Is the Pit Mine really the Lost Dutchman mine?

sgtfda said:
The LDM expedition is gathering. Perhaps best to meet to discuss after membership is final. Lets get a list of those interested.
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Count me out - too far away; also, I think it may be very premature to call it the "LDM expedition" when you are heading up to look at a mine in an area that was known to have over two dozen silver mines and not one gold mine. Gold was found in some of them, but they were basically silver mines. I noticed that no one has offered an assay result from ore from the Pit mine. I don't expect that the assay would match, assays from ore samples vary considerably, however one feature would be a high gold to silver ratio. Gold veins from silver mines usually have quite a lot of silver in with them - and Waltz's ore had very little silver in it compared to the gold.

The fact that the Pit mine is located in the area where so many other active claims were being worked in the late 1870s is a huge red flag for me, if that were really the LDM, then it stands to reason that Waltz should have been extremely nervous about others being in his area digging, and he would have no further reason to avoid filing a claim on his mine.

One thing too - if you find a rich pocket of gold, or for some of us, of silver, (I know some of you would not deign to soil yourselves by packing out worthless silver) but if you go out looking for a lost mine and find a rich deposit of precious metals, does it really matter if it was the LDM or another mine? For myself, that is not an issue - however please do continue with the case for the Pit mine being the LDM.

Oroblanco
 

sgtfda said:
The LDM expedition is gathering. Perhaps best to meet to discuss after membership is final. Lets get a list of those interested.
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IM IN FRANK....FALCON, ACE, WHITES..pans, shovels.....4x4....i gotz it!
 

Roy. You never know on these things. Now lets say we find a 45lc casing from the period and a napkin from the ice cream shop. Name a other pinpointed area. We will check it. I was nugget shooting and I found a rare shell casing. 100 feet away I fount the bullet that was fired from that casing. What is nice in this area things don't sink into soft dirt. It's all rock.
Tim your in. One thing this time of year the weather is perfect. I'm going to run this past Jack and see if he may be interested in some involvement. Paul you can jump in when you get out this way. This won't be done in a day. Perhaps we can clean up the area while we're at it. We will need to clean out the junk anyway to get at any old items.
 

The only way to go over a area like the Pitt is a grid search with various equipment. Trust me there are items there. I approach areas like this just as I would a crime scene. We need to do the same.
 

I would like to join the group going out there if you`ll have me. I`m somewhat familiar with the area(4 times). I have a Garret AT Pro that needs broke in(not broken). 4x4.. Plus I want to check out some caves just north of Angel Springs, and the doorway that I saw up high on the west side on my last hike, and some other stuff too.
 

393stroker said:
I would like to join the group going out there if you`ll have me. I`m somewhat familiar with the area(4 times). I have a Garret AT Pro that needs broke in(not broken). 4x4.. Plus I want to check out some caves just north of Angel Springs, and the doorway that I saw up high on the west side on my last hike, and some other stuff too.
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Your in. Not everyone would be able to make every trip in or meeting. But we will all be kept up to date on progress. Ill coordinate everything everyone pm me your phone and email.
 

More info for you to chew on, before you rush to go check out that Pit mine, and before you conclude that it is the Lost Dutchman mine:


Randolph district This district is some 14 miles northwest from Pinal City in the foot hills of the Superstition range of mountains. The Randolph was the first discovery of importance made in this section This mine is located on a ledge that measures over 40 feet in width and can be plainly traced by its outcroppings for several miles across the country. The ores are carbonate and chloride of silver assays of which run from $30 to $1,000 to the ton. Considerable work has been done in opening the vein.

