Ground Balance Trackig

[vferrari]

Charles looks like we'll be getting high mineralization data from both coasts next week. Should be some good info for this thread. Hopefully I can get some video to post.

 

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[Bharpring]

Videos would be perfect! In the video that TN posted the link about silencer the guy also had to adjust the GB and it looked like the GB was a moving target, which is exactly what I experience when I start increasing Disc. It didn’t look like he ever got it perfectly adjusted. As far as silencer is concerned, I wouldn’t mind if the next Deus update fixed that filter at -1. My soil is generally mild like Calabash’s but will change in patches on a site drastically and if you don’t pay attention to it you loose a lot of depth and crisp sounding good targets.

 

[Mike G.]

Charles, doesn't sound like NY mineralized ground you're talking about but more like my ground here in Washington State. I have used the Minelab Sovereigns and Whites 5900/6000 detectors for many years here with great success but haven't used them since I bought my Deus about a year ago. I bought the Deus on a whim because of it's portability as the old logging camps I hunt are backpack type hunting sometimes miles from roads. It's worked great for deep, woods iron infested areas but have since discovered it works just as well hunting old Victorian homes and old parks. It will be interesting to see your silencer tests.

 

[CharlesUpstateNY]

Charles, doesn't sound like NY mineralized ground you're talking about but more like my ground here in Washington State. I have used the Minelab Sovereigns and Whites 5900/6000 detectors for many years here with great success but haven't used them since I bought my Deus about a year ago. I bought the Deus on a whim because of it's portability as the old logging camps I hunt are backpack type hunting sometimes miles from roads. It's worked great for deep, woods iron infested areas but have since discovered it works just as well hunting old Victorian homes and old parks. It will be interesting to see your silencer tests.

Yes Mike I live just north of Vancouver, WA. Soil varies around here from annoying to horrid. In comparison NY soil was mild, I long for the good old days in NY. lol

 

[vferrari]

Videos would be perfect! In the video that TN posted the link about silencer the guy also had to adjust the GB and it looked like the GB was a moving target, which is exactly what I experience when I start increasing Disc. It didn’t look like he ever got it perfectly adjusted. As far as silencer is concerned, I wouldn’t mind if the next Deus update fixed that filter at -1. My soil is generally mild like Calabash’s but will change in patches on a site drastically and if you don’t pay attention to it you loose a lot of depth and crisp sounding good targets.

A lot of us (including Andy Sabisch) were hoping XP w would decouple the Silencer setting from the Reactivity setting. Keeping Silencer at -1 is one of the reasons why I choose Deus Fast as the base program starting point for my Custom programs.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

One must ask themselves why Xp included silencer and allowed it to be adjusted.

I need to mention this.

When we say a setting when adjusted so so affects depth, what do we mean exactly?

IMO what this really means, deeper targets may not be heard period tonally, or the signal provided on the deeper targets is somewhat compromised.

Would it be a fair statement, a worse than best signal has a chance even if slight, to be missed by a user?

Now, it may be possible to say adjust silencer up higher and still be able to hear a target,,but once you know where it is!!
This is the problem with you tube videos when comparing detectors.

Big difference in initially locating vs swinging another detector or the same detector with less than Stellar settings.

The Deus, in real bad ground mineral wise, gotta watch the freq used too. I think most folks will find running highest band approx 18khz will yield best overall signals with other settings dialed in more correct/correct. Reactivty too is key, not too low setting wise in the real bad ground.
Yes, Deus will be limited for depth.
In the real bad stuff, a CW button at 7" deep might be time for a party and celebration.

Silencer setting in worse ground, will also drive sweep speed setting.

Silencer I connect to the eagle's eye,,when set to -1 the eagle's eye is wide open so to speak.
The eagle's eye is also affected by Reactivty setting as it relates to ground minerals.

Reactivty setting in worse ground will also drive allowed sweep speed.

Now the this sweep speed here, the more challenged the target masked wise, and or challenged by higher mineral soil.

