aarthrj3811
Gold Member
Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
~EE THr~
~EE THr~
That makes perfect sense as Skeptics love your list..Art
Im going to build an LRL (seriously)
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LM
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Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
Unfortunately, none of this is true and is all psuedo-scientific gibberish... however, there's tens of thousands of dollars waiting as a reward for you and your brother, if you're willing to prove your devices aren't frauds, under basic scientific controls.
Cue excuse in 3... 2... 1...
PuffDaddy said:
Unfortunately, none of this is true and is all psuedo-scientific gibberish... however, there's tens of thousands of dollars waiting as a reward for you and your brother, if you're willing to prove your devices aren't frauds, under basic scientific controls.
Cue excuse in 3... 2... 1...
fenixdigger
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Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
Good call David. Now you will see all kinds of excuses pop up. That's not fair, that's not a test, it's too hot, that's too far, no telling how foolish they will get. I can hardly wait.
I do want to say this again. 25 Grand is a small price to pay to get a reliable treasure locating procedure. I predict that if you do this, the procedure/device will be on the market in a very few months. At a very high price. Put a mustache on your equipment if you go.
Remember convincing these guys is like digging an empty hole. Some don't want to know or care, just here to argue and aggravate.
Those of us that actually do this, take their comments for what they are worth. Nada.
Good call David. Now you will see all kinds of excuses pop up. That's not fair, that's not a test, it's too hot, that's too far, no telling how foolish they will get. I can hardly wait.
I do want to say this again. 25 Grand is a small price to pay to get a reliable treasure locating procedure. I predict that if you do this, the procedure/device will be on the market in a very few months. At a very high price. Put a mustache on your equipment if you go.
Remember convincing these guys is like digging an empty hole. Some don't want to know or care, just here to argue and aggravate.
Those of us that actually do this, take their comments for what they are worth. Nada.
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LM
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Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
Actually, Carl is the one who made the challenge and its a perfectly reasonable one.
If you polled 100 scientists, all 100 scientists would agree that his protocols and controls are scientifically valid in terms of demonstrating the efficacy of Long Range Locating, so there's pretty much no debate nor need for discussion on whether his challenge is "valid" or not as far as producing a measurable, reliable outcome. It is. Period.
If your device is credible (which it is not), then go gather up your free money from Carl (which you will not do, because your device is not credible and is at best, a figment of your imagination, at worst, a fraud)
It's really that simple.
Here ya go!
http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reward.dat
So, what exactly are your excuses again?
Or do you prefer to employ the Fenix method, where science isn't valid, just this one time, and instead, regale us with grand anecdotes about LRL success, without any proof of same.
PuffDaddy said:
Actually, Carl is the one who made the challenge and its a perfectly reasonable one.
If you polled 100 scientists, all 100 scientists would agree that his protocols and controls are scientifically valid in terms of demonstrating the efficacy of Long Range Locating, so there's pretty much no debate nor need for discussion on whether his challenge is "valid" or not as far as producing a measurable, reliable outcome. It is. Period.
If your device is credible (which it is not), then go gather up your free money from Carl (which you will not do, because your device is not credible and is at best, a figment of your imagination, at worst, a fraud)
It's really that simple.
Here ya go!
http://www.geotech1.com/cgi-bin/pages/common/index.pl?page=lrl&file=reward.dat
So, what exactly are your excuses again?
Or do you prefer to employ the Fenix method, where science isn't valid, just this one time, and instead, regale us with grand anecdotes about LRL success, without any proof of same.
aarthrj3811
Gold Member
Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
~LSMorgan~
~LSMorgan~
How come all the Dictionary definitions say that Carl’s test is not a Double Blind Test? Even the one in the Skeptics Dictionary…We have read it and find that the advertisement tells the truth…Art
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LM
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Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
Even money wager. I'll post as much cash or gold as you do, winner take all... That you cannot locate buried gold from long distance away with any LRL machine you build... Or, if you want, we pick a 3 acre agfield clear of trash, bury one gold eagle at a depth of 6", I use a metal detector, you use your Long Range Locating machine and we're both limited to digging one hole, no wider than 12". If you find it and I don't, you win whatever we bet.
