Gold Hawg: 1715 Fleet Find

[mad4wrecks]

Laura:



Tom

ps. Sending you a "care package" early next week.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A Handbook of Civil War Bullets and Cartridges - Grab it through Amazon!

[elle]

Sorry about a terrible sketch, but this may be a possibility how a gold cup rested in the pelican.
I tend to think the cup had a lid to easily grab and lift out.

Looking at the pelican from the front, imagine the cross being situated right behind a red ruby where the
hole is.
It would be a beautiful sight as if a drop of Christ's blood is on the cross.
Just a theory, but who knows?

 

[elle]

I just wanted to say thanks to EVERYONE that contributed...we all brainstormed together and helped each other.
And that includes you, Tom, because you were the one who first thought about the religious eagle of St. John.
Darren and Bigcypresshunter, you guys are gifted as history hunters! I hope we are at least 80% right on our theory!

Ok...since we are on the topic of the Eucharist, I do have such a great story to share, if anyone is interested in reading.

http://www.acfp2000.com/Miracles/eucharistic.html
In the city of Lanciano, Italy, around the year 700, there was a priest of the order of St. Basil who was not strong in his faith. He was plagued by a doubt as to whether the consecrated Host was truly the Body of Christ, and the consecrated wine truly His Blood.
One morning, as he was celebrating Mass, he saw the Bread change into Flesh and the wine into Blood.

Today twelve centuries after the miraculous occurrence it remains intact, a sustained miracle! Local Church and Vatican official have authenticated the Eucharistic miracle on many occasions since the middle ages.
Upon a superficial examination, the Host of Flesh, which is still in one piece and has retained the dimensions of the original "Large Host", has a fibrous appearance and a brown color, which becomes light-reddish if one places a light in the back of the Ostensorium.
The blood, contained in the chalice, has an earthly color, inclined toward the yellow of ocher, and consists of five coagulated globules. Each of the parts is uneven in shape and size, and when weighed together, the total weight is equal to that of each piece.
The actual spot of the miracle is located beneath the present day tabernacle of the Church of St. Francis. The Miracle Itself is preserved in the second tabernacle, which is found in the high altar. The Host, now changed to Flesh, is contained in a silver Monstrance. The wine, now changed to Blood, is contained in a crystal chalice.

Scientific Studies
A rigorous scientific analysis was performed in 1970-71 by Professor Dr. Odorardo, University Professor in anatomy and pathological histology and in chemistry and clinical microscopy, Head Physician of the United Hospitals of Arezzo. Prof. Linoli was assisted by Prof. Dr. Ruggero Bertelli, a Professor Emeritus of anatomy at the University of Siena.
The research done on the fragments of the Blood and the Flesh yielded the following results:
• The Blood of the Eucharistic Miracle is real blood and the Flesh is real flesh.
• The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the myocardium (heart wall).
• The Blood and the Flesh belong to the human species.
• The blood type is identical in the Blood and in the Flesh, type AB.
• The proteins in the blood are in the same proportions as those found in normal fresh blood.
• There is no trace whatsoever of any materials or agents used for preservation of flesh or blood.

 

[JupiterDude]

WOW! Some people are out of touch.

 

[rgecy]

It appears to have been hanging by three points. Both wings and the top of the head.

It might have been actually hanging at the time of sinking, and may be the reason the other wing was not in the same area. It may have broke loose during the storm or wrecking and the chain and wing are somewhere together! Maybe closer to shore.

Great work everyone.

Robert

 

[JohninCT]

If the wing and chain were still attached when the mian body broke off, then it possibly was still attached to the wood and could have stayed that way and been picked up on the beach or dunes by the shipwrecked survivors who salvaged what they could.If so then it will never be found, as it went back to Spain and was likely melted.

 

[DCMatt]

You guys are amazing with your knowledge and research.

I found this in Google Books in a 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia:
____________________________________________________________________________
The treatise begins with a description of the famous nine altars (ed. Surtees Soc., p. 7) and of the choir and high altar. The Blessed Sacrament was reserved in a silver pelican hung over the High Altar. It should be noted that a pelican in her piety was assumed as his arms by Richard Fox (Bishop of Durham, 1494-1502)
____________________________________________________________________________
DCMatt

 

[elle]

Thanks Matt!

