I have found the Lost Adams Diggings Sno-Ta-hay Canyon

[Old Bookaroo]

Springfield:

Was that the Col. Fleming mentioned in Dobie's Apache Gold and Yaqui Silver?

Perhaps we should have limited ourselves to "publically available" accounts. This is not to cast any doubt on the version you mention. There just isn't much utility in attempting to a conversation about any story we can't first read.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

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[Springfield]

Springfield:

Was that the Col. Fleming mentioned in Dobie's Apache Gold and Yaqui Silver?

Perhaps we should have limited ourselves to "publically available" accounts. This is not to cast any doubt on the version you mention. There just isn't much utility in attempting to a conversation about any story we can't first read.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

Yes, it's the same Fleming. I would post the Fleming narrative here except that it was given to me in confidence by the Colonel's heirs some years ago with the stipulation that it not be made public. There are some very specific clues in the memoir, such as landmark descriptions and current canyon names. Dobie obviously obtained a copy, or perhaps interviewed Fleming himself prior to the book publication. For all I know, the memoir is known by many, and I have provided same to a couple trusted friends over the years myself, but I will honor the family's wishes here. That said, I will provide Fleming's closing remarks below, summarizing some of his conclusions without being too specific.

The point of all this is that there are a large number of personal narratives that I am aware of concerning the Lost Adams Diggings, some obscure and some very well-known. I assume there are many, many private memoirs similar to the Fleming paper that were, and maybe still are, existing in obscurity somewhere in old family records. After all, this lost placer was sought by thousands for generations - many of whom probably figured they held some sort of privileged information.

Nearly all the tellings of the legend that I've seen are divergent from one another in some ways, many radically so. Just because a version of the story became popularized in, say, a newspaper article or a book, doesn't add any more credibility to it that some little-known version such as Fleming's, or some of the Library of Congress's pioneer interviews from the 1930's. Many of the small towns in the Southwest also conducted pioneer interviews ca 1930's to 1950's with the old-timers who were still alive then - Silver City being a typical example. There are some mighty good lost mines/buried treasure clues to be found there (some dealing with the LAD) for those who are curious enough to ferret out the information.

All these LAD stories presumably began with Adams at some point, and that's the problem: the evidence available proves he was an unreliable witness, whether intentional or otherwise.

THE ADAMS GOLD DIGGINGS
By Col. J.W. Fleming​

..... When I had this talk with Adams in San Diego, it had been a long time since he had found the Diggings, but if I were to start out to find the Diggings, I would get a map, measure out about 120 miles from Camp Apache and right there I would go and prospect for the Diggings. I believe they are in the Mogollons.

I believe that I am the only man living now who ever had a talk with Adams.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Springfield:

It is very important to respect promises of confidentiality - and I respect you for doing so.

When I was a good deal more active selling books than I am now, treasure hunters trusted me with their secrets so I could assist them. I never violated those confidences - and I would never ask anyone else to do so, either. This is not, just for the record, to suggest you thought I did.

Some years ago the California Division of Mines had a nice store on Battery Street in San Francisco. It was stocked with a wonderful research library, mineral collection, three-dimensional models of mines (sheets of glass held horizontal in a wooden frame), and state publications for sale.

One day the clerk mentioned to me that from time to time prospectors would come in and ask for maps. "What part of the state do you need a map of?" he would ask. Often the answer was "I can't tell you that! It's a secret!"

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Springfield]

..... Some years ago the California Division of Mines had a nice store on Battery Street in San Francisco. It was stocked with a wonderful research library, mineral collection, three-dimensional models of mines (sheets of glass held horizontal in a wooden frame), and state publications for sale.

One day the clerk mentioned to me that from time to time prospectors would come in and ask for maps. "What part of the state do you need a map of?" he would ask. Often the answer was "I can't tell you that! It's a secret!"

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

Years ago when I was involved in claim staking and such, we once heard from a client that he had located a 'rich outcropping of gold' and he wanted to know if we could file a claim for him without revealing the claim's location - a 'generic' claim. Since we were generally paid by the number of claims we staked, the more the merrier, we offered to this prospector that we'd file on a much larger group of claims, say 20 or 30, for him. That way, he could surround his 'hot spot' with barren land, making it much more difficult for the 'spies' to find it. More 'security' for him, more work ($) for us. He didn't go for it.

