How to spot Old Spanish Mines

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd afternoon Gully, Springfield, Bacanora, coffee, or both? You posted-->The Kings Percentage had nothing to do with the amount of mercury bought
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The amount of processing chemicals /agents very definitely had a bearing on the king Take. First it was a royal concession on all forms of salt. Only the King was allowed to own salt works without special Royal permission. A certain mount of salt basically would only produce so much Silver or Gold Chloride--Patio process - so it was a crude form of taxation. Later the Ag collection system was developed, and the king again took over all Mercury producers as a taxation control process.

I.E. If you can control the basic, yet critical extraction chemicals, you can use that as a crude form of production taxation.

Don Jose de La Mancha Land Rover

 

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[gollum]

What I was saying was that the amount of mercury a miner bought did not affect the percentage of processed metal paid to the King. THAT was only based on the agreement (3%, 5%, etc).

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Agreed caretaker of my lil Land Rover.

Jose de La Mancha

 

[Hal Croves]

T Tramp, G Tramp and chlsbrns. We know how to find disturbed ground when we're in the hills. It's not rocket science. I've literally found hundreds of old workings by noticing the obvious. It's the same as finding arrowheads - something looks different. So, if you want to hide your mine, you scatter the dump and conceal/camouflage everything else. I can post you a whole slug of pictures, but that's not the point.

The question is: who were the Spanish hiding their mines from?

Springfield,
Just one idea but it is worth thinking about. Mexico's Independence from Spain did not happen until 21', but it began less than two years after Pikes return from Spanish controlled Mexico (07). Pikes mission was one of "exploration" however if you dig, it was actually a military recon mission. Pike split his team, sending one group home and establishing a fort with the remaining men in Spanish territory. Their eventual arrest, and journey under escort to the capital provided quite a bit of data which pike later supplied to US forces. He had made a map of the region and concealed it in the barrel of his rifle.
So, as early as 1807, the soon to be Mexicans knew invasion would come one day.
Then in 47 Pointsetta is sent to Mexico to negotiate peace and implement manifest destiny.
The early Spanish hid minds simply by decree and to discourage discovery by anyone not Spanish. There were other nations exploring the northern frontier.
The newly freed Spanish now Mexican knew what was coming by the network of Masonic lodges that were essentially running Mexico. Pointsetta and others managed the transition,
He, Pike, and many others were connected throught the Masonic brotherhood.

The loud Americans were coming and everyone who was anyone knew it.

 

[Springfield]

Springfield,
Just one idea but it is worth thinking about. Mexico's Independence from Spain did not happen until 21', but it began less than two years after Pikes return from Spanish controlled Mexico (07). Pikes mission was one of "exploration" however if you dig, it was actually a military recon mission. Pike split his team, sending one group home and establishing a fort with the remaining men in Spanish territory. Their eventual arrest, and journey under escort to the capital provided quite a bit of data which pike later supplied to US forces. He had made a map of the region and concealed it in the barrel of his rifle.
So, as early as 1807, the soon to be Mexicans knew invasion would come one day.
Then in 47 Pointsetta is sent to Mexico to negotiate peace and implement manifest destiny.
The early Spanish hid minds simply by decree and to discourage discovery by anyone not Spanish. There were other nations exploring the northern frontier.
The newly freed Spanish now Mexican knew what was coming by the network of Masonic lodges that were essentially running Mexico. Pointsetta and others managed the transition,
He, Pike, and many others were connected throught the Masonic brotherhood.

The loud Americans were coming and everyone who was anyone knew it.

The Spanish and later the Mexicans were always wary of foreigners in CO and NM and tried to enforce their will with varying results. As you say, Pike got busted early on as a spy with no good reason for being in Spanish territory. The fur trappers were often in trouble and the same goes for the Santa Fe Trail merchants who established a good business all the way to Chihuahua City. They benefited the state, so were allowed to pay tribute and remain. The mines in NM were no secret - Santa Rita del Cobre was leased to Americans in the 1820's.

If you say the mines in AZ were hidden by decree, I guess you have a record of that.

 

[Hal Croves]

The Spanish and later the Mexicans were always wary of foreigners in CO and NM and tried to enforce their will with varying results. As you say, Pike got busted early on as a spy with no good reason for being in Spanish territory. The fur trappers were often in trouble and the same goes for the Santa Fe Trail merchants who established a good business all the way to Chihuahua City. They benefited the state, so were allowed to pay tribute and remain. The mines in NM were no secret - Santa Rita del Cobre was leased to Americans in the 1820's.

