I am a noob and I have questions. Lots of em.

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I see over at Sprint http://coverage.sprint.com/IMPACT.jsp? the supes is basically the no coverage zone. So I suppose sat phone of some type and filing a plan with some one is the way to go. Another damned thing to haul around. The camaraderie of the sport has made you guys are a real friendly, generous and accommodating bunch

What is the fall date that things would be expected to cool down enough? As if the weather is predictable anymore

Thanks again

 

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[roadrunner]

October. Maybe as early as September for us locals.
If it is below 90 we feel good.

 

[Somero]

I see over at Sprint http://coverage.sprint.com/IMPACT.jsp? the supes is basically the no coverage zone. So I suppose sat phone of some type and filing a plan with some one is the way to go. Another damned thing to haul around. The camaraderie of the sport has made you guys are a real friendly, generous and accommodating bunch

What is the fall date that things would be expected to cool down enough? As if the weather is predictable anymore

Thanks again

Usually late October is not too bad, generally in the low 80's, about the time of the Rendezvous. No guarantees that we won't hit a warm spell that time of year.

October. Maybe as early as September for us locals.
If it is below 90 we feel good.

Between 90 and 100 makes for a good short day hike if your acclimated and have a pack full of water.

 

[roadrunner]

We don't need no pack full of water.
We ex framers, and locals.
A couple of 20oz plastic bottles and where fine.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

We don't need no pack full of water.
We ex framers, and locals.
A couple of 20oz plastic bottles and where fine.

Dude, you are going to need more water jugs than that to pack out all that gold

 

[roadrunner]

Could be, but I know of the tanks around here and they are listed on the SAR maps,topo maps.
First we got to find it, then I will worry about water.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Tanks are the springs?

 

[Oroblanco]

Tanks are natural hollows in the rocks of the stream beds, where pooled water from rains will keep for some time, slowly drying up. I would NOT recommend depending on the water in the tanks, I have seen them dry more than once, and the one time I got into trouble (serious) in the Superstitions was by depending on a spring, which turned out to be DRY. It will not hurt you to carry extra water, but can hurt you if you don't.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

So spring (v fall) is better for filtering and disinfecting natural water. Do people have stashes of water and equipment out there? And would that sort of thing be respected? For example, if I put up a very small camp and wander a few miles each day would my things be safe if stumbled upon by others? Do I need to have a desert camo tent and take it down every morning to use it to tarp the stuff?

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

snip ...
Can you remember where you read this? Only a few trips to the mine are actually supported by witnesses, and the one instance of selling a "load" of ore was a single burro load - plus keep in mind that Waltz owned only ONE mule or burro for the last part of his life. He did not seem to be interested in mining to "get rich quick" rather to get enough money to keep himself comfortable. Some people find that to be un-believable in itself, thinking Waltz would have dug ALL the gold he could get as fast as possible to get rich quick or the whole thing is a lie.

...snip

I just came across it in a notepad doc where I have been cutting and pasting things, but no reference, and I can't find it on google so far, perhaps the site it is on has the search crawlers blocked. Could have been this site for all I know.

Here it is, item 7 in the list of clues "7. The Dutchman and Wiser were seen coming out of the

mountains by way of the Whitlow Stage Road with six heavily

laden burros accompanied by two Mexicans on at least five

occasions."

Here is the entire list if it helps find the reference:

1. The Dutchman entered the Superstitions by way of Queen

Creek or Whitlow Stage Road.

2. He always bought his supplies in Florence.

3. He reported Wiser's death first in Florence.

4. His partner had been a carpenter in Florence.

5. Walz was followed by many to the vicinity of Randolph and

Fraser Canyons, where he eluded them.

6. He often stayed in one of the "lugares" or a one room house

located at the junction of Red tanks, Randolph and Fraser

Canyons.

7. The Dutchman and Wiser were seen coming out of the

mountains by way of the Whitlow Stage Road with six heavily

laden burros accompanied by two Mexicans on at least five

occasions.
8. The old Spanish Trail, as well as a branch of the old military

trail, comes over the Red Tanks Divide, around Randolph

Canyon and then through Whitlow.

9. Most of the old Dutchman hunters looked in the eastern part of

the mountains. These people had more current data to go by.

10. The Dutchman always had a red stain on the knees of his

trousers that would not come out when Julia Thomas washed

them.

Was this an iffy source?

 

[sgtfda]

Sounds good

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

So if we do the math on 30 burro loads at - at least 100# each ... he cleaned it out !!

 

[Oroblanco]

Conceptualizednetherlandr wrote

So spring (v fall) is better for filtering and disinfecting natural water. Do people have stashes of water and equipment out there? And would that sort of thing be respected? For example, if I put up a very small camp and wander a few miles each day would my things be safe if stumbled upon by others? Do I need to have a desert camo tent and take it down every morning to use it to tarp the stuff?

I am a bit surprised no one attempted to answer your questions here; the choice of spring versus fall is a matter of taste really, the weather can be pretty pleasant either way; water tanks are more "dicey" in fall than in spring, however you may have a greater chance of rain in spring that can make camping/hiking less pleasant.