 

[cactusjumper]

Springfield,

[THE ADAMS GOLD DIGGINGS
By Col. J.W. Fleming

..... When I had this talk with Adams in San Diego, it had been a long time since he had found the Diggings, but if I were to start out to find the Diggings, I would get a map, measure out about 120 miles from Camp Apache and right there I would go and prospect for the Diggings. I believe they are in the Mogollons.
I believe that I am the only man living now who ever had a talk with Adams.]
____________________________________________________________

Looking at it strictly from what Col. Fleming statement above, I would be reluctant to put much faith in his conclusion.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Springfield]

Springfield,

[THE ADAMS GOLD DIGGINGS
By Col. J.W. Fleming

..... When I had this talk with Adams in San Diego, it had been a long time since he had found the Diggings, but if I were to start out to find the Diggings, I would get a map, measure out about 120 miles from Camp Apache and right there I would go and prospect for the Diggings. I believe they are in the Mogollons.
I believe that I am the only man living now who ever had a talk with Adams.]
____________________________________________________________

Looking at it strictly from what Col. Fleming statement above, I would be reluctant to put much faith in his conclusion.

Take care,

Joe

That's right - Camp Apache was not in existence when the LAD events supposedly occurred (1864 by many accounts). This is exactly the problem with Adams and his stories - too many discrepancies that never quite seem to fit together. Not only a red flag, but a long parade of them.

Fleming's memoir touches upon other things that Adams allegedly told him - landmarks he thought he could identify, coupled with his apparently previously-held belief that the 'supply fort' was Fort West on the Gila River near it's confluence with Bear Creek, which flows down from Pinos Altos. These reasons and probably others we're not aware of, I believe, possibly led Fleming to conclude that the Mogollons were the LAD's location. Fleming was an accomplished and savvy miner and frontiersman who presumably put quite a bit of thought into the lost diggings puzzle before arriving at his conclusions, and quite possibly before his discussion with Adams (1886). This we don't know. We do know his reputation was solid and his meeting with Adams seems to have been a chance event. Why did Adams mention Camp/Fort Apache? It may have been to embellish his story; it may have been to describe a location that later became well-known; it may have been a mistake. Take your pick - everything Adams supposedly said is suspect IMO. I would not be too quick to dismiss Fleming's bottom-line opinion despite Adams' Camp Apache faux pas.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Springfield:

I continue to believe "Camp Apache" was not, necessarily, a "formal" fort or outpost. There must have been any number of temporary encampments with that name in the Old Southwest.

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[filemaker01]

OK Everyone, I have absolute proof of the location of the Lost Adams and even though I posted images over a year ago, I didn't mention the exact location because I needed more research but my website explains everything now. Once you see the website you will understand why the canyon was in fact an ancient Apache Chief burial grounds and not only that but there are effigy mounds built by native ancient Americans that rival the pyramids that line up with the stars. The White House, Dept of Parks and Recreation, Law Enforcement and National Geographic besides many other state and federal agencies are now involved and are planning to keep the area preserved due to it's record news breaking headlines world wide considering the signifance which I am the first to discover the mounds and publish the facts and images with copyrights etc. Please enjoy this. I guess this cut that legend all to shreads so to speak. .... NEXT!!! Ahhahahahah, I also posted I found it as the first topic in this thread some time ago, anyway here's the link

Lost Adams Explained beyond any doubt:

http://lovefishn.tripod.com/lostadamsdiggings.html

I've even been in contact with the writers and narrators of various shows like Ancient Aliens and my website explains why it's worthy of world wide news.

Anyway, it's been a great fifteen plus years researching and I found that communicating with everyone here absolutely great, you've all be wonderful and I appreciate the way everyone treats others with respect and dignaty as colleagues should. With much appreciation to the website forums host here too as well.