So you sweep too fast, you won't know necessarily what you are missing nonferrous target wise.
And you may still find some targets even good ones, and this could lure you the user into a false sense of security-as far as just how good your settings are for site/conditions.

 

[vferrari]

One must ask themselves why Xp included silencer and allowed it to be adjusted.

I need to mention this.

When we say a setting when adjusted so so affects depth, what do we mean exactly?

IMO what this really means, deeper targets may not be heard period tonally, or the signal provided on the deeper targets is somewhat compromised.

Would it be a fair statement, a worse than best signal has a chance even if slight, to be missed by a user?

Now, it may be possible to say adjust silencer up higher and still be able to hear a target,,but once you know where it is!!
This is the problem with you tube videos when comparing detectors.

Big difference in initially locating vs swinging another detector or the same detector with less than Stellar settings.

The Deus, in real bad ground mineral wise, gotta watch the freq used too. I think most folks will find running highest band approx 18khz will yield best overall signals with other settings dialed in more correct/correct. Reactivty too is key, not too low setting wise in the real bad ground.
Yes, Deus will be limited for depth.
In the real bad stuff, a CW button at 7" deep might be time for a party and celebration.

That's what I aim to find out.

Not necessarily in agreement that 18 khz is the best all around frequency to use (if that is what you are saying) because the lower frequencies penetrate better for larger, high conductive targets. Also, out of Andy's book. I think 18KHZ is good for small, mid-conductive targets, but not necessarily for high conductors because it gets attenuated more than the lower frequency signals. All things being equal (see page 15 of the Handbook). 26 khz from the high frequency coil is even better for those mid-conductors.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

That's what I aim to find out.

Not necessarily in agreement that 18 khz is the best all around frequency to use (if that is what you are saying) because the lower frequencies penetrate better for larger, high conductive targets. Also, out of Andy's book. I think 18KHZ is good for small, mid-conductive targets, but not necessarily for high conductors because it gets attenuated more than the lower frequency signals. All things being equal (see page 15 of the Handbook). 26 khz from the high frequency coil is even better for those mid-conductors.

IN real hot dirt, highest band freq will punch deeper.

What about HF elliptical coi for Deus?
In real hot dirt 28.8khz will be deeper on a silver dime than 14.4khz will be.

This gent's soil not mild by no means.
Check out this video.
Notice what happens to signal on 10" deep dime when freq is drooped on the elliptical HF coil.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=UUKE-CYO_3G59P3_mCqT4OKQ&v=J6mPotkwp6c

I will make a bet with anyone here.

Take a Deus with LF coil.
I'll bet you can't here a target using 4khz you can't here with 18khz.
Now in mild ground if a bigger higher conductor the 4khz signal may sound stronger, but you start raising mineral levels there will come a point 18khz will dominate, actually will sound off where 4khz won't at all.

Anyone paying attention.
Notice the Euro units.
Some deep detectors in bad ground,,notice the freqs they run at?
Not low, but High like 18kh-24khz.

My deep tech warrior runs at 18khz.
It is deep on high conductors in high mineral-even a clad or silver dime.

Just remember most things we are detecting for, they are not half dollar or silver dollar sized generally.

More like dime to nickel sized.

Same gent, same ground(not gentle).
He does mistakingly say detector is 19 khz unit, it is actually a 18khz unit.
Notice how the detector hits the deep dimes.
Not too many Vlf detectors can do this actually, or as well.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qDsCGhZ0udw

 

[vferrari]

IN real hot dirt, highest band freq will punch deeper.

What about HF elliptical coi for Deus?
In real hot dirt 28.8khz will be deeper on a silver dime than 14.4khz will be.

This gent's soil not mild by no means.
Check out this video.
Notice what happens to signal on 10" deep dime when freq is drooped on the elliptical HF coil.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=UUKE-CYO_3G59P3_mCqT4OKQ&v=J6mPotkwp6c

I will make a bet with anyone here.

Take a Deus with LF coil.
I'll bet you can't here a target using 4khz you can't here with 18khz.
Now in mild ground if a bigger higher conductor the 4khz signal may sound stronger, but you start raising mineral levels there will come a point 18khz will dominate, actually will sound off where 4khz won't at all.

