ppl that ALL was well. It was a CSA "SPY" thing... YOU wouldn't understand.
Justintime
Bronze Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2011
- Messages
- 1,164
- Reaction score
- 345
- Golden Thread
- 0
- Location
- Central, Alabama
- Detector(s) used
- AT Pro,Pro pointer, TRX,Whites Spectrum XLT, Whites Beachhunter ID, whites bullseye ll pinpointer
- Primary Interest:
- Other
Read ,and research ,all you want, at the end of the day you will still be reading. I hope theirs not a hole at every THEORETICAL .LOCATION .. there would be a lot of holes to fill back in. Researching is part of it ,but don't get you in. LOL.
- Status
Top Member Reactions
-
2762 -
2125 -
1268 -
1159 -
921 -
917 -
863 -
811 -
632 -
632 -
610 -
595 -
561 -
560 -
534
