Historically what depth do very old ships wreck in? What depth would you search?

[SADS 669]

The 3 fathom curve in the vicinity of the Cat Cays might not be a bad spot to look.
It is pretty much the narrowest spot in the Bahama Channel and has a nice little "shelf" between 3 and 10 fathoms...plenty of space for a ship to come to rest without sliding down into the briny deep.
Just to the south of the Cat Cays, are the Victory Cays. I don't know the genesis of that place name, but I include a clipping from 1838 for your consideration. You will no doubt take note of the ship Victory, Capt. Dunham, lost in the vicinity with $30,000 in specie aboard. I do not know if the ship has been found and salvaged, but the area would seem to be an ideal shipwreck trap.

View attachment 837596 Oct 4th, 1838

View attachment 837597

Thanks J M

I am over on Long Island but I plan to be over that way in a year or so with a buddy and will note it, you're the best, thanks again
Kevin

 

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[ivan salis]

a lot depends upon the size (and thus draft of the vessel) , plus the size of the storm wave size troughs -- good rule of thumb is 20 feet deep (3 fathoms- 18 feet) to about 40 / 50 foot (7 or 8 fathoms - 42 /48 feet) feet depending upon type of vessel and the storm's wave size. --if your looking close to shore .--most ships had to strike something to start the breaking up process * most of them did not just "fall apart" or roll over and sink --only a few basically unseaworthy vessels or total mishandled vessels sank like that -- most vessels were driven into the shore or rocks and "broke up upon hitting the rocks or bottom bouncing on their hulls in shallow water until their hulls burst from the impacts and strain

 

[Jason in Enid]

I would have to disagree ivan, There have been lots of ships broken apart at sea from being pounded by massive waves. The SS Central America sank with a fortune in gold in deep water after being caught in a storm. The TV show Deadliest Catch has had video of rescues from ships going down after being crippled by giant waves far from land.

There are also cases of ships being disabled off shore and then being driven onto reef, rocks, or shoreline by wind and waves.

 

[ivan salis]

yes of course some vessels simply "floundered" or broke up after getting caught wrong by the waves of a storm ---but the vast % of vessels did not sink until they hit something solid --the waves might have crippled their rudders , or winds shredded their sails , rending them powerless in the days of sail and at the mercy of the waves but mainly along the "treasure fleet" route --in the early days they sailed by "dead reckoning" and thus they were often quite close to land to see the "visual landmarks" they used in navigation at that time -- thus they were in deep trouble if a sudden and powerful storm hit them and forced them into the nearby reefs and shallows and shoreline areas of Florida

worthy of note -- I am a retired 27 year veteran merchant marine , who spent about 8 months per year at sea each year while going to sea (so about 18 years of my life were spent aboard ship at sea travelling onboard ocean going vessels all over the world.)

 

[Jolly Mon]

"Approximately 98 percent of all ships lost in the Western Hemisphere prior to 1825 were lost in shallow waters at depths of 30 feet or less, which makes them much easier to locate and salvage. In the Mediterranean, however, the reverse is true, as at least 95 percent of the shipwrecks lie in depths of over 100 feet."
---Robert Marx, Shipwrecks in the Americas.

 

[ivan salis]

THE MED HAS RAPID DEEP SHORE LINE DROP OFFS LIKE A LETTER --- L--- LIKE MARX SAYS 30 FEET ( I SAY 3 FATHTOMS (18 FEET) TO 7 FATHOMS (42 FEET) IS PRIME HUNTING AREA--PLEASE NOTE HALF WAY BETWEEN 20 AND 40 IS 30 FEET--- I SAY 20 TO 40 TO ACCOUNT FOR VARIABLES LIKE SHIP SIZE /DRAFT AND WAVE TROUGH SIZE.
*

 

[SADS 669]

I guess then the debris field may start slightly shallower 10 to 20 feet and the wreck proper is likely to be about 25 to 35 or so?

Thanks everyone for the guidance.

 

[ivan salis]

depend on the size of the vessels draft and the waves trough depth but 20 to 40 feet depth are prime depths to look for shoreline shallow water wrecks

 

[SADS 669]

depend on the size of the vessels draft and the waves trough depth but 20 to 40 feet depth are prime depths to look for shoreline shallow water wrecks

Thanks Ivan, I'll let you know if I find anything.........

 

[captbonnie]

Just wondering....my understanding no leases have been granted sounds like you are underway & searching? Please keep it legal....there is a lot at stake

 

[SADS 669]

Just wondering....my understanding no leases have been granted sounds like you are underway & searching? Please keep it legal....there is a lot at stake

I only operate a look, maybe find but don't touch policy. I want to find wrecks, keep the location very secret until I can be assured that revealing where I found it will end up with any project being completed the way we would all ( the non pirates that is ) expect it to be done properly

With regard to treasure hunting for me the "treasure" is in the looking and maybe finding but not in the pillaging. I wish everyone thought this way.... As a Bahamian I feel very strongly about our property and heritage being protected. I have retired and am doing this purely for fun and not gain.