Anyone paying attention.
Notice the Euro units.
Some deep detectors in bad ground,,notice the freqs they run at?
Not low, but High like 18kh-24khz.

My deep tech warrior runs at 18khz.
It is deep on high conductors in high mineral-even a clad or silver dime.

Just remember most things we are detecting for, they are not half dollar or silver dollar sized generally.

More like dime to nickel sized.

Same gent, same ground(not gentle).
He does mistakingly say detector is 19 khz unit, it is actually a 18khz unit.
Notice how the detector hits the deep dimes.
Not too many Vlf detectors can do this actually, or as well.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qDsCGhZ0udw

I like to say there is general guidance but no absolutes in detecting so be careful about making pronouncements as if they are gospel. You like to quote tech manuals and Andy's book to me to make your point, I offered a page of reference in Andy's book in the previous post and you just ignored it, so I am just going to put this out there and let folks decide for themselves since it runs counter to some of the statements you have made above. I acknowledge your one-off videos for specific cases, of specific targets, under specific conditions, with a specific detector.

But I specifically disagree with your absolute statement that "In real hot dirt 28.8khz will be deeper on a silver dime than 14.4khz will be." Could be true under specific situations but it certainly runs counter to the general guidance (again based on physics) below. Also, your statement regarding 4 khz ("Take a Deus with LF coil. I'll bet you can't here a target using 4khz you can't here with 18khz. Now in mild ground if a bigger higher conductor the 4khz signal may sound stronger, but you start raising mineral levels there will come a point 18khz will dominate, actually will sound off where 4khz won't at all.") I disagree with the first sentence if you are talking about any ground condition, because 4 khz certainly penetrates deeper than 18 khz (again based on physics), but with respect to mineralized ground, this is not a true apples-to-apples comparison because TX Power is locked at 3 for 4 khz and that is not the case for 18 khz, and we all know that can be signal killer under mineralized ground conditions. I lament the fact that XP decided to lock TX power at 3 for 4 khz because it would be great to see what 4 khz could actually do in mineralized ground vs. 18 khz if you could lower Tx power. So objective video evidence that 18 khz may be deeper under mineralized conditions in specific circumstances vs. 4 khz may be based on the "design quirk" specific to the Deus that XP locked TX power at 3. So yeah, 4 khz is not ideal for mineralized ground because of the TX power quirk, but I dare say that 8 khz may perform better than 18 khz under mineralized ground conditions for coin sized (non-hammered) or larger higher conductive targets, based purely on the physics of signal attenuation in ground of higher frequency signals.

Again, I emphasize that there is no ideal frequency overall that can be used to maximize depth, it depends on your target (size and conductivity), ground conditions. We can both pull specific Youtube videos that appear to refute what the other is saying. But the general rules of thumb based on the physics that are described succinctly below and tend to hold true overall or at least provide a great starting point for the detectorist until they hone in what is working best at their particular site. I would rather go with the physics based approach than rely on any particular you tube video demonstration where the conditions cannot be verified and where things may be idealized to that specific site.

Andy's book p. 14 (I have highlighted selected phrases in bold):

"In general, the higher the frequency a detector operates at, the more sensitive it tends to be to smaller, low-conductive targets, an the better it operates in soils containing lower levels of mineralization. On the other hand, lower frequencies tend to be better a locating higher conductive targets such as copper and silver, provided [sic] more stable operation in higher mineralized soil and slightly deeper detection depth."

Andy provides a little table that shows how detection depth, optimal target conductivity and optimal target size and "preferred" ground mineralization vary depending on operating frequency and consistent with the above paragraph.

What is the ideal frequency? The frequency that works best for your specific situation. The point being that the Deus, unlike many detectors with fixed frequency designs, offers you the most extreme range of choices from 4 khz all the way up to 80 khz. It is to the detectorists' advantage to put as many of these frequencies to work at a particular site as is practical based on time rather than be limited to one. As you might say, if 18 khz is ideal, why did Deus bother to provide all the other frequencies?

