Fun with G.E.

[Loke]

Beautiful Border Collie that you live with LOke. Besides being extremely intelligent, They are Cholla magnets.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Nah - would even take that critter into cholla-country!
However, my first ever forage into the Superstitions - my daughter (who lived just outside of Phoenix at the time) persuaded me to take along her German Shepherd - bad idea!! That critter was more than a cholla-magnet - they friggin' _jumped_ on her from 2 feet away (OK, slightly exaggerated, but not much). That was my first and decidedly last time I bring a dog into that country! (unless it has been cholla-trained)

 

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[pippinwhitepaws]

i did the superstitions with a sheltie...not too bad on the cholla...but going down to the river...those dang stickers...look like oblong pods, with nasty barbs....not good to get some in a long haired doggin.

 

[cactusjumper]

Juno made many trips into the Supe's with me, as well as other trips into the Calif. desert.





After his first few encounters with cholla, he avoided further contact. On the other hand, he was a pretty smart dog.

Take care,

Joe

 

[393stroker]

That`s a good lookin` uh mm dog you got there.

 

[Hal Croves]

Someo,
Hope that you are well. I just wanted to comment on GE as a research tool. While there is no substitute for boots on the ground GE in the right hands is a huge advantage. But you are correct in that it has its limits. I fly over and through the Wilderness area every night on my desktop. I find new things to look at every flight and make note of those finds... whatever they may be.
In fact, using GE to help located the view of Weavers drawn by Jacob on his death cot has lead to some interesting finds. I have a view that matches not just the drawing but Jacobs last instructions as well. Someone with your experience should be able to deduce the exact location from this GE image. My point being that any great tool is useless unless in willing and capable hands. My view is obviously no substitute for an actuall photo, but I think that it is quite amazing for what it is (a rendering) and I plan on using it on my next hike.

Do you think you could locate the exact spot if I were to post the rendering alone? If so, that would make GE an effective tool for research? Yes?

 

[Somero]

Morning Hal

Hope the cooler weather is not bothering you as much as me.

I agree, G.E. is a good tool when used properly. Yes it is relatively easy to match a G.E. image posted so long as you have some identifiable landmarks, even better with some type of compass relation or best of all coordinates. However matching a real picture with no substantial landmarks or general knowledge of where the picture was taken can be more difficult.

My main concern is for those that rely almost entirely on G.E. as a valid interpretation of what they are viewing and see landmarks that are completely G.E. generated, i.e. priest image on the side of a large mountain. In reality the terrain is very different from G.E. What may look like a line of rocks could actually be a 100' cliff. So I am not trying to dissuade anybody from looking or using G.E. but I would like them to be aware of the reality of the terrain before they venture out into the Superstitions. For those that do "put boots on the ground" IMO the scenery alone is worth the effort.

 

[Hal Croves]

The cold keeps the insect population at a level I can live with. We are overrun here with ticks and mosquitoes in the warm months. This is my time to be outside so I am content. I will say that one of the coldest nights I ever experienced was at the camp site in Peter's. I was warned that the wind would pick up around three in the morning but I dismissed it and laid in the open. By 4 I was too cold to put on another layer and just laid there shaking until the sun came up. I think that Kurt and his circle of friends had a good laugh over that story. You can't hide from the wind.

Regarding GE. It helps to keep the relationship alive. That is about it. I feel something for the Superstions. Not just thoughts of gold, but of history and beauty and discovery and if lucky friendship. I am hoping to be there before March. One site I want to see is my placement of jacob's drawing. I never spent much time on the Dutchman's story... But recently I traced the origional story and it by chance falls on a corresponding symbol on my placement of the stone map. That was a little unnerving. It's all just theory. But I will post the view and would appreciate your thoughts.

One last thing that might explain my need to encourage the use of GE by everyone... I have recently learned that there is indeed a group of people out there that have and perhaps continue to mislead and to alter historical fact. I am not writing about you so please do not read it that way.
Their behavior is shameful... so, I encourage everyone to check and recheck the facts.

Truth it seems is harder to find than gold in the Superstions.

 

[Somero]

Hal

Hopefully you can get here before March, after March I think the gnat population goes crazy, annoying little critters. As for the wind, I have a love hate relationship, it loves to annoy the heck out of me and I hate it when it blows. Not sure which is worse, wind in the summer or the winter, either a hair dryer blowing on you or trying to keep it from penetrating the layers and numbing the fingers, miserable all around.

You can pm me the image or an email and go that route if you like.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal

Hopefully you can get here before March, after March I think the gnat population goes crazy, annoying little critters. As for the wind, I have a love hate relationship, it loves to annoy the heck out of me and I hate it when it blows. Not sure which is worse, wind in the summer or the winter, either a hair dryer blowing on you or trying to keep it from penetrating the layers and numbing the fingers, miserable all around.

You can pm me the image or an email and go that route if you like.

Here is the rendering from GE based on a photo of Jacob's sketch... (I believe it may actually be the original).
By chance (?) this view is from the "F" symbol on the stone maps. F being the symbol for final instruction. Might just be coincidence. OK. Now tell me where this view is from. Then look at that tributary canyon. Many of the original clues point to this location. But one needs the original, unmolested clues... or as close as possible.