Yes people do have stashes of food/water etc out there and the unwritten rule is to never touch them; however in an emergency all bets are off. As to a hidden camp, that is a matter of personal preference too. Having your camp out in plain sight may run the risk of thieves, but is also a "landmark" you may be able to see from a distance, should you get "turned around". I would NOT leave anything very valuable laying around in plain sight however, not that it is teeming with thieves but why take the chance?

Conceptualizednetherlandr also wrote

I just came across it in a notepad doc where I have been cutting and pasting things, but no reference, and I can't find it on google so far, perhaps the site it is on has the search crawlers blocked. Could have been this site for all I know.

Here it is, item 7 in the list of clues "7. The Dutchman and Wiser were seen coming out of the

mountains by way of the Whitlow Stage Road with six heavily

laden burros accompanied by two Mexicans on at least five

occasions."

Here is the entire list if it helps find the reference: <snip>
Was this an iffy source?

Not necessarily "iffy" - that is a COLLECTION of the various clues from about eighty different sources, some of which are probably fairly trustworthy, some are probably very un-trustworthy, some could be deliberate falsehoods, and some may not even apply to the Lost Dutchman mine at all. It would require tracing back where these clues originally came from, to try to determine whether they are true, false or completely irrelevant.

Conceptualizednetherlandr also wrote

So if we do the math on 30 burro loads at - at least 100# each ... he cleaned it out !!

If Waltz and his partner had really hauled that much ore out, one would expect that he would have had MUCH more money than he did; remember he helped out Julia and Reiney by selling off his private 'hoard' from home, which was only a few thousand dollars worth, and this nearly wiped out his entire hoard. Also even had they hauled out 30 burro loads, we have NO idea how large the vein actually is. Waltz was accused of having only found a rich pocket, which is not that uncommon, a small pocket might contain a small fortune in gold, and be completely cleaned out in a short time - however Waltz was indignant at this suggestion that he had only a small pocket, and this is where his statement originates about there being enough gold remaining in his mine, (showing) to make millionaires of twenty men - this when the gold prices were at $20.67 per ounce. It is making speculation about what he was really saying, but in effect he says that a million ounces of gold was in the mine visible, when he sealed it up. As to how many burro loads this may amount to, only by actually doing it will it be possible to get that figure. And we might also note that since NO ONE has ever pulled that amount of gold out of the Superstition mountains (and I am including the surrounding areas which were also known as the Superstitions in the time of Jacob Waltz, NOT just the area today known as the Wilderness Area) not even close to it, I have to conclude that the mine has not yet been re-discovered and mined out.

Which is not to say that it was never seen again - I think one fellow did find it, Walt Gassler, but he passed away before being able to profit by it or tell anyone else the location. Before anyone jumps in here to start another argument about that, I did say it is MY BELIEF, you are all free to make your OWN conclusions.

Good luck and good hunting ConceptualizedNetherlander and everyone reading this, if you are able to time your trip to coincide with the annual Dutch-hunters rendezvous, perhaps we can meet in person and swap stories around a campfire. I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I have developed some more questions that I hope you experts and locals can help me with to save me a ton of research.

1) That apparent mine about 7 miles NW of Kearny, what is that all about?

2) The forest south boundary around there, from say south of miners needle to south of Pinal peak, wanders. Outside of that, is that all private or some other form of public access land?

3) Outside of Hayden and Winkelman there are a couple of built mounds, is that a landfill or mine tailings?

thanks again !!

 

[roadrunner]

#1-----copper strip mine. Named Ray Mine.
#2--private and public, or club owned. Or claims.Have to search
#3-------mine tailing's. Strip mining.

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Thank you. It seems that geologically that area south of the boundary is more likely to be mineralized.

 

[sgtfda]

Thank you. It seems that geologically that area south of the boundary is more likely to be mineralized.

Smart man

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

@sgt

Thanks RR. What do we know about this place. Has an old shack, water 1/4 mile away, GE calls that the E ajax mine trail, (So is this the ajax mine location? or where might that be?) hooked up to the telegraph, near enchanted. see the coordinates in the photo. Has a nice road to no where up the hill that just ends? Is this a known mine?

 

[deducer]

Thanks RR. What do we know about this place. Has an old shack, water 1/4 mile away, GE calls that the E ajax mine trail, (So is this the ajax mine location? or where might that be?) hooked up to the telegraph, near enchanted. see the coordinates in the photo. Has a nice road to no where up the hill that just ends? Is this a known mine?

1) If I were you, I would not be planning my hike off something I saw on GE. What you see on GE is likely at least two years old.

2) Why are you putting the cart way ahead of the horse? My suggestion is that for your first visit to the Supes, go on a few easy hikes, stay on the trails, and get a feel for what it's like out there.

 

[roadrunner]

@sgt

Thanks RR. What do we know about this place. Has an old shack, water 1/4 mile away, GE calls that the E ajax mine trail, (So is this the ajax mine location? or where might that be?) hooked up to the telegraph, near enchanted. see the coordinates in the photo. Has a nice road to no where up the hill that just ends? Is this a known mine?

Here is the records from Mindat.

Ajax Mine

This is also off of Reymart road.
Google the Reymart Mine.
Then look at the mindat.com website.