Furthermore, recent guidance provided by Andy at Bootcamps for relic detecting in hot soil like Culpeper (he actually tested the settings in Culpeper) using Gold Field and the HF coil actually recommend that the detectorist start with 14 khz (in the middle of the low frequency range setting of the hf coil). That is where I intend to start, but I do plan on operating at the higher frequencies (especially 26 khz) as well because they will likely hit harder on smaller mid conductors like brass buttons and hardware vs. higher conductors like the larger lead minie balls when I test this out for myself next week. Can't wait.

Anyhoo, standing by to hear how wrong I am...again. lol.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

I like to say there is general guidance but no absolutes in detecting so be careful about making pronouncements as if they are gospel. You like to quote tech manuals and Andy's book to me to make your point, I offered a page of reference in Andy's book in the previous post and you just ignored it, so I am just going to put this out there and let folks decide for themselves since it runs counter to some of the statements you have made above. I acknowledge your one-off videos for specific cases, of specific targets, under specific conditions, with a specific detector.

But I specifically disagree with your absolute statement that "In real hot dirt 28.8khz will be deeper on a silver dime than 14.4khz will be." Could be true under specific situations but it certainly runs counter to the general guidance (again based on physics) below. Also, your statement regarding 4 khz ("Take a Deus with LF coil. I'll bet you can't here a target using 4khz you can't here with 18khz. Now in mild ground if a bigger higher conductor the 4khz signal may sound stronger, but you start raising mineral levels there will come a point 18khz will dominate, actually will sound off where 4khz won't at all.") I disagree with the first sentence if you are talking about any ground condition, because 4 khz certainly penetrates deeper than 18 khz (again based on physics), but with respect to mineralized ground, this is not a true apples-to-apples comparison because TX Power is locked at 3 for 4 khz and that is not the case for 18 khz, and we all know that can be signal killer under mineralized ground conditions. I lament the fact that XP decided to lock TX power at 3 for 4 khz because it would be great to see what 4 khz could actually do in mineralized ground vs. 18 khz if you could lower Tx power. So objective video evidence that 18 khz may be deeper under mineralized conditions in specific circumstances vs. 4 khz may be based on the "design quirk" specific to the Deus that XP locked TX power at 3. So yeah, 4 khz is not ideal for mineralized ground because of the TX power quirk, but I dare say that 8 khz may perform better than 18 khz under mineralized ground conditions for coin sized (non-hammered) or larger higher conductive targets, based purely on the physics of signal attenuation in ground of higher frequency signals.

Again, I emphasize that there is no ideal frequency overall that can be used to maximize depth, it depends on your target (size and conductivity), ground conditions. We can both pull specific Youtube videos that appear to refute what the other is saying. But the general rules of thumb based on the physics that are described succinctly below and tend to hold true overall or at least provide a great starting point for the detectorist until they hone in what is working best at their particular site. I would rather go with the physics based approach than rely on any particular you tube video demonstration where the conditions cannot be verified and where things may be idealized to that specific site.

Andy's book p. 14 (I have highlighted selected phrases in bold):

"In general, the higher the frequency a detector operates at, the more sensitive it tends to be to smaller, low-conductive targets, an the better it operates in soils containing lower levels of mineralization. On the other hand, lower frequencies tend to be better a locating higher conductive targets such as copper and silver, provided [sic] more stable operation in higher mineralized soil and slightly deeper detection depth."

Andy provides a little table that shows how detection depth, optimal target conductivity and optimal target size and "preferred" ground mineralization vary depending on operating frequency and consistent with the above paragraph.

What is the ideal frequency? The frequency that works best for your specific situation. The point being that the Deus, unlike many detectors with fixed frequency designs, offers you the most extreme range of choices from 4 khz all the way up to 80 khz. It is to the detectorists' advantage to put as many of these frequencies to work at a particular site as is practical based on time rather than be limited to one. As you might say, if 18 khz is ideal, why did Deus bother to provide all the other frequencies?

