Is this real?

[Marc]

I can finally put this issue to rest. It is reale.

Wow! I stand corrected! Congrats!

Marc

 

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[IndianRiverSonrise]

This is my contribution to the new cob forum, moved from "What is it?", found many years ago. I am trying to find out if this is counterfit, copy, or reale. I was advised to weigh it. I have yet to find anyone with a gram scale. It weighs .90 oz. on the Post Office scale.

I know this doesn't add much to the question of authenticity (which I think has been settled), but here is an 8 that on superficial inspection seems to me to match up rather well with yours. It's an Felipe V, 8, Mexico mint, circa 1701-1733, Referring to Monedas Espanolas desde Juana y Carlos a Isabel II. According to this work, I think it would be classified as a type 117. Just thought you might be like me and like to match your cobs with other examples.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Yes, I believe thats it. I know nothing about cobs, and mine has no date, but this type would have been around in 1715. I see yours appears to have a date of 1719. I compared mine with a cob found on the beach more recently and it had identical markings.





Thanks Marc.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

This is my contribution to the new cob forum, moved from "What is it?", found many years ago. I am trying to find out if this is counterfit, copy, or reale. I was advised to weigh it. I have yet to find anyone with a gram scale. It weighs .90 oz. on the Post Office scale.

I know this doesn't add much to the question of authenticity (which I think has been settled), but here is an 8 that on superficial inspection seems to me to match up rather well with yours. It's an Felipe V, 8, Mexico mint, circa 1701-1733, Referring to Monedas Espanolas desde Juana y Carlos a Isabel II. According to this work, I think it would be classified as a type 117. Just thought you might be like me and like to match your cobs with other examples.

What happened? Did you change the picture?

 

[lisfisher]

I'm far from a coin expert but were'nt these coins initially hammered, and then clipped as needed? I would think a clipped edge would look similair to the coin in the picture, no?

 

[IndianRiverSonrise]

This is my contribution to the new cob forum, moved from "What is it?", found many years ago. I am trying to find out if this is counterfit, copy, or reale. I was advised to weigh it. I have yet to find anyone with a gram scale. It weighs .90 oz. on the Post Office scale.

I know this doesn't add much to the question of authenticity (which I think has been settled), but here is an 8 that on superficial inspection seems to me to match up rather well with yours. It's an Felipe V, 8, Mexico mint, circa 1701-1733, Referring to Monedas Espanolas desde Juana y Carlos a Isabel II. According to this work, I think it would be classified as a type 117. Just thought you might be like me and like to match your cobs with other examples.

What happened? Did you change the picture?

Must have. It probably got deleted when I cleaned out my FTP space. Sorry.

 

[Michigan Badger]

The cob looks pretty good to me. But an "expert" would have to check it out. Three "experts" would most likely come to at least three conclusions.

I've cleaned more cobs than I can even recall (shipwreck to land digs). The cleaning method greatly affects edges and detail. The rock tumbler was widely used in Mel Fisher's era (many still use it for cobs) and it tends to round corners and make many think the cob is fake.

I once cleaned a bunch of fresh dug copper cobs and they were presented to a coin grading firm. The verdict was they were all fakes. The truth is they were all genuine.

The method of cleaning greatly affects the opinions of the "experts."

The one sure test for fakes is to find two with the exact same wear marks and shape. That never happens in the real world of reales.

Badger

 

[divewrecks]

The coin is definitely authentic. The edge shape is quite common in a Mexican cob of that era and resulted more from pre-hammering the planchet (prior to the actual strike) rather than clipping. I have never heard of cleaning a cob via tumbling, certainly something anybody of note would ever do unless he was just removing silver sulfide from a badly corroded and/or encrusted coin with only melt value being in mind. The proper technique is to use electro-chemical cleaning.

 

[Born2Dtect]

I have never seen a found cut cob reale with that sharp an edge or the multiple angles your shows. The only way it is real is if was freshly dropped out of someones collection. How?, I would not know. Also it should read high on the silver scale. I would bet it does not. Take it to a coin dealer, they will tell you for sure.

Ed D.

 

[divewrecks]

I have never seen a found cut cob reale with that sharp an edge or the multiple angles your shows. The only way it is real is if was freshly dropped out of someones collection. How?, I would not know. Also it should read high on the silver scale. I would bet it does not. Take it to a coin dealer, they will tell you for sure.

Ed D.

I disagree. It is real, I have many authentic with this feature. Ask Sedwick or some other pro if you need clarification. Hammering edges was not to uncommom with Mexican mint coins of this era and the bars that planchets were cut from featured odd shapes. See my offer to by from July of last year which still stands. The earalier statement "The only way it is real is if was freshly dropped out of someones collection." is stupid. Not only would this not cause gross deformation (even if dropped from the empire state building), It would not effect the coin as shown. There is no susbstituite for learning,eithervthrough reading or discussion with a true expert. zif you need any references please feel free to PM me.