I am pretty sure the pelican was designated for a cathedral or special chapel in Spain.
The Spanish chaplain had his own church supplies that he carried on the ship.
He was to set up his alter daily using the ornaments and items from his own private box.
Sometimes mass was said twice a day, besides prayer readings, and not all the time was the alter
set up in the same location because of the many events happening on deck.
The padre's supplies included things like a crucifix, vademecum, bell, host box, missal, amice, cincture,
oil stock, candleholder, chalice, the list goes on and on. One thing he did possess was a small pyx.
His duty also was to administer to the sick and dying, so having a pyx on him was a necessity.
Here is a picture of one from 1650 that was probably similar to what the chaplain carried while sailing:

http://www.rubylane.com/item/286086-1394/MAGNIFICENT-Bulgarian-Church-Silver-Traveling

Bonnie's pelican is so elaborate and looks like it is designed by one of the best artists,
so one wonders if it was created for a royal chapel or for one of the chapels within a huge cathedral.
The wing probably snapped off as the cargo plunged and hit the reef, tearing up in the water in all directions.

 

[Red_desert]

Nice day indeed Bonnie, you and your mom! Wow I had to stop and get out the magazine article/photos of the Staffordshire hoard, to see how the ornate gold artifact designs compare with your find...some pieces are similar as to artistic design quality.

 

[rgecy]

Even if it was not hung, the chain rings are attached and would seem likely that a gold chain would have been made as well for such an ornate piece. Typically, the chain would be the weaker link and would explain why it broke right at the link.

I hope it is truly near by. Think of the value a piece like this will bring if complete.

Robert

 

[dfx willy]

that is a find!! way cool willy

 

[divermark]

In A church near where I live in wales (UK) there is a golden pelican:

http://medieval-wales.com/site_30_llanrhaedr_yng_nghinmeirch_church.html

This research is also interesting:

http://donna.hrynkiw.net/sca/pelican/index.html

 

[diverlynn]

I have been following this great find.
My friend in Lima is the historian in Peru. He was very impressed in your find. He sent me this to share, hope it can shead some light.

diverlynn

 

[ScubaDude]

The Pelican arrived with the King James Bible in 1611. The phoenix is from Egyptian mythology. The Pelican was also the name of Sir Francis Drake's boat prior to him renaming it the Golden Hind.

 

[Darren in NC]

Great observation, ScubaDude. I hadn't seen that before. I also noted that Lynn's silver bird had an Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) on the compartment door. So did your picture of the KJV Bible page. It would appear that her bird (not convinced it's a pelican yet) was indeed used for religious purposes. The Agnus Dei was found numerous times in the catacombs where the persecuted Christians hid.

 

[rgecy]

I would say the Pelican in Piety is pretty clear, but we each have our opinions. Here are my findings to support. The fact that the bird appears to be pecking at a spot on its chest as shown in this picture. I dont think this design would have been chosen if it were not. They would have carved feathers like the rest of the design if it was not a pelican in piety.

Also I found one that was made in Spain in the 1500's that is hanging by three gold chains and has a "simulated" ruby in the body. So its very possible the center contained a jem of some sorts. Or maybe it held the baby pelicans, which would be pretty cool. But something to represent the offering would be my guess.

Robert

 

[rgecy]

Also found this one with the ruby. This is from the 1800's and of course is more ornate.

Robert

 

[Darren in NC]

Robert, I have no doubt that Bonnie's find and the examples you gave are indeed a Pelican in Piety. What I was referring to was Lynn's silver condor she posted.

 

[ScubaDude]

(I found an expanded explanation)

Its representative of the Savior, which is almost universally supposed to be derived from the common belief that the pelican feeds her young with her blood, as the Savior shed his blood for mankind; and hence the bird is always represented as sitting on her nest, and surrounded by her brood of young ones, who are dipping their bills into a wound in their mother's breast. But this is not the exact idea of the symbolism, which really refers to the resurrection. In an ancient Bestiarium, or Natural History, in the Royal Library at Brussels, cited by Larwood and Hotten in a recent work on the History of Signboards, this statement is made: "The pelican is very fond of his young ones, and when they are born and begin to grow, they rebel in their nest against their parent, and strike him with their wings flying about him, and beat him so much till they wound him in his eyes. Then the father strikes and kills them. And the mother is of such a nature that she comes back to the nest on the third day, and sits down upon her dead young ones, and opens her side with her bill and pours her blood over them, and so resuscitates them from death; for the young ones, by their instinct, receive the blood as soon as it comes out of the mother, and drink it." Dr. Mackey believed the true theory of the pelican is, that by restoring her young ones to life by her blood, she symbolizes the resurrection. The old symbologists said, that the male pelican, who destroyed his young, represents the serpent, or evil principle, which brought death unto the world; while the mother, who resuscitates them, is the representative of the Son of Man of whom it is declared, "except ye drink of His blood, ye have no life in you."

Walt's Tattoo http://www.saintbrendansceltic.org/pelican-symbol.html has a lengthier version:

 

[rgecy]

Sorry Darren, didn't read the whole post!

Brad, interesting to see we are finding research material from "Walt's Tatoos!"

I am amazed at this piece and will certainly look forward to hearing what the scholars have to say. I think the value will surpass what we have predicted here.

Robert