I am being very honest with what I am doing because I have nothing to hide and hopefully others will also deal with this often "too secretive and nefarious" subject in the way it should be and discourage or report some of the illegality that causes us shipwreck searchers to be tarred with the pirate brush.

No one should avoid searching, everyone should avoid breaking the law of the land which I respect.

 

[TheRingFinder]

Hey Frank,

Thanks or this is I am actually lying on the floor only chuckling now after LMAO. Seriously, I live in the middle of absolutely nowhere here in the Bahamas ( bliss) , I have to drive 25 miles to my bank, 15 to the food store and there is not a single outlet of info here.

Thanks so much for that info I am planning to spend a day in the archives in Nassau next time I am there so good advice. I was looking through my log books the other day and have about 1500 logged solo dives, so I should be ok(I hope) on the experience side diving solo. I do try to think ahead all the time during a dive and have a mental,sliding scale of risk reward based on weather, current, boat or no boat while underwater.

I know there are many people who go nuts when you tell them you dive alone but as a consenting adult I make a choice and I am prepared for the possible consequences and being so remote here, there are no buddy's anyhow ��

Thanks again.

I dive alone all the time - when I do dive with partners, it doesn't really matter safety wise anyway.........The only time we see each other is before the dive and 3 hours later, after the dive. Hey Sadds - Maybe I'll join you for a few dives soon - i'm planning on retirement soon.......Them i shall be free to roam!!!!!!!

 

[VERDE]

Hey SADS 669!! Interesting Post! I think ropesfish has an excellent comment!! Drag, Weight, Draft, Ocean Height at the time of the Storm, all have variable outcomes!! Vessel could break up at any time!! But if the rig were to stay together until it a shoal, then the punishment would begin!! As I discussed with GatorBoy, let me find Ballast in Knee deep water and make my day!! Diving Solo is a personal decision!! They Guys I dive with really donot have concerns with this!! We all know the consequences!! Working on Short Dives are relatively Safe, but it always help to have to have assist if you hit a promising site!! In any event, if you find Goldies, you may need assist to salvage with expeditious recovery time!! GOOD HUNTING!! VERDE!!

 

[SADS 669]

I dive alone all the time - when I do dive with partners, it doesn't really matter safety wise anyway.........The only time we see each other is before the dive and 3 hours later, after the dive. Hey Sadds - Maybe I'll join you for a few dives soon - i'm planning on retirement soon.......Them i shall be free to roam!!!!!!!

Great idea, then we can dive solo together😊

 

[BVI Hunter]

Just wondering....my understanding no leases have been granted sounds like you are underway & searching? Please keep it legal....there is a lot at stake

just wondering....

what is "at stake" exactly??

 

[BVI Hunter]

The 3 fathom curve in the vicinity of the Cat Cays might not be a bad spot to look.
It is pretty much the narrowest spot in the Bahama Channel and has a nice little "shelf" between 3 and 10 fathoms...plenty of space for a ship to come to rest without sliding down into the briny deep.
Just to the south of the Cat Cays, are the Victory Cays. I don't know the genesis of that place name, but I include a clipping from 1838 for your consideration. You will no doubt take note of the ship Victory, Capt. Dunham, lost in the vicinity with $30,000 in specie aboard. I do not know if the ship has been found and salvaged, but the area would seem to be an ideal shipwreck trap.

I have some pals heading over to Cat Cays very very soon - 2 wrecks located and so far un-salvaged by anyone as far as they can tell.
Should be interesting to say the least!!!

 

[huntsman53]

just wondering....

what is "at stake" exactly??

Yeah, it sounds a little fishy to me as well! It sounds more like someone or certain individual is/are trying to find out where other individuals are making finds and then work out some kind of (possibly highly questionable) deal, so that they can have the salvage rights all to themselves.


Frank

 

[BVI Hunter]

Yeah, it sounds a little fishy to me as well! It sounds more like someone or certain individual is/are trying to find out where other individuals are making finds and then work out some kind of (possibly highly questionable) deal, so that they can have the salvage rights all to themselves.


Frank

That's why my pals are heading to the Cats covertly!!
Oh, they do have a fishing license - does that count?

 

[Jason in Enid]

Who needs a fishing license? Just say you are going scuba diving! Lots of great diving around Cat cay.

 

[SADS 669]

Who needs a fishing license? Just say you are going scuba diving! Lots of great diving around Cat cay.

Now,now gentlemen ( I use the term loosely) stop stirring the pot, naughty LOL😊

I know all three of you are good guys, at least you call each other such?