If I find it and you don't, I win.
If neither find it (or if we both do), its a wash.
Lets call it "science versus faith".
Ball's in your court; propose terms. I'm amicable to anything that isn't stupid.
I've offered a standing bet to LRL clowns for a while now, and it hasn't changed. If you accept, you'd be the first, but chances are, the excuses will start raining in, right about the time it requires putting "talk" into "action".
PuffDaddy said:
Even money wager. I'll post as much cash or gold as you do, winner take all... That you cannot locate buried gold from long distance away with any LRL machine you build... Or, if you want, we pick a 3 acre agfield clear of trash, bury one gold eagle at a depth of 6", I use a metal detector, you use your Long Range Locating machine and we're both limited to digging one hole, no wider than 12". If you find it and I don't, you win whatever we bet.
If I find it and you don't, I win.
If neither find it (or if we both do), its a wash.
Lets call it "science versus faith".
Ball's in your court; propose terms. I'm amicable to anything that isn't stupid.
I've offered a standing bet to LRL clowns for a while now, and it hasn't changed. If you accept, you'd be the first, but chances are, the excuses will start raining in, right about the time it requires putting "talk" into "action".
fenixdigger
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Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
Anyone want to guess how much money someone would make if a "no learning required" LRL was sold? Some units in Greece are 50,000
Euros. Just the unit. The price could be anything as you would pay for it in a few days. Granted you critics are not on your feet about
this but are you so blind that you can't see what's going on? To promote this kind of scam is shameful. Is it so important for you to
have some little something to use as an excuse to pretend you have made a point? Try to be grownup, if you don't have the stones to
go outside and disprove something, leave it alone. Quit trying to bully and scam people into giving a multimillion dollar thing to people
that don't deserve it. Pitiful !!!
Anyone want to guess how much money someone would make if a "no learning required" LRL was sold? Some units in Greece are 50,000
Euros. Just the unit. The price could be anything as you would pay for it in a few days. Granted you critics are not on your feet about
this but are you so blind that you can't see what's going on? To promote this kind of scam is shameful. Is it so important for you to
have some little something to use as an excuse to pretend you have made a point? Try to be grownup, if you don't have the stones to
go outside and disprove something, leave it alone. Quit trying to bully and scam people into giving a multimillion dollar thing to people
that don't deserve it. Pitiful !!!
fenixdigger
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Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
Morgan, you need to seriously decide if you can afford to lose a chunk of change before you go much further with that.
Morgan, you need to seriously decide if you can afford to lose a chunk of change before you go much further with that.
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LM
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Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
Read the post above you.
I'm perfectly willing to disprove the LRL fraud, by way of PuffDaddy (or anyone else willing to put their money where their mouth is... Not just talk and blather about it, but have "a family emergency" when it comes to put it to the test... To actually wager on the outcome)
"Seriously Decide"? Wake up man... This has been a standing challenge for quite some time.
I'm saying that you're all frauds and I'm willing to wager real, live money, in person, face to face, to prove it.
There are no "units in Greece that cost $50,000".
There are no functional LRL's at all.
It's a complete, utter fraud, which is why you'll never see anyone step up to prove it with anything other than anecdote or bluster. It's fake. Electronic Santa Claus.
It's not like there's even *a little* credibility to it. There's ZERO credibility to it and there are people out there- Carl Moreland being the most visible, but I'm willing to step right up there with him using my own money- to prove that you're all morons at best, frauds at worst.
Couldn't be much more clear than that. You'd certainly think that if LRL was a credible thing, someone would put me in my place by proving me wrong, but it won't ever happen. There will always be some excuse as to why they're just shy of being able to prove their devices are anything more than fiction.
For example, PuffDaddy here will probably say "I TAKE YOUR BET!"