Remember this. The cave sits across the canyon from the mine/tunnel. The sun shines into the mouth of the cave until 4, then it is moves out of range. That means that the cave is on a south-western exposure, and it is under a natural ledge. So, the mine/tunnel has a generally northern exposure. This eliminates quite a bit of search area.

My rendering (from the location) fits all these clues and a few more.
The death-bed drawing (if real) is the key. Look at it this way. You are standing above the cave, looking out towards Weavers. Below the canyon floor.

View attachment 912801

 

[Somero]

I'm guessing this is the general area.

 

[Hal Croves]

The death cot drawing was meant to represent a view of Weaver as seen from ABOVE the cave. Look at the drawing. This is high up in a canyon that fits the description. Down below the canyon floor. He could see the military trail, but he could not be seen.

View attachment 913166
View From Above the cave.

​

View attachment 913176
View from the cave.. proposed location.

View attachment 913222

​

This is only my understanding of the death cot drawing. I can not say with certainty that it was done by the Dutchman, but I am working on the "idea" that it is authentic.

Basically there are four structures in the drawing. Three of these structures have what I see as "secondary" lines. These lines are added to "primary" lines to reinforce an idea.. that being the idea of dimension. In this case a mountain. Jacob, struggling to be understood, wanted Rhiney to be able to distinguish between dimension (mountains marked with arrows) and what I consider to be flat or canyon bottom (circled in blue). Unfortunately the canyon floor (river beds and trails) would be much changed today, but it is easy to see the structure circled in blue as being exactly that… lines of the canyon floor.

Without this drawing I doubt that anyone could find the mine using the surviving clues. Clues that match countless locations in the Superstitions.

But this drawing narrows things down quite a bit when paired with the original clues. If you can find them.

 

[sgtfda]

More than one needle in those hills

 

[markmar]

Here is the rendering from GE based on a photo of Jacob's sketch... (I believe it may actually be the original).
By chance (?) this view is from the "F" symbol on the stone maps. F being the symbol for final instruction. Might just be coincidence. OK. Now tell me where this view is from. Then look at that tributary canyon. Many of the original clues point to this location. But one needs the original, unmolested clues... or as close as possible.

Remember this. The cave sits across the canyon from the mine/tunnel. The sun shines into the mouth of the cave until 4, then it is moves out of range. That means that the cave is on a south-western exposure, and it is under a natural ledge. So, the mine/tunnel has a generally northern exposure. This eliminates quite a bit of search area.

My rendering (from the location) fits all these clues and a few more.
The death-bed drawing (if real) is the key. Look at it this way. You are standing above the cave, looking out towards Weavers. Below the canyon floor.

View attachment 912801

Hal

You are right . Waltz said about the Indian Cave in the Squaw Canyon box . This is the view of the Waltz sketch and the Perfil map . This is what I have write all this time . I am glad because you have the same thoughts with me . You are in the right way . Keep searching .

http://hikearizona.com/photo.php?ZIP=127892

 

[Hal Croves]

Marius,
Close however that can not be the same cave. If you had the original clues you would know that the cave was also concealed by the Dutchman. You are very close to it... But not quite.
The location that I am focused on has some unique geological features that seem to confirm the clues. But you are In the right neighborhood.

 

[somehiker]

Hal:

Cave, tunnel, and pit.
Cave with a two room roofless house inside it. Across canyon or ravine from mine.
Tunnel which Waltz was said to have (partly ?) concealed with a rock wall.
Pit above tunnel that Waltz claimed to have covered with layers of ironwood logs, then leveled with rocks and dirt.

Regards:SH.

 

[roadrunner]

None of those pics or GE images looks the same as his drawing.
Little finger is on right and plainly visible as if that is the exact picture to look for.
Other wise it would just be a needle, and the finger would not be there.
Why would he put the finger on the right if it was not important.

 

[somehiker]

Anyone been to the "pit mine" yet ??
Does the sketch match any view from there ?
If it doesn't match, then the sketch must be a phony, right ?
Personally, I think the sketch may have been a view from one of the caches, since that is what JW wanted his friends to find.

Regards:SH.

 

[Hal Croves]

Obviously there has evolved several camps of thought. The cave with two rooms is, I believe, not one of Walzer's clues. The cave is NOT directly opposite the tunnel, but the TRAIL to the cave is. That trail leads UP the canyon to a NATURAL cave... Protected by an overhanging ledge.

"He made the sketch to illustrate how the needle would appear from a position above the cave... not the mine".

Little doubt that it is Weavers if you follow the trio after the Dutchman's death.

 

[Hal Croves]

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion. In fact it does look like the drawing. The problem is that so much looks like the drawing the options are endless. But eventually one needs to drop anchor and start looking. It is as good a place as any.

 

[sgtfda]

From the Pitt there is a view like that drawing of the needle. A stone house ruin below the Pitt and a cave with a 2 room Indian ruin down the valley + many more I'm not getting into