Its End Game

[Rebel - KGC]

Just not going to let pride alone completely sell me on any one theory. You call it "creating" but I call it still looking for the true source behind the tale, something that can be confirmed and verified VS manufactured through pure speculation and presented as fact. One has to think that your "all in the family and and a fictional tale for parlor entertainment only" is some pretty darn creative speculation in itself. Yes? Sorry buddy, but nothing in all of that creative speculation to draw upon a matter of conclusive fact. Just isn't. I wish there was. Maybe some day, if you keep looking, you'll find that smoking gun you're still lacking.

"Smoking Gun"...? LOL! Started when Thomas Beale, Sr. shot James Beverly Risque... heh.
AGAIN, "Google" One Letter, One Enclosure; SUBJECT: The Beale Treasure. HH! Good Luck! HOLY Coffee...?

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Speaking of the smoking gun, wasn't Ward's grandfather, James Beverly Risqué wounded in a duel with Thomas Beale over the honor of Julia Hancock?
Did Julia Hancock marry William Clark of Lewis and Clark who departed from Fincastle for their expedition?
Did Ward's wife Harriet grow up 4 miles from her uncle's Buford's Tavern and knew Robert Morriss since childhood?
Did Ward and his Hutter and Kennerley cousins spend time in St Louis?
Was Ward's great uncle, John Pickrell Risque involve with inspecting gold & silver mines in New Mexico and Arizona?
Were Ward's Hutter cousins officers in the Confederacy and used ciphers during "the 2nd year of the Confederate War?
Did Robert Morriss die at Ward's daughter's home during the "2nd year of the Confederate War".
Did the "game is worth the candle" come from Shakespeare and were Ward's father and cousin Sherman Lynchburg thespians?
Did a story about a treasure of gold, silver, and jewelry appear in THE LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, when John Sherman was sub-editor?
Did Ward apply for copyright as agent on a borrowed letterhead from where his son-in-law worked?
A lot of "all in the family" influence can be found in the 1885 Beale Papers.

Found all this info, TOO! ALL this & MORE! Heh...

 

[ECS]

Speaking of the smoking gun, wasn't Ward's grandfather, James Beverly Risqué wounded in a duel with Thomas Beale over the honor of Julia Hancock?
Did Julia Hancock marry William Clark of Lewis and Clark who departed from Fincastle for their expedition?
Did Ward's wife Harriet grow up 4 miles from her uncle's Buford's Tavern and knew Robert Morriss since childhood?
Did Ward and his Hutter and Kennerley cousins spend time in St Louis?
Was Ward's great uncle, John Pickrell Risque involve with inspecting gold & silver mines in New Mexico and Arizona?
Were Ward's Hutter cousins officers in the Confederacy and used ciphers during "the 2nd year of the Confederate War?
Did Robert Morriss die at Ward's daughter's home during the "2nd year of the Confederate War".
Did the "game is worth the candle" come from Shakespeare and were Ward's father and cousin Sherman Lynchburg thespians?
Did a story about a treasure of gold, silver, and jewelry appear in THE LYNCHBURG VIRGINIAN, when John Sherman was sub-editor?
Did Ward apply for copyright as agent on a borrowed letterhead from where his son-in-law worked?
A lot of "all in the family" influence can be found in the 1885 Beale Papers.

"Urgent business in Richmond" during the "2nd year of the Confederate War" could well have been Harriet Otey Ward's great aunt, Lucy Mina Otey.
Observing the deplorable conditions on hospitals under CSA military coordinator, Dr William Otway Owen who told 60 yo widow Otey that a women's place was at home sewing and making wound bandages, not working in a hospital, she traveled to Richmond from Lynchburg and demanded a meeting with CSA President Jefferson Davis.
Davis commissioned Mrs Otey as a Confederate Captain and she established the Relief Hospital at the Union Hotel in Lynchburg.
Under her direction, the Relief Hospital has the lowest mortality rate of any military hospital during the War, be it Confederate or Union.
CSA Capt Lucy Mina Otey lost three sons and one son-in-law during that War and passed away May 23, 1866.