Furthermore, recent guidance provided by Andy at Bootcamps for relic detecting in hot soil like Culpeper (he actually tested the settings in Culpeper) using Gold Field and the HF coil actually recommend that the detectorist start with 14 khz (in the middle of the low frequency range setting of the hf coil). That is where I intend to start, but I do plan on operating at the higher frequencies (especially 26 khz) as well because they will likely hit harder on smaller mid conductors like brass buttons and hardware vs. higher conductors like the larger lead minie balls when I test this out for myself next week. Can't wait.

Anyhoo, standing by to hear how wrong I am...again. lol.

Well, I referenced Andy's book by page number.
I certainly didn't quote any passages from his book.
I think that is against the law- copyright laws.
See bottom of first page in Deus Handbook.
It reads as follows, "No portions of this book may be reproduced in print or electronically without express written permission by the author."

Maybe you have permission to reproduce here.



I try to post accurate info.

Look around even at other forums, I don't think you'll see many folks stating using lower freq bands like 4khz and 8khz perform as well as the 12khz and 18khz do-in harsh soil mineral wise.

I know what physics say about this, but I think this is where the USA detector manufacturers missed the boat.
It has some thing to do with more sampling of target in bad dirt with the higher freq being run.
So detector get more info to draw conclusion as to target being nonferrous vs ferrous.

Target size fits in somewhere here too.

A car hood vs a nickel or dime sized target,,could there be a difference freq wise which is better to detector car hood sized target buried in bad dirt?

Have loads of Deus hours.
Only sharing my experiences.
I haven't done any videos.

Probably a good thing.
Folks might have got bored watching.
They would have been be very educational though.

 

[vferrari]

Well, I referenced Andy's book by page number.
I certainly didn't quote any passages from his book.
I think that is against the law- copyright laws.
See bottom of first page in Deus Handbook.
It reads as follows, "No portions of this book may be reproduced in print or electronically without express written permission by the author."

Maybe you have permission to reproduce here.



I try to post accurate info.

Look around even at other forums, I don't think you'll see many folks stating using lower freq bands like 4khz and 8khz perform as well as the 12khz and 18khz do-in harsh soil mineral wise.

I know what physics say about this, but I think this is where the USA detector manufacturers missed the boat.
It has some thing to do with more sampling of target in bad dirt with the higher freq being run.
So detector get more info to draw conclusion as to target being nonferrous vs ferrous.

Target size fits in somewhere here too.

A car hood vs a nickel or dime sized target,,could there be a difference freq wise which is better to detector car hood sized target buried in bad dirt?

Have loads of Deus hours.
Only sharing my experiences.
I haven't done any videos.

Probably a good thing.
Folks might have got bored watching.
They would have been be very educational though.

First of all, unlike forum rules, no copyright laws have been violated, sheesh. I gave attribution to Andy's book and did not purport the cited sections as my own original thoughts just as any high schooler writing a term paper would do. So please spare me. But I'll be sure to ask Sabisch at the next bootcamp if he is going to sue me for copyright infringement. Also, accusations of copyright infringement notwithstanding, do you have any specific comments on what Andy has written. Is he just plain wrong? Also, you brought up 4khz again, but no comment on the tx3 quirk I pointed out?

Second, I am just trying to put information out too so people can come to their own conclusions and have pointed out some inconsistencies in your statements with statements by supposed technical experts but I have always tried to make sure to say "it depends" because you can't make very many definitive statements when it comes to metal detecting. I guess that is why we can easily find ways to counter each other's specific statements. I think we are actually in general agreement and because of the differences in the way we express ourselves sometimes talk past each other. When I agree with what you are saying I say so. I could be wrong, but I don't recall that you have ever given me the same benefit of the doubt. I think it has come to the point where the back and forth is either counterproductive or confusing to the readers. So I will tend to show restraint and hold off on commenting as frequently.

I think you make some great points. Obviously have a lot of experience with the Deus but sometimes I secretly wish you would get interested in your Nokta Impact again. Of course, I’m kidding. Tnet Deus users can benefit from your input so obviously keep posting, but I just no longer have the will or desire to bring attention to what I may consider information that runs counter to my experiences or what I will simply call metal detecting "conventional wisdom" and focus on the posts where we share the same point of view.