This is where the squirming begins. He might first propose that we wager $1,500,000 and that he's only interested if I can post the cash, first... Or whatever dodge he'll use.
Lets make it simple.
Carl Moreland is offering $25,000, so lets make that the wager.
We both wager $25,000. We both have skin in the game. No talk, not even any hard feelings.
PuffDaddy, PM me your phone number and we can set it up- of if you prefer, I'll PM you mine.
Read the post above you.
I'm perfectly willing to disprove the LRL fraud, by way of PuffDaddy (or anyone else willing to put their money where their mouth is... Not just talk and blather about it, but have "a family emergency" when it comes to put it to the test... To actually wager on the outcome)
"Seriously Decide"? Wake up man... This has been a standing challenge for quite some time.
I'm saying that you're all frauds and I'm willing to wager real, live money, in person, face to face, to prove it.
There are no "units in Greece that cost $50,000".
There are no functional LRL's at all.
It's a complete, utter fraud, which is why you'll never see anyone step up to prove it with anything other than anecdote or bluster. It's fake. Electronic Santa Claus.
It's not like there's even *a little* credibility to it. There's ZERO credibility to it and there are people out there- Carl Moreland being the most visible, but I'm willing to step right up there with him using my own money- to prove that you're all morons at best, frauds at worst.
Couldn't be much more clear than that. You'd certainly think that if LRL was a credible thing, someone would put me in my place by proving me wrong, but it won't ever happen. There will always be some excuse as to why they're just shy of being able to prove their devices are anything more than fiction.
For example, PuffDaddy here will probably say "I TAKE YOUR BET!"
This is where the squirming begins. He might first propose that we wager $1,500,000 and that he's only interested if I can post the cash, first... Or whatever dodge he'll use.
Lets make it simple.
Carl Moreland is offering $25,000, so lets make that the wager.
We both wager $25,000. We both have skin in the game. No talk, not even any hard feelings.
PuffDaddy, PM me your phone number and we can set it up- of if you prefer, I'll PM you mine.
fenixdigger
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Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
Well ok then. Are you sure you don't want to visit someone that does this before you piss your money away?
Well ok then. Are you sure you don't want to visit someone that does this before you piss your money away?
Tim Williams
Full Member
Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
LSMorgan did you build your LRL yet?
LSMorgan did you build your LRL yet?
aarthrj3811
Gold Member
Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
~Tim Williams~
~Tim Williams~
Hey Tim..Remember when Carl, J Black and others designed a working MFD?...To bad that it was illegal to sell..
woof!
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Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
Sounds like fun, but it's my 1-ounce gold coin at stake so make it easy. I'm in El Paso, where are you?
--Toto
PuffDaddy said:
Sounds like fun, but it's my 1-ounce gold coin at stake so make it easy. I'm in El Paso, where are you?
--Toto
woof!
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Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
Rockhound, I'm willing to lose a 1-ounce gold bullion coin to an LRL. Heck, it'd be an historical event!
However, I'm not willing to lose it to fraud. Nor am I willing to go on a wild goose chase at my expense and then have the LRL user be a no-show.
The "LRL" in this context must be of the hand-held swivelling L-rod type and must purport to utilize electronic enhancement. I'm not interested in demos of ordinary dowsing rods or of (for instance) military standoff radar.