Thank You! : )

Sincerely, Phillip Anderson

 

[filemaker01]

I also just want to mention out of professional courtesy a few things about the canyon:

For one, this is a very sacred site while for now I'm sure people can go there I suggest not doing so because the federal government and other major entities are taking this area and the local and federal laws very seriously. I've also asked that certain people be located as they seem to have gone missing which is my primary reason for no longer keeping this secret. Regardless of any treasure value, lives are worth more than any treasure there is, at least to me. Maybe this is also why I've been so successful in locating other major treasures with all the years of serious nose in book and online research with museums, archives, magazines, even letters, at least twenty or so books on the subject etc. I've know for some time but I just don't want people going there without the proper permits and people do live in the area. So Please don't just go there, the treasure has been found and the gold is well picked clean by fortune hunters over the years who didn't know the significance. The fact this area is so sacred and why makes this a place that belongs to everyone so the laws there are being inforced big time!!

Thanks everyone and my next adventure will be a treasure and artifacts buried in a tunnel a friend located after searching for over twenty years according to a legend. My friend finally found the ancient tunnel built that goes into a mountainside into a large chambers filled with murals and artifacts and possibly a huge treasure hidden away from the first Spanish explorers and the pyramids are the northern most of the type built by the Mayan and earlier civilizations and then the pyramids themselves were buried as well as the ball court to keep the Spanish from finding that the villagers recently uncovered the pyramids about a year ago but I will be the first to film the tunnel and where it leads into the chambers filled with artifacts and possibly a huge treasure.

http://lovefishn.tripod.com/lostadamsdiggings.html

I'll be happy to post here first once we film and we will have help from the Mexican government.

Thanks,

Phillip Anderson

 

[Cubfan64]

Congratulations and I look forward to reading your site, but to be honest with you, if it really has the potential to be as significant of a find as you stated (with all the agencies and departments looking at it), I think it probably would have been best to not make it public - the only thing gained by announcing it the way you did is public recognition and in the long run that's extremely insignificant.

Just my $0.02

 

[Oroblanco]

Filemaker01 wrote

I also posted I found it as the first topic in this thread some time ago

Not trying to get picky about this but I posted the first thread in this topic when it was formed in December of 2009; there were older threads which were scattered all over the forum and have been moved here one by one over time, in fact there may still be a few that didn't get moved. But the very first topic in the thread was mine, a bit over two years ago.

It is against the rules to cross-post the same thing in several threads, not trying to tell you what to do or not do, and I am guilty of it in the past which was how I learned of the rule. As to what you claim to have found, unless someone actually checks it in person we really don't know much of anything, so I have to agree with our mutual friend Cubfan that it probably would have been better to keep it quiet until you could confirm or disprove what is actually there. I don't think any Apaches ever built any effigy mounds for their dead but could be mistaken, and it is notable that the Apaches are relatively speaking, latecomers to the area; in the early 1600's when the first Spanish explorations were getting done there were no Apaches anywhere in the region. If those are indeed some kind of man-made burial mounds, the odds are that they are not Apache but one of the older cultures like Hohokam or Anasazi.

I remain respectfully unconvinced of what you have claimed Phillip, no offence intended and I wish you good luck in your endeavors; one thing to consider too is that it is virtually impossible for any placer gold mine to get ALL of the gold out, no mining method known has perfect recovery nor would any miners ever bother to dig up every tiny bit of dirt to get the last speck. You can visit any old placer gold mine which is "played out" that is, the miners have gotten all the gold out of and find gold with a gold pan because of the fact they could not get it all nor would they ever bother. So if your site really is the Lost Adams, there certainly will be gold remaining there, perhaps not enough to pay wages for mining it, but there should be gold to be found that would prove it was a gold deposit.

Oroblanco

 

[Cubfan64]

I spent some time this morning looking over your website regarding your find. I see resemblences between maps and the Google Earth photos, but it isn't completely convincing to me - what I'd really like to see are "feet on the ground" photographs as well as documented evidence to back up some of your claims (for example the bodies being found, etc...).

It would be great if you were able to put all the pieces together with lots of documentation as supporting evidence. I use Google Earth myself at times, but only for "recon" purposes and just general idea gathering - I would personally want to spend a great deal of time physically at the actual location in order to put together the really critical evidence.

I hope you'll be able to provide all of that on your website eventually.