I’m probably overreacting here but am pretty exasperated. I welcome other forum members either publicly or privately (i.e, via PM) putting me in my place. Thanks.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

I don't post info to just prove anyone wrong.
I sincerely want folks to enjoy their equipment.
And be successful with it too.

I figure if they are in the "say" Deus subsection here they are looking for info, tidbits and just maybe are seeing if what they are witnessing using their equipment mirrors or is close to being similar what others have/are experiencing.

I don't post one off videos just to try to make a cheap point.
Actually if I do post a video of an already released detector I have experience with, I try to post only videos (IMO not rigged) that support very near or ideally what I see in the field using the same detector,,even the coils(different sizes).

How good is the elliptical HF coil for Deus?
I will post a few finds here.

The half dime below, I probably swept a hundred times with Deus LF coils, and then more times additionally with other detector models.

Here is a Spanish bit found about 30 ft from half dime above using elliptical coil.
Again this bit had been swept countless times using Deus and LF coils, other detector models too.

Here's another elliptical coil discovery.
The real tiny bit on far right,,dime in pic for scale. The other bits were found previous like 4 plus years ago in same area.
This target I had swept many times before using Deus LF coils and other detectors but not as many as the 2 finds above.

Where all 3 of these finds found, I have virtually lived in the areas where these were found for the last 5 years.
Detecting, testing detectors.

Deus elliptical HF coil, these finds made here.
Made me a real believer in the little elliptical coil.

There are landmarks near every location where these finds found.
I know more or less precisely where I had detected previously here.
And just kept going back, and going back, and going back.
Why?
This site is likely the oldest site near me for a 30mile radius.
So, I like looking for something older.
Mercs don't turn me on much.

Site /area is high iron content too, rancid in certain areas.
Actually where the full bit and half dime came from, this was from the more/most rancid parts.

 

[vferrari]

i agree there is something about that elliptical coil that defies "convetional wisdom" (in this case that the higher frequencies do not penetrate as well for high conductors). A fellow Tnet user with a Deus elliptical is just sucking things out of the ground with it that you wouldn't think would be any more "visible", and, in fact, you would think less "visible" with the hf coil. I speculate that user experience (you are both very experienced detectorists) and the quietness and stability of the hf coil are contributing factors. Who knows, but there is something there that defies explanation. But also note that even though your tiny finds are comprised of high conductive material, they are indeed small objects and, as such, may appear as "mid-conductors" to the detector because of that and it is the higher detector frequencies that are optimal for small, "mid-conductive" targets. So maybe, there is no real mystery here, but some great finds nevertheless.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Yes the stability and quietness I think help.

One thing I notice about this coil.

Most times when finds are dug (nonferrous) and the plug is out, you sweep with elliptical HF coil user likely to hear iron tone.
And beleive it or not, no ferrous noted in plugs either sometimes.

Seems like elliptical coil is ground reactive, disturb the ground it does some thing to the target.

This elliptical coil, the hardest coil to do recoveries with.
Pinpointer can help some times.
Folks be on guard.
What you'll find yourself doing sometimes is digging out your target, sweeping plug or dirt and you'll hear static or iron tone, and will continue to dig, to only find your nonferrous target was out of hole the whole time.

Mind blowing what happens here a lot of times.

Saw this a lot less using LF coils with Deus and other detectors too.

 

[vferrari]

I will likely be using a new elliptical in the mineralized ground next week so will look out for that effect. Have only used 9" round hf to this point.

 

[CharlesUpstateNY]

I like to say there is general guidance but no absolutes in detecting so be careful about making pronouncements as if they are gospel.

I used to run around saying this and that was gospel, then over the years found exceptions to every rule and had to eat crow. LOL

 

[CharlesUpstateNY]

TN/vferrari you guys are delving into the spooky expert level of detecting where things get weird and you are sometimes left scratching your head. That's where most of my gospel rules break down. There are so many variables at the expert level some things simply have to be chocked up to well that's how things at the expert level.