The site will be less than one acre (an acre is approximately 44,000 square feet, equivalent to a square 210 feet on a side). Prior to the start the LRL demonstrator will be told where the boundaries are in order to avoid searching outside the area where the coin is buried. The coin will not be buried so close to a poorly defined boundary as to create the possibility of confusion whether it's inside or outside the boundary. "Locating" consists of actually retrieving the coin within 15 minutes of the start. No "scouting out the site first" will be permitted. A metal detector may not be used for searching, but may be used to assist in retrieval once the LRL user has identified and marked a point at the center of a 12 foot diameter circle within which the retrieval attempt will take place. The coin will be buried less than 8 inches deep and will be easily recoverable. Only one locate & retrieval attempt is allowed: once you identify the center of the 12 foot circle within which you intend to make the retrieval, you're committed. If within the allotted 15 minutes the coin has not been retrieved, the LRL demo is over and the contestant will be instructed where to retrieve the coin so that it can be produced in evidence by the contestant himself and then returned to me. The coin will be distinctively marked and the distinctive marking will be described to the LRL immediately prior to the search. The LRL user will not be permitted assistants within the search site, other than one person who stays with the contestant and is allowed to catch the event on camera. Assistants are allowed outside the search area to make sure that neither I nor anyone else buries a gold coin during the search itself, at the location to be revealed during the search or immediately afterwards.
Alternative criterion for "retrieval": since I don't intend for this to be a test of metal detection skill, if it turns out that there are unwanted metal targets within the 12 foot diameter circle which interfere with recovery of the marked coin within the allotted 15 minutes, if the marked coin's position is within the 12 foot circle, that counts as a win.
Another consideration: on some sites, use of a metal detector is prohibited. If the site is of that type, the coin will be buried in such away that it can be retrieved either without a metal detector or with a concealable metal detector, and if the coin's position is within the 12 foot diameter LRL locate, that counts as a win.
A 12 foot circle is 1 part in 400 of an acre, so you have 1 chance in 400 of hitting it by sheer luck.
The site will be in the immediate El Paso area, since I have no intention of going halfway across the country for a no-show. The El Paso airport is close in, and a lot faster than most large airports.
Spot gold right now is about $1500. That ought to be enough to cover a day trip from most places in the USA. I realize that's nothing like Carl's or A.R.'s offer but the deal is a heckuvalot simpler-- 15 minutes to find and retrieve a one-ounce gold bullion coin and keep it, through the use of an LRL. PuffDaddy's idea, and I like it.
I am open to modifications of the proposal as long as they represent reasonable concerns on the part of LRL users who are actually serious about this. (Art and Hung for example are obviously disqualified.) However, modifications which facilitate fraud are not negotiable: the objective is to eliminate the possibility of fraud on anyone's part so the result whatever it is will be undisputable.
--Toto
Rockhound, I'm willing to lose a 1-ounce gold bullion coin to an LRL. Heck, it'd be an historical event!
However, I'm not willing to lose it to fraud. Nor am I willing to go on a wild goose chase at my expense and then have the LRL user be a no-show.
The "LRL" in this context must be of the hand-held swivelling L-rod type and must purport to utilize electronic enhancement. I'm not interested in demos of ordinary dowsing rods or of (for instance) military standoff radar.
The site will be less than one acre (an acre is approximately 44,000 square feet, equivalent to a square 210 feet on a side). Prior to the start the LRL demonstrator will be told where the boundaries are in order to avoid searching outside the area where the coin is buried. The coin will not be buried so close to a poorly defined boundary as to create the possibility of confusion whether it's inside or outside the boundary. "Locating" consists of actually retrieving the coin within 15 minutes of the start. No "scouting out the site first" will be permitted. A metal detector may not be used for searching, but may be used to assist in retrieval once the LRL user has identified and marked a point at the center of a 12 foot diameter circle within which the retrieval attempt will take place. The coin will be buried less than 8 inches deep and will be easily recoverable. Only one locate & retrieval attempt is allowed: once you identify the center of the 12 foot circle within which you intend to make the retrieval, you're committed. If within the allotted 15 minutes the coin has not been retrieved, the LRL demo is over and the contestant will be instructed where to retrieve the coin so that it can be produced in evidence by the contestant himself and then returned to me. The coin will be distinctively marked and the distinctive marking will be described to the LRL immediately prior to the search. The LRL user will not be permitted assistants within the search site, other than one person who stays with the contestant and is allowed to catch the event on camera. Assistants are allowed outside the search area to make sure that neither I nor anyone else buries a gold coin during the search itself, at the location to be revealed during the search or immediately afterwards.
