Is this real?

[divewrecks]

Sorry, here are the other two....

 

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[Zephyr]

Beautiful, just beautiful...

They also clipped or hammered the sharper edges or points back then so that the coins wouldn't slice through the bags.

 

[divewrecks]

Beautiful, just beautiful...

They also clipped or hammered the sharper edges or points back then so that the coins wouldn't slice through the bags.

Thank you for the compliment Zephyr. I never thought about the bag thing, but makes sense. Do you have a book reference to such a practice. Not disputing at all, just wondering if there is a written reference to this practice.

 

[Zephyr]

IIRC it was something like "Spanish colonial silver coins in the Florida collection". Can't remember the author's name offhand, but he mentioned picking up a bag of silver cobs, and the pointy ones poked him through the bag (and would slice through it eventually with enough handling.) It also had LOTS of pics.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Yeah, I guess that was not very illustrative of the direction of this conversation. I just love holding that one. It is near full weight, so I'm sure you know how "thick" it is if you are a collector. I'll post a pic of another coin showing sharp edges...Stan

Nice cob, Stan. Yes it does have sharp edges. It also has two little spurs (circled in red) that you might see after cutting heavy metal with powerful snips. My cob has one also.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

My cob also has these gouged out areas, (I dont know what to call them) where there are no markings. What caused these? Are they gouged out before or after hammering?

 

[Zephyr]

For some reason, the Mexico mint often hammered their cobs into a round(er) shape AFTER striking them between the dies. Looks like a couple of hammer blows to me. (Not much time for quality control when you're trying to rush out a million+ cobs a year. )

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

For some reason, the Mexico mint often hammered their cobs into a round(er) shape AFTER striking them between the dies. Looks like a couple of hammer blows to me. (Not much time for quality control when you're trying to rush out a million+ cobs a year. )

Those are hammer blows? It the cob were cheese, it looks like some small slices or slivers were taken from it. It looks to me like the silver was "sliced" after it was hammered. But that cannot be, can it?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have never seen a found cut cob reale with that sharp an edge or the multiple angles your shows. The only way it is real is if was freshly dropped out of someones collection. How?, I would not know. Also it should read high on the silver scale. I would bet it does not. Take it to a coin dealer, they will tell you for sure.Ed D.

That is what started the identification problem. A coin dealer, who I also considered a friend, told me that it appeared to be a cast silver fake. He didnt even want to buy it. That was back in the ealy 80's, I believe. Good thing, I guess, because i kept it in my junk box all these years. I believe now that IT IS REAL and you would have to show me proof for me to think otherwise. The link you sent me about someone seeding the beach with fake cobs was interesting, but does not look anything like mine. Besides mine is silver. Those beach seeds were obvious worthless pot metal souvenirs. If my cob is counterfeit, it is a very good silver one. Thanks for trying to help anyway.

 

[divewrecks]

I have never seen a found cut cob reale with that sharp an edge or the multiple angles your shows. The only way it is real is if was freshly dropped out of someones collection. How?, I would not know. Also it should read high on the silver scale. I would bet it does not. Take it to a coin dealer, they will tell you for sure.Ed D.

That is what started the identification problem. A coin dealer, who I also considered a friend, told me that it appeared to be a cast silver fake. He didnt even want to buy it. That was back in the ealy 80's, I believe. Good thing, I guess, because i kept it in my junk box all these years. I believe now that IT IS REAL and you would have to show me proof for me to think otherwise. The link you sent me about someone seeding the beach with fake cobs was interesting, but does not look anything like mine. Besides mine is silver. Those beach seeds were obvious worthless pot metal souvenirs. If my cob is counterfeit, it is a very good silver one. Thanks for trying to help anyway.

I would be happy to own your cob sir. Let these other guys think what they like. If you want to see hammered I can show several from Mexico. Not as common hammered in Peru (modern Bolivia) Stan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I will keep it, thanks.

Is that what the slices are hammered?

 

[divewrecks]

I will keep it, thanks.

Is that what the slices are hammered?

That is by belief from what silver I have ever seen or handled from Mexico produced in that era. Possibly different on the gold, which unfortunately I know less about.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I will keep it, thanks.

Is that what the slices are hammered?

That is by belief from what silver I have ever seen or handled from Mexico produced in that era. Possibly different on the gold, which unfortunately I know less about.

Must be a big hammer. They also must hammer it after it is stamped, because these areas are smooth and absent of any markings.

 

[divewrecks]

Must be a big hammer. They also must hammer it after it is stamped, because these areas are smooth and absent of any markings.

Picture a slice of material (called a "planchet") that is thicker in the middle than on the hamered, faceted edges. Now picture this planchet of uneven cross-section being struck with two essentially flat die faces and you will understand why the edges don't get imprinted with markings. The hammers were probably good sized, but the material (silver) was preheated to make it more ductile (so the striking operation would be less likely to cause edge cracks). Stan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I got it. I will look at mine closer.

 

[IndianRiverSonrise]

Similar looking cobs are described in auction catelogs and other books as having "heavy edge filing." I don't think I've seen "filing" mentioned in the above (although I skipped a lot this time so I might have missed it) and it might be applicable. Filing would be a good way to cut the cob down to the intended weight.

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

I think spurs were caused by the end of the tool used to clip the planchets, or the metal became too thin to support the tool's shearing action and the planchet snapped off.

I think the things to look at with cob production are: the heat of the metal before the strike, the anealing of the metal before the strike, the smoothness of the planchet before the stirke, and the amount of force used to make the strike.

The thing with a coin having that many hammer facets and such a small die strike area is that it seems like it might have cracked at least once. It might have been anealed between each hammer strike, but that seems like a real slow way to make a coin, like 15 minutes or so of heating, striking, and quenching, heating, striking, and quenching. Then the guy ended up with a tiny little die strike on one facet of the planchet. It looks kind of unusual because of this.

There is a 1710 Lima 4 escudos that was struck with a 4 reals front. It's in the Florida Collection book. I didn't know SFDB or Cartagena used the same backs on both gold and silver. I will have to check into this some more.

Divewreck's coin is interesting because it seems to have captured the shape of two tools used at the Mexico mint: some sort of hammer roller, and the exact shape of the shear's blade used to clip the planchets. GG.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I visited the McLarty Museum in Sebastian and it was great. http://atocha1622.com/mclarty.htm
A pamphlet I picked up about silver reales says "They were sliced off silver bar stock, trimmed by pinching away little pieces until the proper weight as obtained. Then the coin would be struck..."

I thought they appeared sliced like cheese. But my question would be how and what were they "sliced" with?