histroy of the cave /tunnel

[Oroblanco]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Cactusjumper wrote:

I expect every "fact" I place on a public forum to be challenged. If anyone expects less, better start writing this stuff in your diary.

I have no problem with anything I post being "challenged" - as I stated earlier, don't take my word for it, check on it for yourself. Unless the pertinent records have been removed, they still exist and can be seen with your own eyes. If you should fail to find them, feel free to call me a liar or worse. The fact that some other researcher failed to find them is not enough, in my opinion, to be absolutely certain such records do not exist. I am not claiming to be better at researching things than any other writer, but do expect that if one wishes to challenge a fact, at least do your own research. Of course if you prefer to trust in Dr Glover or any other writer/researcher, that is your own choice.

Mrs Oroblanco wrote:

When did Mr. Oro get a bride?

HEY now I am getting into trouble - I have not finished the first marriage, certainly not ready for another one!

Oroblanco

 

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[Old Dog]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Thanks a lot Eric,
Just because we have an interest in the duchie we are nuts?
LOL , in many ways I agree.

The longer this thing remains unfound
the more nuts we are going to have to be to find it,
The way the clues change from day to day......

Nuts
Totally nuts
All of us.
OD

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Oro,

"Of course if you prefer to trust in Dr Glover or any other writer/researcher, that is your own choice."

To be honest, I do trust in the research of Dr. Glover. Like the others who looked into this story, he names names and places. In Thomas' case, he did not put it in either edition of his book. It was in a private conversation.

I like to think I am too much of a gentleman to ever call you a "liar".... unless, or course, you call me a sumofabitch first.

In this case, our friend Terry is repeating a false story. That's why he included the part about "Sacramento". I must assume that you have done a better job of looking, than the others......or that you are mistaken. Both are possible.

Seems like a good place for us to end this part of our discussion. I look forward to others.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

CJ - consider it ended. I hope you won't mind (if I should turn up some confirmation), to post it here? Thanks and I hope you have a great day.

your friend,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Oro,

Trust me, I would love to see the confirmation. It would be......historic. I love history and am passionate about seeing the truth brought forward. Let the chips fall where they may. I will be happy to sweep them out of the way and gleefully slap you on the back.... as we celebrate.

You folks are welcome in our home......anytime.

Take care,

Joe

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Oro,

"Of course if you prefer to trust in Dr Glover or any other writer/researcher, that is your own choice."

To be honest, I do trust in the research of Dr. Glover. Like the others who looked into this story, he names names and places. In Thomas' case, he did not put it in either edition of his book. It was in a private conversation.

I like to think I am too much of a gentleman to ever call you a "liar".... unless, or course, you call me a sumofabitch first.

In this case, our friend Terry is repeating a false story. That's why he included the part about "Sacramento". I must assume that you have done a better job of looking, than the others......or that you are mistaken. Both are possible.

Seems like a good place for us to end this part of our discussion. I look forward to others.

Take care,

Joe

the shapeshifter .. what a pure taste of the human nature , to reflect what and who are around them .at a given piont in time ..

i can tell you to be the best S.O.B. you can be ,....if that is what you must be at the time .. but always remember times change ...so do people ....some never change , that is up to them ... we can only judge them for our selfs by our own standerds , but we must remember those are our standerds not everyone's....

stay safe stay free

 

[gollum]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

To all,

My Investigation into Bill Riley's honesty is complete and I find no evidence of any fraud committed by Mr Riley.
No screen name links to any sneaky underhanded web sites.

People that return mailed me about Bill Riley included an Arizona Judge and personal friend that said he could vouch for his integrity.

The only thing I found on the web forums was a barrage of personal attacks thrown at a Mr Riley from people claiming it was him, but, I found no evidence or link to prove this. The person they slandered claims that they are not Mr Riley and I'm inclined to believe this based on the lack of evidence I found.