 

[ECS]

Now we can't directly connect Ward to the Beale of Richmond, but what year is it narrated that the author claims that he first learned of the events? Ward joins the lodge in Richmond in the 1860's, this being almost dead nuts the same period that the author claims he first learned of the events in the narration. A Thomas J. Beale was from Richmond, an alderman, the only confirmed Thomas J. Beale of the entire era. What important business affairs did the author have in Richmond, as he references in the narration, that caused him to be drawn away from his interviews with Morriss? Very off that both the copyright holder and the exact name of the narration's main character and his general description can be traced to Richmond. Nothing conclusive, mind you, but more then enough to leave the current and very reasonable door of possibility open.

PS: Not concerned if the any of the narration is actually true or just fiction...

Well, maybe James Beverly Ward drove Lucy Mina Otey to Richmond at the request of Harriet, his wife, and while she spoke with CSA President Jefferson Davis he met Thomas J Beale on his way to Freemason Dove Lodge # 51.

 

[releventchair]

"Urgent business in Richmond" during the "2nd year of the Confederate War" could well have been Harriet Otey Ward's great aunt, Lucy Mina Otey.
Observing the deplorable conditions on hospitals under CSA military coordinator, Dr William Otway Owen who told 60 yo widow Otey that a women's place was at home sewing and making wound bandages, not working in a hospital, she traveled to Richmond from Lynchburg and demanded a meeting with CSA President Jefferson Davis.
Davis commissioned Mrs Otey as a Confederate Captain and she established the Relief Hospital at the Union Hotel in Lynchburg.
Under her direction, the Relief Hospital has the lowest mortality rate of any military hospital during the War, be it Confederate or Union.
CSA Capt Lucy Mina Otey lost three sons and one son-in-law during that War and passed away May 23, 1866.

Stout and another name Moore come up in hospital's with Moore heading up the medical corps organisation.
With (?) Mrs Otay involved in the south's woman's corp , version of a sanitary commission , that was a big deal.

 

[bigscoop]

Well, maybe James Beverly Ward drove Lucy Mina Otey to Richmond at the request of Harriet, his wife, and while she spoke with CSA President Jefferson Davis he met Thomas J Beale on his way to Freemason Dove Lodge # 51.

.....Well, as long as it has the all in the family connection then I'm certain those are the only type of possibilities you're considering.

 

[ECS]

.....Well, as long as it has the all in the family connection then I'm certain those are the only type of possibilities you're considering.

The "2nd year of the Confederate War" version of the Beale Papers is called "Driving Mrs Lucy".

 

[ECS]

In 1863, Richmond was the Capitol of the Confederate States of America, the Capitol of the State of Virginia, and Richmond city government, which was divided into Wards.
Scroll down this site for a listing of the Richmond city government:
1863 Richmond Directory
Notice there is NO Jackson Ward in 1863 Richmond.
Jackson Ward was created in 1871 during Reconstruction by the Federal government, then IT BECAME "a thriving black community" of freedmen and freemen born of color.

In 1863 Richmond, a group of freemen born of color formed the RICHMOND HOWITZERS, and fought for the Confederacy.
Was the future Jackson Ward Alderman part of this militia?

 

[bigscoop]

I think you're letting the title "Jackson Ward" distract you too much as that region of Richmond had been thriving for years, who cares when it was officially designated? The narration was published in 1885, many years past Jackson Ward's official designation.

 

[ECS]

...and your point, Bigscoop?

 

[bigscoop]

...and your point, Bigscoop?

My point is that the T.J. Beale of Richmond had to of been "in that region of the city" for quite some time in order to be an alderman for the district that would eventually become officially designated Jackson Ward. The actual date of the offical naming of the district holds no relevance at all.

 

[bigscoop]

Humor me a bit and consider the following as a possible future course of research;

"A district alderman's expected duties revolve around the representation of that district, this including working with city officials and residents/businesses in the planning and management of said district."

My point here being simply that this TJ Beale had to be, at the very least, familiar with said district, it's businesses, etc., etc., which means he didn't just show up in said district as a district newbie in 1884.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Humor me a bit and consider the following as a possible future course of research;

"A district alderman's expected duties revolve around the representation of that district, this including working with city officials and residents/businesses in the planning and management of said district."

My point here being simply that this TJ Beale had to be, at the very least, familiar with said district, it's businesses, etc., etc., which means he didn't just show up in said district as a district newbie in 1884.

Thomas JOHN Beale...?