If you say the mines in AZ were hidden by decree, I guess you have a record of that.

I only said "The early Spanish hid minds simply by decree" which was a generalization and since AZ did not exist, I guess it would come down to your definition of what AZ was in the time of Spanish rule.
Side bar... Pike was returned but several men languished in prison for years. Any thoughts on that... I have not been able to resolve it.

 

[Springfield]

I only said "The early Spanish hid minds simply by decree" which was a generalization and since AZ did not exist, I guess it would come down to your definition of what AZ was in the time of Spanish rule.
Side bar... Pike was returned but several men languished in prison for years. Any thoughts on that... I have not been able to resolve it.

Sorry, I meant to say 'today's Arizona'. Of course this region allegedly contains the alleged Jesuit hidden mines near the missions. Spain wouldn't have ordered these hidden, presumably. Of course, these mines have not been verified.

I think the Spanish - and later the Mexicans - kept those guys detained to try to set an example for foreigners in New Mexico. There were other similar cases, mostly American and French trappers operating out of Taos who violated the rules in an area that was hard to control. Robert McKnight was another American who was detained for several years in Chihuahua for 'spying'. The conditions of these guy's 'imprisonment' was more like a comfortable house arrest. When released, McKnight and the Mexican government entered into an agreement whereby he ran the copper mines at Santa Rita to benefit Mexico. I think the Spanish/Mexicans were paranoid after the Louisiana Purchase - and rightfully so.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I believe that Oro de Tayopa once mentioned that they were mining in a very difficult and hot country, so they only mined periodiclyl during the cooler months. Now how would you protect your mine if you had to abandon / leave it for a few months yearly in an basically uninhabited country? I doubt that they followed a royal Decree of any type. just wanted to keep higraders, such as Springfield, at bay.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

the Louisiana Purchase was not the factor in Mexican paranoia...think texas.

out right rebellion and seccesion were a real factor in Spanish/Mexican occupation of el norte...combined with the ever present yaqui, seri, apache, navajo issue.

 

[Springfield]

 

[usernotfound]

STOP IT!

Spanish Mines do not show tailings piles! Since the Spanish couldn't work these mines year round, they had to make them easy to hide until the next mining season. The Spanish went to great lengths to either scatter their tailings over many miles (and far away from their mines), or dump them in some deep hidden crevasse where they would not be seen. They had small hidden openings and no telltale tailings piles.

If Jesus came to you and told you about it (seems kind of odd for Iesu since wasn't he the one that chased off the money lenders, and didn't he say that it would be easier for a wealthy man to fit through the eye of a needle than to get into his father's kingdom?), I will take your word for that. I mean, look at Joan of Arc!

If you find a tailings pile, you have found something that has been worked sometime after about 1848, and likely by Americans.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I have not read this entire thread, but I did read your post. I wanted to share a picture, as a reply. It is the face of Jesus, who is weeping and has a crown of thorns and is bleeding. Interesting enough, the tailings pile are the "red blood" on Jesus head. I cropped the picture on purpose. At the moment it is my Avatar. Don't stone me, just thought this picture fit in the conversation.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd morning Userr, join us for somw of Oro's coffee? Interestng post, more.

don Jose d eLa Mancha

 

[eagle_scout]

here's some mine tailings on the south east side of this same hill. there are several shafts here too.

 

[Springfield]

View attachment 961133here's some mine tailings on the south east side of this same hill. there are several shafts here too.

Looks a lot like a skree slope. Got any photos of the alleged mine workings that the talus-looking rock came from?

 

[gollum]

View attachment 961133

here's some mine tailings on the south east side of this same hill. there are several shafts here too.

I am with Springy here. You are going to have to show me what your shafts look like. To me, those are nothing but scree slopes down the side of a hill.

1st: YOU WILL NOT EVER BE ABLE TO FIND A SPANISH MINE BY LOOKING AT GOOGLE EARTH! People are driving me crazy with this stuff. WHO IN GOD'S NAME IN THE 16TH AND 17TH CENTURIES WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE A SYMBOL FROM A GREAT ALTITUDE? NOBODY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No planes. No hot air balloons (Sorry Hal), no satellite imaging. COULDN'T HAPPEN!

2nd:THIS is what a tailings pile looks like:



3rd: THESE are what the openings to Spanish Mines look like:





4th: USERNOTFOUND: Sorry, I can't see your face of Christ. Again, why would the Spanish make a symbol only visible from the sky when there no planes or satellites? THIS is what a face of Christ (or maybe Coronado) cut into a 200ft cliff looks like:



Best - Mike