There seems to be a lot of people out there that are angry with their own lack of progress in the Treasure Hunting field and are very negative towards anyone with any decent research or evidence they display no matter how trivial. I find this very disheartening and can see why most Treasure Hunters don't get along with normal people and each other. These personal attacks against Mr Riley's theories and research evidence has got to be a huge set back for anyone looking to make new discoveries in Treasure Hunting..IMHO.
Bill Riley's web site looks like it had links that are not working now with some nice genuine historical documents.

Hear that real Historical Documents of a lost city!

Has anyone else got that kind of real historical proof of a lost city to show on here?

Real evidence!

I looked into his Bigfoot claims and research.

All I can say is if I saw what he did long ago I would have investigated the thing myself!

That web site isn't working very well. You can still read a lot of it though.

It looks to me like Mr Riley was working with top world experts in the undocumented species field and his research in that arena is second to none. With those kinds of skills I would imagine he has historical Bigfoot and Treasure research information we would all die for!

I agree with CJ, Bill Riley is the leading expert in research of any subject he puts his mind to. I would assume his research into Treasures of the Southwest is just as thorough.

And you say Mr Riley's been banned from this forum, but, on the other hand someone who is an admitted fraud and criminal is welcomed on this forum with open arms?

Go figure!

Would someone on here please PM me what Mr Riley did that was so terrible compared to what the BlindBowoman has done on this forum thread that would have gotten him banned and not Mrs BlindBowoman?

He isn't a fraud or a admitted Drug Grower, Pusher, Seller, Distributor or habitual story telling Liar?

What screen name did he go by?

I think I would like to talk to this Bill Riley about his ongoing research!


Best,

Bob

Looks to me like he is going under the screen name "Bob Collins". So, I guess if you want to talk to him, just look in a mirror.

What do you people think? I started thinking that as soon as he said he was going to "investigate" Bill Riley.

Hey Billy. We've been wondering when you would pop up again.

Best-Mike

(I quoted his whole post so if he deleted his, it would still be here)

 

[rochha]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Mike,

I thought the same thing, seems things just dont ever change with him do they?

Rochha

 

[BILL96]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

These LDM posts move so quickly sometimes its difficult for an old guy to keep up but let me back up for just a moment to the topic of waltzs alleged $250,000 in gold shipments. My question is what did he do with all that money, he may have shipped 8 or 10 thousand to his close relitives but that still leaves a lot of loose change. He appeared to live a very sparse life and never showed any signs of wealth. That box of ore under his bed appeared to be his retirement after he could no longer make trips to the mine. What did he do with all that money? did he stash it in the yard around his home before the big flood.

Bill

 

[BILL96]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

From what I understand, that box of ore under his bed was supposed to be his sole source of income after he quit making trips to the mountains. After helping julia and sending a little money home he should have had a lot left, in the 1880's $200,000 was a lot of money. At the end of his life he appeared just plain dirt poor, if he had actually made that much cash their should have been something left, maybe still burried in his old back yard?
Bill

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Randy,

I believe you are wrong, concerning Waltz and Julia's worth at the time of their death's. A lot of research has gone into both subjects, and the results are not that hard to find.

Waltz homesteaded his land. While it may have been worth a bit of money, he did not spend much on anything he owned.

Hope you make it this weekend.

Joe

 

[Springfield]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

... the topic of waltzs alleged $250,000 in gold shipments. My question is what did he do with all that money...
Bill

Good point. $250K then is worth over $8 million in today's funny munny. What'd he do with all that dough?

 

[BILL96]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

Just suppose waltz did sell 100lb of ore to wells fargo or some other ore buyer they probably would have paid him with a bank draft that he would then have to cash. he now has a wad of cash that he must do something with because apparently he didn't spend it at the mall. If he really sold all that ore and cashed all those bank drafts there is still a lot of missing money, or he simply did not sell that much ore.
Bill

 

[gollum]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

... the topic of waltzs alleged $250,000 in gold shipments. My question is what did he do with all that money...
Bill

Good point. $250K then is worth over $8 million in today's funny munny. What'd he do with all that dough?