 

[ECS]

My point is that the T.J. Beale of Richmond had to of been "in that region of the city" for quite some time in order to be an alderman for the district that would eventually become officially designated Jackson Ward. The actual date of the offical naming of the district holds no relevance at all.

What needs to be established is what James Beverly Ward and Alderman Thomas J Beale were doing during the "2nd year of the Confederate War".
Virginia was subject to Northern invasion at any given moment, and it has been discussed what members of Ward's and his wife's extended families were doing during the war, so what were Ward and this Beale doing during that time?

 

[bigscoop]

Thomas JOHN Beale...?

Doesn't matter "just yet" which Thomas J. Beale is in question, however, the first REALLY BIG question that is on the table is; "did Ward know any Thomas J. Beale, and then of course if this turns out to be yes, then the REALLY HUGE second question becomes, "how how this managed to escape all of the various research that has ever been done of the Beale narration?"

"If" Ward did know a Thomas J. Beale then we would then have all three main character names tied to the narration also tied together. And that, my friend, would be HUGE for obvious reasons.

 

[ECS]

...but Morriss spoke to the "unknown author" during the "2nd year of the Confederate War" and told this author the Beale story.
So how does this relate to this speculative meeting of Ward and Beale, with this Beale, as you have inferred, being the "source" of the Beale story?

 

[bigscoop]

...but Morriss spoke to the "unknown author" during the "2nd year of the Confederate War" and told this author the Beale story.
So how does this relate to this speculative meeting of Ward and Beale, with this Beale, as you have inferred, being the "source" of the Beale story?

Yes, indeed, this is an issue for sure. For one thing, if it were to turn out that Ward did know a Thomas J. Beale then suddenly things have to be considered, what you just stated being one of those issues. However, what if Morriss told the story to Ward and then, in the middle of those interviews, Ward went to Richmond in search of that Thomas J. Beale, this being the important business affairs in Richmond that the "unknown author" determined to reference right in the middle of his important interviews with Morriss? The question then becomes, "what could have been so important and relevant to the narration in Richmond that the "unknown author" would have departed from his important interviews with Morriss", this just as Morriss is allegedly telling him about a Thomas J. Beale and his secret?

Now, if I am even close to accurate in this possibility then it would bring about some obvious implications concerning the narration. The first, and most obvious being, that there must have then been "some measure of truth" to the narration. "Unless" Morriss, who was long passed away like everyone else at the time of publication, "wasn't the real source of the story."

Now I know what you're thinking, however, wait until I tell you what I now believe is the case in regards to the Thomas J. Beale of Richmond and the reason why his parents can't be located.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Yes, indeed, this is an issue for sure. For one thing, if it were to turn out that Ward did know a Thomas J. Beale then suddenly things have to be considered, what you just stated being one of those issues. However, what if Morriss told the story to Ward and then, in the middle of those interviews, Ward went to Richmond in search of that Thomas J. Beale, this being the important business affairs in Richmond that the "unknown author" determined to reference right in the middle of his important interviews with Morriss? The question then becomes, "what could have been so important and relevant to the narration in Richmond that the "unknown author" would have departed from his important interviews with Morriss", this just as Morriss is allegedly telling him about a Thomas J. Beale and his secret?

Now, if I am even close to accurate in this possibility then it would bring about some obvious implications concerning the narration. The first, and most obvious being, that there must have then been "some measure of truth" to the narration. "Unless" Morriss, who was long passed away like everyone else at the time of publication, "wasn't the real source of the story."

Now I know what you're thinking, however, wait until I tell you what I now believe is the case in regards to the Thomas J. Beale of Richmond and the reason why his parents can't be located.

DO tell!

 

[ECS]

...
Now I know what you're thinking, however, wait until I tell you what I now believe is the case in regards to the Thomas J. Beale of Richmond and the reason why his parents can't be located.

I reckon you do.
Will this involved a limerick or an epitaph and contain "authentic statements" about the life of Alderman Thomas J Beale and the events that lead to his relation to Ward's 1885 Beale Papers dime novel job pamphlet?

 

[bigscoop]

I reckon you do.
Will this involved a limerick or an epitaph and contain "authentic statements" about the life of Alderman Thomas J Beale and the events that lead to his relation to Ward's 1885 Beale Papers dime novel job pamphlet?

......well......not quite.