The Diamond Peak is a more recent location It shows unusually large quartz outcroppings which carry oxides and argentiferous galena. There are also a number of small veins of rich appearance that center in the main ledge and which give indications of gold. The Snow flake is one and a half miles easterly from this location It shows a vein 3 feet in width on the surface which carries horn silver chlorides aud argentiferous galena . The ledge is in a granite formation

The Germania is 2 miles southwest of the latter on another ledge that shows massive outcroppings of silver bearing quartz. A large gold quartz ledge has also recently been discovered in this district which can readily be traced for a considerable distance by its croppings. Little work other than assessment has been done on any of the locations of this district on account most likely of its being remotely situated and somewhat difficult of access If however the discoveries prove as voluble as anticipated capital and enterprise will be attracted

This district extends into Pima County in which some fine mining properties are located that will be noticed in notes upon that county
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Report of the Director of the Mint Upon the Production of the Precious Metals, 1881, pp 279-280

Please note the passages I put in BOLD - they found some gold in the Randolph district - now if that Pit mine were the LDM, with all the attention and activity even making it to the Director of the Mint, don't you think Waltz would have been at the least, very nervous, and rush to go file a claim? I think he would, for the Randolph mine was first found in 1877, and Waltz was still active at that time - yet he was utterly un-concerned about the activity in that area. Doesn't that tell you something?

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2:
 

I think he would, for the Randolph mine was first found in 1877, and Waltz was still active at that time
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Roy, do you mean active as far as actively mining? How do we know that? According to what he told Julia and Reiney in Ely's book, he never went back to do any work in the mine since after his partner was killed about 1870, and apparently had only gone back one time to recover the small cache between 1870 and 1890.

Maybe he had as much or more to fear after 1877 from the folks out there digging around in the Roger's Mining District as he had before that from the Apache?
 

sgtfda said:
Joe R would you like to be a group member. After all you started this mess.
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Of course I would. I would also like to be Peyton Manning. I made my last trip into the Supe's in 2004. A few years ago Tom K. asked me to ride in with Bob Corbin and himself for a weekend campout. I had to turn them down. Hated to say no, but knew my body would not take another trip. For me, things have gotten worse since 2004, not better.

I appreciate the offers.

I will be with you all, in spirit.

Good luck,

Joe
 

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I'm in, been chomping at the bit to get out there.

I'd still be happy just to find the wholly frying pan.
 

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roadrunner said:
Somero and I are in. He has a 4X4 pick up.
I have a Garrett groundhog,7.5 coil and 10.5 coil, and a Goldmaster V/sat.
We can go up light at first with no Mds if ya want.
Somero and I where in the area last month.

Somero you in?
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:occasion14:
 

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Cubfan64 said:
Roy, do you mean active as far as actively mining? How do we know that? According to what he told Julia and Reiney in Ely's book, he never went back to do any work in the mine since after his partner was killed about 1870, and apparently had only gone back one time to recover the small cache between 1870 and 1890.

Maybe he had as much or more to fear after 1877 from the folks out there digging around in the Roger's Mining District as he had before that from the Apache?
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We don't KNOW that Waltz did anything much - however he only became semi-reclusive and rickety in his last years. 1877 was not his last years, and some versions have it that he discovered the mine in 1878, clearly he was still able to get around and by some accounts, still making trips into the mountains. We don't know for sure what he was doing at the time of course. He certainly would have heard of the strikes in Randolph district as it was in all the papers and any new strike was the local gossip; yet Waltz did not rush out to file a claim, which would be the logical thing to do if his mine were in that area. I think we can safely rule that whole area out. Side note here but we can't put all of our trust in Ely's book either, while I do think it may be the best available starter source for anyone, both Ely and Bark were laboring under some false ideas, and there is reason to believe that a large part of the info we normally attribute to Waltz (including Bark and Ely) it could be relating to a wholly different mine, one with a funnel shaped shaft, side tunnel etc - the Peralta/Ludy brothers.

As to clues that will fit a mine, how about one that you can look down from and see an old military trail, (Stoneman's) has a pointed peak straight south of it, a spring near the mine and one farther away that is much better camping, is high up yet you have to go down to get to it, must pass a cow barn, there is a stone house across the canyon and in sight from the mine, and would also fit with Waltz logically going to Florence for supplies, as well as Weiser running away and ending up near Sacaton? The Fortuna mine fits all those clues, and was a silver mine. There was a bit of gold struck in it too. But it was not the Lost Dutchman mine. Clues alone will never seal the case to prove a mine is the Lost Dutchman. Waltz was not mining silver either.

Good luck to you guys, wish I could join you too - I love old most old mines!
Oroblanco

:coffee2: :coffee: :coffee2:
 

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