According to the story, most of it he sent back home top Germany to his wife and family (after all, that WAS his reason for coming out here).

Mike

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

i beleive this goes with the story he told about sending money to his sister when she sent the nephew to him . IMHO his health was failing and he knew it . the trip to the mine is rough for someone in good over health .IMHO thats why he ask for the nephew in the frist place , also after the death of the nephew he only returned to cover over the mine , he was not able to make the climb beyond that piont imho ....i hate to say this ..but there is one place he could have put his money .. at the hiden camp or the tunnel . he would not have to make the climb again . think about what i beleive we know frist hand .... one he was running out of health to make to many more trips in to the mt's ... he most likely had around 150-200 lbs of ore from him & the nephews days working the mine .after the nephew died he had a large cache at the hiden came , most likely it had been safe to that piont there he would have left it there for save keeping ...if he could trust his ore there why not his money as well


we do have a acount of him going back into the mt's and going to the pit to cover it ,maybe he took his money back to the hiden camp at that piont in time . and we know he never returned to the mt's after this event ... most likely IMHO the money is at the hiden camp ....

i beleive he says this in his acount to dick holmes if my thoeries are correct, note he say untill you frist find my rock house . but latter he says frist find the rock with the face on it .then the rock house , note he talks about the rock house 3 times before he talks about the rock face ...


even after telling dick holmes 3 times about the rock house and the hiden camp frist , he then at the end tells him find the rock face frist .

IMHO baiting him to go find it .knowing he never will ...it is one of the reasons i figerd out the dutchman was tricking dick holmes , note he tells dick dirrectly about the hind camp,hideout and camp ... 3 times just like the rock house ...and note he dose not say anything about the hiden camp , hideout or camp in the last statement to dick holmes ...

IMHO he wanted dick holmes to go after the pit and he knew he would not find it with the dirrection he had just gave to him ...

 

[Springfield]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

... the topic of waltzs alleged $250,000 in gold shipments. My question is what did he do with all that money...
Bill

Good point. $250K then is worth over $8 million in today's funny munny. What'd he do with all that dough?

According to the story, most of it he sent back home top Germany to his wife and family (after all, that WAS his reason for coming out here).

Mike

Yeah, I know that's one of the book answers, but $8M (current value of the ore) is a fortune, nothing like the paychecks the Mexican Nationals are sending south to help their families today. Makes one believe there's something wrong with the story somewhere. Or he must have really loved that babe in Germany!!

 

[BILL96]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

It was her strudel, she made great strudel.

 

[gollum]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

That "babe" in Germany was his wife, and people in those days took their marital responsibilities a LOT more seriously than most do today.

Who knows. He never (according to any accounts I have ever heard) had a girlfriend. Maybe he planned on going back home one day, and reuniting with his family, until he got sick after the flood.

Mike

 

[the blindbowman]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

i found no sign of a wife but i did find what i beleive was his mother and father . but his father died shortly after he came to america , his mother remarried some time after . if he did send money , it would have most likely been to his mother ...or his half sister ....she was 15 years younger then the dutchman ...i found records of her haveing 3 childern two boys and a daughter .one sone vanishes after 17 years of age and the other marries there and vanishes ..his mother comes to america in her later years and remarries ...

 

[Zephyr]

Re: histroy of the cave /tunnel

At the end of his life he appeared just plain dirt poor, if he had actually made that much cash their should have been something left, maybe still burried in his old back yard?
Bill

...

His property was searched pretty well from what I understand.

Oh? They had MD's back then...?
Anything buried on the property was either found long ago when it was developed, or is paved over with concrete. Still, it would be an interesting area to MD. (I bet that it was buried under the chicken coop. Not a fun place to dig....)