 

[filemaker01]

It's all already been verified, all the various federal, local and state officials are also looking at it as well as being submitted to the White House and yes, there are those who have been there, overhead many times including various members of NASA using satelite tech etc, and will be heading there shortly to investigate more as well as various TV shows I've already been conversing with for some time. That's basically what I've been doing since I started this entire forums thread announcing I found the LAD. The mounds are already established only everyone here are now one of the first to know as a courtisey from me since you were all so kind in the thread in return. Thank you, The government was notified by various professionals. So, there's going to be a few choppers and even satelites are looking at it now from NASA against the charts and photos of the same constellations and they already marked the mounds as accurate to over 95% in details, so they are already verified by real professionals like myself, it's just a matter of time before many others start looking at the mounds. Anyway, I said I would keep everyone posted only I couldn't post about the significance until now, Sorry, just some things couldn't be shared but at least I kept my self promise to let everyone know of new developments like this. Believe me it's a hard feeling not being able to mention something as big as this for all that time. The mounds will most likely be a national treasure or world heritage site, see there what a little college can do? Ahhahaha, anyway.... Thanks all. : )

http://lovefishn.tripod.com/lostadamsdiggings.html

The place is litterally like a Disneyworld for archeoastronomers, so I'm only hoping to be taken seriously in my next adventure, wait till you here about that one which will also be in the news as well soon. My site is going viral now that I finally posted it for the public to view. : ) Thanks, Sincerely your all the greatest to talk to.

 

[bigscoop]

The White House? World Heritage? But "good luck" non the less.

 

[filemaker01]

Coming real soon, snotahaycanyon.com C TR

 

[filemaker01]

Thanks Bigscoop : ) In case you haven't checked this out.

http://lovefishn.tripod.com/lostadamsdiggings.html

It's been real cool. : )

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

tag

 

[filemaker01]

Well, the information has been coming in and so many good things are happening now to preserve the canyon. A new website was made for the canyon: http://www.snotahaycanyon.com/
We'll be adding a new forum and database soon and hope everyone will enjoy and please respect those who live in the area, and remember all federal, state and local laws when visiting any area of New Mexico or BLM land. Various permits and licenses may be required while even picking up a potential artifact may be illegal.

http://www.snotahaycanyon.com/

Thanks

Phil

 

[filemaker01]

I just wanted to thank Cubfan64 and others who were very positive regarding this enormous discovery. Thank You! There are so many other wonderful places and treasures out there. Hopefully this will set an example of what hard work and many years of research can do. Although Ron Jensen found the gold hidden by the massacred Adams party, unfortunately he didn't recognize the significance of the images carved into the natural landscape however he did help in my finding the area by posting the map of the canyon. With many thanks to everyone! You're all the greatest and your conversing on this subject has been great! I'm hoping maybe to set a link later depending...

Sincerely,

Phil

 

[AZ_Gold]

It's all already been verified, all the various federal, local and state officials are also looking at it as well as being submitted to the White House and yes, there are those who have been there, overhead many times including various members of NASA using satelite tech

With all due respect, I find that very hard to believe. Particularly the bit about "members of NASA". I'll tell you why.

On the snotahay.com website there is a screenshot from Google Earth Sky showing the constellation Cygnus, and pointing out the Egg Nebula. The caption reads, in part, "Cygnus Egg Nebula is also a very common image among the Ancient cultures worldwide...".

This is presented as a statement of fact, but in reality it is quite impossible. The Egg Nebula wasn't discovered until 1996 and it's completely invisible to the naked eye! It's so faint that you need a powerful telescope to see it. Therefore, no ancient culture saw it, no ancient culture used it as an image.

The swan image is a problem too. The stylized, detailed image of a swan that is being used to "match" geological features in New Mexico is from Greek mythology and astronomy. There simply is no connection betweeen that image and any early culture in North America.

The constellation Cygnus, the asterism of which is known as the Northern Cross, looks vaguely like the stick figure of a bird. Native Americans may or may not have seen it as a bird, but they definately were not familiar with the swan image being used here.

That having been said, I'm certain that nobody from NASA is interested in this site. (Doesn't that "S" stand for Space? Are they doing archaeology these days?) There are already plenty of high resolution images of the area anyway. Why would they waste their time on that, when all that is needed is an archaeologist visiting the site?

I'm not trying to be insulting and I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but I just can't believe any of these claims. Despite the many statements that's it's been "verified", I don't see any evidence of that here. Or anywhere else.

Good luck all the same.