Alternative criterion for "retrieval": since I don't intend for this to be a test of metal detection skill, if it turns out that there are unwanted metal targets within the 12 foot diameter circle which interfere with recovery of the marked coin within the allotted 15 minutes, if the marked coin's position is within the 12 foot circle, that counts as a win.
Another consideration: on some sites, use of a metal detector is prohibited. If the site is of that type, the coin will be buried in such away that it can be retrieved either without a metal detector or with a concealable metal detector, and if the coin's position is within the 12 foot diameter LRL locate, that counts as a win.
A 12 foot circle is 1 part in 400 of an acre, so you have 1 chance in 400 of hitting it by sheer luck.
The site will be in the immediate El Paso area, since I have no intention of going halfway across the country for a no-show. The El Paso airport is close in, and a lot faster than most large airports.
Spot gold right now is about $1500. That ought to be enough to cover a day trip from most places in the USA. I realize that's nothing like Carl's or A.R.'s offer but the deal is a heckuvalot simpler-- 15 minutes to find and retrieve a one-ounce gold bullion coin and keep it, through the use of an LRL. PuffDaddy's idea, and I like it.
I am open to modifications of the proposal as long as they represent reasonable concerns on the part of LRL users who are actually serious about this. (Art and Hung for example are obviously disqualified.) However, modifications which facilitate fraud are not negotiable: the objective is to eliminate the possibility of fraud on anyone's part so the result whatever it is will be undisputable.
--Toto
aarthrj3811
Gold Member
Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
~LSMorgan~
Even money wager. I'll post as much cash or gold as you do, winner take all... That you cannot locate buried gold from long distance away with any LRL machine you build... Or, if you want, we pick a 3 acre agfield clear of trash, bury one gold eagle at a depth of 6", I use a metal detector, you use your Long Range Locating machine and we're both limited to digging one hole, no wider than 12". If you find it and I don't, you win whatever we bet.
If I find it and you don't, I win.
If neither find it (or if we both do), its a wash.
Lets call it "science versus faith".
~LSMorgan~
The site will be less than one acre (an acre is approximately 44,000 square feet, equivalent to a square 210 feet on a side). Prior to the start the LRL demonstrator will be told where the boundaries are in order to avoid searching outside the area where the coin is buried. The coin will not be buried so close to a poorly defined boundary as to create the possibility of confusion whether it's inside or outside the boundary. "Locating" consists of actually retrieving the coin within 15 minutes of the start. No "scouting out the site first" will be permitted. A metal detector may not be used for searching, but may be used to assist in retrieval once the LRL user has identified and marked a point at the center of a 12 foot diameter circle within which the retrieval attempt will take place. The coin will be buried less than 8 inches deep and will be easily recoverable. Only one locate & retrieval attempt is allowed: once you identify the center of the 12 foot circle within which you intend to make the retrieval, you're committed. If within the allotted 15 minutes the coin has not been retrieved, the LRL demo is over and the contestant will be instructed where to retrieve the coin so that it can be produced in evidence by the contestant himself and then returned to me. The LRL user will not be permitted assistants within the search site, other than one person who stays with the contestant and is allowed to catch the event on camera. Assistants are allowed outside the search area to make sure that neither I nor anyone else buries a gold coin during the search itself, at the location to be revealed during the search or immediately afterwards.
~LSMorgan~
Even money wager. I'll post as much cash or gold as you do, winner take all... That you cannot locate buried gold from long distance away with any LRL machine you build... Or, if you want, we pick a 3 acre agfield clear of trash, bury one gold eagle at a depth of 6", I use a metal detector, you use your Long Range Locating machine and we're both limited to digging one hole, no wider than 12". If you find it and I don't, you win whatever we bet.
If I find it and you don't, I win.
If neither find it (or if we both do), its a wash.
Lets call it "science versus faith".