For targets that suddenly appear at sites previously beat to death, was it the coil, or did the soil move over the winter(s) flipping the targets. Very common up in NY for freezing temps to flip targets end over end, sites pounded to nothing after a couple winter freezes heaving the soil (water expands when frozen so its common for the soil in NY to heave up several inches) flipping targets that were on edge or partially on edge and not detectable, suddenly the site lights up with targets again.

For targets that suddenly appear soil moisture, wet vs damp vs dry as a bone. Dry soil shuts iron up, iron signals become smaller, there are iron infested sites I wouldn't even bother hunting when the soil was wet, come back in the dry season and much easier to get hits on targets in the iron. But bone dry soil hurts depth so in other conditions damp to wet soil may result in a hit on a target that wasn't detectable when the soil was bone dry.

Just saying.

 

[vferrari]

Thanks Charles we were venturing into the heart of metal detecting darkness. The way that leads to madness. Thanks for the sanity check.

I agree that stuff is constantly moving up, down, and around in the soil due to settling, frost heave, root action, and human factors (e.g., landscaping, plowing, and construction). That how I find a buffalo nickel in freshly placed playground mulch. I like to imagine the journey it took to end up there.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

TN/vferrari you guys are delving into the spooky expert level of detecting where things get weird and you are sometimes left scratching your head. That's where most of my gospel rules break down. There are so many variables at the expert level some things simply have to be chocked up to well that's how things at the expert level.

For targets that suddenly appear at sites previously beat to death, was it the coil, or did the soil move over the winter(s) flipping the targets. Very common up in NY for freezing temps to flip targets end over end, sites pounded to nothing after a couple winter freezes heaving the soil (water expands when frozen so its common for the soil in NY to heave up several inches) flipping targets that were on edge or partially on edge and not detectable, suddenly the site lights up with targets again.

For targets that suddenly appear soil moisture, wet vs damp vs dry as a bone. Dry soil shuts iron up, iron signals become smaller, there are iron infested sites I wouldn't even bother hunting when the soil was wet, come back in the dry season and much easier to get hits on targets in the iron. But bone dry soil hurts depth so in other conditions damp to wet soil may result in a hit on a target that wasn't detectable when the soil was bone dry.

Just saying.

Well, anyone can assume or think anything they want.

XP Deus even with LF coils I think it is safe to say has been ranked high for minerals handling for Vlf and does extremely well with separation/unmasking for coil size.

Now enter HF elliptical coil.

Think about this.

What other Vlf detectors are out there that can be run at 28.8 khz give or take with a smallish coil.
And remember what I said about Deus DNA above.

This is the reason when I test and make such comments, I use what I call controlled sites.
And beat and pound around in them to see what happens with a detector.

Just while ago I was at an old house site.
The end of the house, 5 plus years ago I found a deep IH with Etrac,,10" deep. I have been at the end of this house with every detector I have owned. Some different coils too, to include Deus with LF coils.
Walked in to this spot dropped the HF elliptical in there get a banging signal reading 95.
My eyes lit up, dug down and out pops a clad dime.
This could have been the silver one, but wouldn't.
Still though another what I call a good high conductor find in an area I have spent a lot of time.

I see a trend definitely.
I don't jump to conclusions, I need to see some thing happening more than once or twice before I start giving huge credit here.

Make no mistake Deus elliptical HF coil is for real.
A monster of a coil/detector setup.

Let's keep watching.
I am certain there will be some gold coins pulled this latter fall, winter, and spring detecting season.

Folks who THINK their old sites are cleaned out- think again.
Now, your finds pouch may not be runneth over, but finds I think will materialize.

The elliptical coil I think can see coins on edge or out of whack moreso position wise.
Also elliptical coil can actually be swept and break over iron/nail and punch deep closer to the ferrous.

I have done test and see this definitely.
It is frequency dependent too.
Using 14.4khz a user is sacrificing some very nice performancewith this coil,,make no mistake.