Stan

 

[Trez]

I have never seen a found cut cob reale with that sharp an edge or the multiple angles your shows. The only way it is real is if was freshly dropped out of someones collection. How?, I would not know. Also it should read high on the silver scale. I would bet it does not. Take it to a coin dealer, they will tell you for sure.

Ed D.

Wow, Ed...

Just curious...how many Mexico minted cobs...circa Philip V have you found?
Many of the ones found here...are often in mint condition, cut many angles, shaved, hammered, clipped...cobs like the one shown, is commonily found in that condition if not better from this area.

To make a statement like "the only way it is real is if was freshly dropped out of someones collection" is absurd...especially from this neck of the woods.

Trez

 

[Born2Dtect]

It would appear that I did not state my opinion well. I have seen 5 or so cut cobs, found one (Potosi mint 1675-1725). All were field dug. The edges were well rounded and worn. I do not claim to be an expert. Reales were counterfeited. Some counterfeits I have seen had the well defined edge like the one in question. Bottom line I would take to a dealer or expert as he appears to have done. I you stop and think about it, a coin from a collection (stolen or taken) or one that was coming form the mint and lost would be in great condition and have crisp edges. I have not seen a cut cob found on the beach. I would never accuse anyone of posting a false story. I will continue to assume that all post are legitimate until proven other wise. I 100% believe that this coin was found by the member as stated. Don,t read too much into my posts, I am not that clever or able to stealthily imply anything. I did see a counterfit / souvenir very similar to the posted coin around the first of this month.

Ed D.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I did see a counterfit / souvenir very similar to the posted coin around the first of this month.

Ed D.

If you can find a pic or the link, I would like to see it... honestly... that is why I asked "is it real." I know very little about cobs and I thought it was counterfeit all these years, until I posted it here. I have since had the silver tested and shown it to experienced TN members at the Sebastian Inlet cookout.. I believe it to be real at this time. I personally compared it with other beach found cobs and the markings are identical. It is certainly not a souvenir.
Thanks for your opinion, Stan, even though it differs from all the others. The cob that you found, and the few that you have seen, may have been worn in circulation, thus being rounded on the edges. Its most likely that this cob, stamped in Mexico, has not been circulated yet and never will be. Just a guess. Maybe if you could see it and hold it. Its a nice feeling holding a heavy cob in your hand that may have all that history.

 

[divewrecks]

BigCypress, howdy sir. You said (apparently to me since you used my name “Stan”) “The cob that you found, and the few that you have seen, may have been worn in circulation, thus being rounded on the edges.”

I have never personally found a cob in my searches, but have a considerable collection (probably close to 50 certified coins now). I have handled many more and have just about every reference book on cobs (including the rare ones), so I don’t consider myself a newbie.

I understand what you mean when you said “Its a nice feeling holding a heavy cob in your hand that may have all that history.” I had to open my safe and feel some of my chunky 8’s. Almost as good as sex. PM me if you want to see any specific examples from what I got. Also, my offer to buy still stands.

Stan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im sorry Stan. I meant to say Ed. (Born2detect). I somehow got your names mixed up.

It would appear that I did not state my opinion well. I have seen 5 or so cut cobs, found one (Potosi mint 1675-1725). All were field dug. The edges were well rounded and worn. I do not claim to be an expert. Reales were counterfeited. Some counterfeits I have seen had the well defined edge like the one in question. Bottom line I would take to a dealer or expert as he appears to have done. I you stop and think about it, a coin from a collection (stolen or taken) or one that was coming form the mint and lost would be in great condition and have crisp edges. I have not seen a cut cob found on the beach. I would never accuse anyone of posting a false story. I will continue to assume that all post are legitimate until proven other wise. I 100% believe that this coin was found by the member as stated. Don,t read too much into my posts, I am not that clever or able to stealthily imply anything. I did see a counterfit / souvenir very similar to the posted coin around the first of this month.

Ed D.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I understand what you mean when you said “Its a nice feeling holding a heavy cob in your hand that may have all that history.” I had to open my safe and feel some of my chunky 8’s. Almost as good as sex.

That is a good one-word description-- chunky. Chunky 8's.

 

[divewrecks]

Chunky Junky

Fun to hold.....

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

From looking at your cob, Stan, I can see what Ed is saying about the rounded edges, but I think that only means that some cobs are worn from circulation or from the surf.

 

[divewrecks]

Yeah, I guess that was not very illustrative of the direction of this conversation. I just love holding that one. It is near full weight, so I'm sure you know how "thick" it is if you are a collector. I'll post a pic of another coin showing sharp edges...Stan

 

[divewrecks]

Here ya go. 17xx Mexico, cool hammering & sharp edges, no saltwater....