~LSMorgan~
The site will be less than one acre (an acre is approximately 44,000 square feet, equivalent to a square 210 feet on a side). Prior to the start the LRL demonstrator will be told where the boundaries are in order to avoid searching outside the area where the coin is buried. The coin will not be buried so close to a poorly defined boundary as to create the possibility of confusion whether it's inside or outside the boundary. "Locating" consists of actually retrieving the coin within 15 minutes of the start. No "scouting out the site first" will be permitted. A metal detector may not be used for searching, but may be used to assist in retrieval once the LRL user has identified and marked a point at the center of a 12 foot diameter circle within which the retrieval attempt will take place. The coin will be buried less than 8 inches deep and will be easily recoverable. Only one locate & retrieval attempt is allowed: once you identify the center of the 12 foot circle within which you intend to make the retrieval, you're committed. If within the allotted 15 minutes the coin has not been retrieved, the LRL demo is over and the contestant will be instructed where to retrieve the coin so that it can be produced in evidence by the contestant himself and then returned to me. The LRL user will not be permitted assistants within the search site, other than one person who stays with the contestant and is allowed to catch the event on camera. Assistants are allowed outside the search area to make sure that neither I nor anyone else buries a gold coin during the search itself, at the location to be revealed during the search or immediately afterwards.
woof!
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Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
LRL fans, Art is jerkin' y'all around by misattributing quotes again.
--Toto
LRL fans, Art is jerkin' y'all around by misattributing quotes again.
--Toto
Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
This sounds like a fair test to see if someone is experienced enough to find your coin.Experience in using LRL's are just like using a handheld metal detector,which I use also,both require many hours afield to get proficient with them.Not once did you mention seeing how they work or the working components of them. This makes it more tempting to LRl users. Many on here are looking for the principle of how they work,for obvious reasons,yet you have not expressed the desire to do that. You seem only to be only interested in proving the vaidity of them.I hope someone takes up your challenge,and I hope that you will post the results,whichever way it goes.We are plagued by the same medium as handheld detectors face,hot ground,power lines,substations,etc.,all cause interference with LRL,just like with handheld detectors. Some are more sensitive to these conditions than others. I am going to start working on a new generation of LRL shortly,but they will not be for sale. I am not trying to convince you or anyone else of their validity.I will let whoever takes up your challenge to do that. I wish you luck,but if an experienced LRL user takes up your challenge,you will lose that gold coin. Good luck. rockhound
This sounds like a fair test to see if someone is experienced enough to find your coin.Experience in using LRL's are just like using a handheld metal detector,which I use also,both require many hours afield to get proficient with them.Not once did you mention seeing how they work or the working components of them. This makes it more tempting to LRl users. Many on here are looking for the principle of how they work,for obvious reasons,yet you have not expressed the desire to do that. You seem only to be only interested in proving the vaidity of them.I hope someone takes up your challenge,and I hope that you will post the results,whichever way it goes.We are plagued by the same medium as handheld detectors face,hot ground,power lines,substations,etc.,all cause interference with LRL,just like with handheld detectors. Some are more sensitive to these conditions than others. I am going to start working on a new generation of LRL shortly,but they will not be for sale. I am not trying to convince you or anyone else of their validity.I will let whoever takes up your challenge to do that. I wish you luck,but if an experienced LRL user takes up your challenge,you will lose that gold coin. Good luck. rockhound
aarthrj3811
Gold Member
Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
Not jerking anyone around…Just making sure everyone is seeing how the bet has changed…Art
Not jerking anyone around…Just making sure everyone is seeing how the bet has changed…Art
Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)
"Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)"
Yes indeed David "Puff Daddy" has a good handle on it now.
Listen to him and learn the truth about LRL's!
Sure am glad someone has the tenacity to put it in perspective!
Don Roberto
"Re: I'm going to build an LRL (seriously)"
Yes indeed David "Puff Daddy" has a good handle on it now.
Listen to him and learn the truth about LRL's!
Sure am glad someone has the tenacity to put it in perspective!
Don Roberto
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