 

[tnsharpshooter]

Here is some info comparing some of the Deus coils.
This was posted by me on other forums a while back.
Will share here.

Not much detecting done today.
Was ask to test a 10" deep clad dime uaing round HF coil for a gent.
So thought I would share here.

I compared the round HF, 9" LF and the elliptical HF coil over 3 different freshly buried clad dimes 10" deep in the same field.
Mineral strength meter reads 6 ticks.
Audio response 5, headphone vol6, sens dialed to 92 on all.
The HF coils were allowed only to be run at their center freq per freq band.
Plugs wer kept intact as possible, coin placed in side of hole, with a lot of stomping on the plug afterwards.
All 3 buried dimes yielded for a practical purposes the same results.

All three dimes using all three coils were compared from the best possible angle of sweeping over the buried dimes.

First off LF 9" coil,,no diggable signal, using any programs and settings I could think of. Even deep mode tx power 2 and 3.
Did not try to manipulate GB on any of the coils

Round HF coil gave best signal using deep program and freqs of 28.8 kHz and 54khz.
14khz only pecked on the dime. Reactivty settings 2 and 2.5 silencer -1,,,btw signal could be acquired even with silencer maxed.
Running Reactivty below 2.5 did seem to add some iron component to signal and made a bit more choppy.
Inwould likely stick with Reactivty 2.5 when hunting this ground based on what I heard using this coil,,,for max depth.
Reactivty 3 silencer -1,,signal a no go.
Tried hot program,,using 14.4khz good luck finding this dime!!!
Using 28.8khz gave a signal but not as good as deep program.
Using 54 kHz gave a signal better than using this same program and 28.8khz.

Deus fast program,,14.4khz a no go.
Using freq 28.8 kHz a signal gotten worse than signal obtained using hot program same settings.
Using freq 54khz a signal worse than hot program same settings.

GM Power actually gave the second best signal obtained.
But 14.4khz again a no go.
Using 28.8 kHz sounded smooth but weaker than deep program same settings.
Using 54khz sounded ok but had seemed more of an iron component to tone,,still Inwould dig.

Now for the elliptical.
First off Reactivty setting could be dialed to level 2 and produce morseso the no irony sounding tone similar to round HF coil-- with freqs and programs/ settings where dime was detected.

Hot program.
Using 14.4khz good luck finding this dime!!!
Using 28.8 kHz sounded nice,, weak though,,would dig.
Uaing 54khz sounded ok, broader signal,,would dig.

Deep program.
Using 14.4khz only signal I got, I would rate because I knew the dime was down there,,,would likely never dig.
Using 28.8khz nice signal, a tad more coil height (not much).
Didn't try 74khz.

Deus fast
Using 14.4khz good luck finding this dime!!
Using 28.8khz a shady signal, person better be on their game to hear this one and dig.

GM power
Using 14.4khz good luck finding this dime!!
Uaing 28.8khz a good signal I would rate a signal value wise in between signal achieved. using hot program and deep program.

These test more or less mirror a lot of what I saw when Imcompared coils over some zinc washers that have been buried since 1992/1994.

Relic hunters, maybe even coin hunters who have ground as minerlized or even moreso,,,Round HF coil and elliptical seems to have some advantage.
Depth.

Now there are also some separation advantages as well.

Seems in my area using the 14.4khz on the HF coils, would is it good for?
Certainly not depth, or separation.

Maybe it might make a good depth meter.
Reckon.
Get a signal with no iron tone using higher freqs, toggle to 14.4khz and no signal.. Yep that might tell me some thing.

In my soil it seems the round HF coil by the strength of signal I heard today comparing does have some depth advantage.

In taller grass round HF coil definitely has advantage for depth moreso.

The elliptical coil,,it just might be when you consider all things (higher mineral, depth, separation) using Deus v4 platform to be the overall most versatile setup made to date.
Too bad on the ID side of the house though.
But it will give tone.
Better than nothing.

Wish Inwould have had my deep tech warrior with me.
I would tried it too.
Maybe another day.

Cheers