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I support the 2nd amendment
- Thread starter Crispin
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OP
OP
Crispin
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Glad to see things got settled while I was at work. Please allow me to put the thread back on track. I'm going to shorten it this time...
I fully support the 2nd amendment. I believe the words shall not be infringed need no further explanation.
I am a liberal.
Crispin
I fully support the 2nd amendment. I believe the words shall not be infringed need no further explanation.
I am a liberal.
Crispin
TheRingFinder
Bronze Member
If you can't define liberties for me, in your view; then this conversation is over. Clearly, we are not intellectually able to have a rational conversation.
The Ring Finder
pippinwhitepaws
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A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State...
why do people always leave this part of the sentence out?
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Second+Amendment
"The precise wording of the amendment was changed two times before the U.S. Senate finally cast it in its present form. As with many of the amendments, the exact wording proved critical to its interpretation"
". In its final form, the amendment presented a challenge to interpreters. It was the only amendment with an opening clause that appeared to state its purpose. The amendment even had defective punctuation; the comma before shall seemed grammatically unnecessary.
Legal scholars do not agree about this comma. Some have argued that it was intentional and that it was intended to make militia the subject of the sentence. According to these theorists, the operative words of the amendment are "[a] well regulated Militia … shall not be infringed." Others have argued that the comma was a mistake, and that the operative words of the sentence are "the right of the people to … bear arms … shall not be infringed." Under this reading, the first part of the sentence is the rationale for the absolute, personal right of the people to own firearms. Indeed, the historical backdrop—highlighted by a general disdain for professional armies—would seem to support this theory. "
why do people always leave this part of the sentence out?
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Second+Amendment
"The precise wording of the amendment was changed two times before the U.S. Senate finally cast it in its present form. As with many of the amendments, the exact wording proved critical to its interpretation"
". In its final form, the amendment presented a challenge to interpreters. It was the only amendment with an opening clause that appeared to state its purpose. The amendment even had defective punctuation; the comma before shall seemed grammatically unnecessary.
Legal scholars do not agree about this comma. Some have argued that it was intentional and that it was intended to make militia the subject of the sentence. According to these theorists, the operative words of the amendment are "[a] well regulated Militia … shall not be infringed." Others have argued that the comma was a mistake, and that the operative words of the sentence are "the right of the people to … bear arms … shall not be infringed." Under this reading, the first part of the sentence is the rationale for the absolute, personal right of the people to own firearms. Indeed, the historical backdrop—highlighted by a general disdain for professional armies—would seem to support this theory. "
GMD52
Silver Member
In my mind , we who are posting on this thread are a good example of how people of differing backgrounds, experiences, and beliefs, can talk among themselves and come to a common ground, this is the basis of what I wrote earlier, and believe should be practiced everywhere. As always happens there will be those who question every statement, and that is fine, because at least they are participating and learning about the workings of other's thought processes. We are not all that different, just have different communication methods....remember the fight is not among ourselves, it is against those who want to usurp the rights that we have been granted, and the memories of those who died defending those rights. It is those of us who continue to fight these battles who will eventually prevail.....we have to!.......Gary
OP
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Crispin
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"One ring to bring them all, one ring to find them. One ring to rule them all, and in the darkness BIND them." Sauron the Deceiver, written in the Morgul Tongue and a secret that only fire can reveal.
jerseyben
Gold Member
The biggest problem the world faces is growing extremism compounded by staggering ignorance.
The whole world is battling Muslim extremists who spread their radical message by preying on the ignorant.
The US is rapidly facing political extremists who also prey on the ignorant.
Short of petty crimes, there is no consequence for anything and no one is held accountable for anything.
This growing trend of extremist behavior being accepted and tolerated by our society is truly alarming.
The whole world is battling Muslim extremists who spread their radical message by preying on the ignorant.
The US is rapidly facing political extremists who also prey on the ignorant.
Short of petty crimes, there is no consequence for anything and no one is held accountable for anything.
This growing trend of extremist behavior being accepted and tolerated by our society is truly alarming.
Dave44
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Absolutely true. I wish there was a way we could break through the veil, and show them the light!
jerseyben
Gold Member
Dave, you and I know we are not talking about the same thing. I REFUSE to play any games with you. Allow my statement to stand as it reads, please.
Dave44
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If your statement is not interpreted correctly by me, you are in danger of calling everyone on this site ignorant. I am sure that wasn't your intention, so I helped you out.
You may commence saying thank you at your own pace.
jerseyben
Gold Member
And by your logic you are in danger of calling everyone on this site "extremists".
Dave44
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The first clause is a statement of fact: “prefatory”
Whereas, "A well-regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state ... "[That means: A well-equipped, organized and disciplined militia (all able-bodied men over the age of 16) is A NECESSITY for the security of A FREE STATE] ...
The second clause is the conclusion: “operative”
... therefore, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." [That means ... the RIGHT of the each person to keep (possess, own, hold) and bear (carry, wear and use) arms (weapons capable of defending people, their families, property and state) SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.]
These are generally referred to as the “prefatory”and the “operative” clauses.
The prefatory clause sets the table and lays out the driving purpose, and the operative clause gets the actual work done.
Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk now Free
Last edited:
TheRingFinder
Bronze Member
You are 100% correct JB -
The US is rapidly facing political extremists who also prey on the ignorant. < - That is why we have extrmists like Obama, Reid and Pelosi running/ruining the country.
Short of petty crimes, there is no consequence for anything and no one is held accountable for anything. < - IE: The IRS, Fast & Furious, Benghazi....etc.
This growing trend of extremist behavior being accepted and tolerated by our society is truly alarming. < - Men marrying Men, Groups such as Manbla, Porn & errasing God from every public forum.
Yep - I'd say you are on to something JB!!!!
jerseyben
Gold Member
If you want to spin my words to fit the agenda of a small fringe, be my guest.
pippinwhitepaws
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i rarely need someone to tell me what a series of words strung into a sentence mean...this is not one of those moments.
jerseyben
Gold Member
Thats ok guys, sometimes the truth hurts so we try to comfort ourselves by pretending like the stuff that other guy said didn't apply to me. 
Dave44
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Thats ok guys, sometimes the truth hurts so we try to comfort ourselves by pretending like the stuff that other guy said didn't apply to me.
Don't beat yourself up over it. We understand.
jerseyben
Gold Member
Believe me, I wasnt talking about myself...
Jim in Idaho
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I'm confused about some of the people who claim to support, and believe in, the second amendment. How can somebody claim to support, and believe in, that amendment, and turn around and consistently support, and defend, members of the political party that consistently attempts to limit, thwart, or do away with that amendment? Just wondered how that is reconciled? In the circle I run around in, that behavior would get this response...."don't pee down my back and claim it's raining" .
Jim
Jim
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