Found today
- Thread starter tonykidd
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Everyone PLEASE take time to read this! All of us are on this forum for a common interest. We all are fascinated with a unique culture that is long gone and our only hope is to somehow be a part of it. We hunt for countless hours and most of the time with little to nothing to show for it. We study,read,observe and communicate with others with the same interest, in hopes of gaining even more knowledge in order to find that all so elusive Find Of A Lifetime. Even when we find the best artifact we have ever found,we return to the cycle once more and are not satisfied with the beautiful specimen that is not really ours to begin with (and so goes the saying - We are given an inch,but we want a mile). For every single person on this site, you may have a vault full of artifacts - but you know what - They do not belong to you. They have been bestowed to you from the maker of all things with the hopes that you will appreciate his gifts. From what i have gathered since being on this site(ALL people here genuinely love these gifts - (And this includes all the people who do not care for me or my posted artifacts) and that makes me smile because love is the most important GIFT in this world! PERIOD! Far more valuable than ARROWHEADS! One thing that i do know with certainty is - Degrading,slandering,belittling someone here is wrong. Once again, there will be untrue items posted on this forum - Whether it be intentional or with all believing from said person that they are in fact genuine. It is not our duty to degrade them in such a way as to make them feel less of a person or less passionate about their endeavors than ours. Now, with that said,if a person asks for advice then that opens up pro and con dialogue, but still not to the point of degrading them to everyone on this page. I would like to take this opportunity to see if I PERSONALLY can get a few of MY CRITICS AND I TO BURY THE HATCHET(Cool Cliche). We may not always agree, but we should be able to carry on conversation and dialogue without hurtful words and actions. No one knows all but one - And he would be saddened that we can not solve our differences in a kind and respectful way. If you would like to start fresh with me, and you know who you are - then please like this post. I will start it off saying that i am personally sorry for any unkind words or remarks that i have made to anyone on this site, regardless if you like this post or not. God bless and be kind to each other! Mogi
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Tpmetal
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Yeah my bad, guess I woke up on the wrong side of the bed. My statement was a bit much but I just have trouble with people responding to others finds in a demeaning way. Then I get all eye for an eye haha. Still stand by my statement though. No reason for those two to act like that.
Buddy, i was on the same team right there with ya! Isn't it wonderful how he forgives? All we have to do is ask! Blessings! Mogi
joshuaream
Silver Member
Yes, those little ones are the common India made examples. The one you separated out is just the most blaring example. The big ones are made a little bit differently, but check the material and flaking compared to some of the common points from your area, and you'll see the difference.
What that means, I don't know. I figured you had a hunting partner who was playing a joke on you. If not that is a perplexing situation.
Just search for Bulk Arrowhead on ebay and you'll see thousands of them for sale.
Here is a link to the companies in India that sell them. The little ones cost $0.05 a piece or less (a nickle), 8" ones cost a $1.00, you can bargain and get better deals.
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/arrowheads-india.html
Most of them come from an area called Khambhat, Gujarat state. That area has been knapping stone bead blanks for thousands of years, and then drilling them on highspeed foot pump drills. They still make beads like that from the local colorful stone, and along the way they started makeing "Navajo" points that used to be sold in truckstops and trinquet shops out west. There are scientific papers and studies on the stone works there, how they make pieces, etc.
You might need a password to see this paper, but here is one.
https://www.academia.edu/8418632/Stone_Knapping_Khambhat_India_a_Unique_Opportunity
Here is a picture of a guy in the paper knapping rocks. It's basically a lot of small villages where families make these things at home, and then sell them to middlemen who take them to market. Some people knap the blanks, some drill them, some finish them.
unclemac
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TPmetal, please post by our rules, no insulting of members allowed. Members can disagree but they can not throw insults just because they do not like someone's opinion on an artifact.
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Tony - you started the thread asking the folks here what 'style' these points were. 95+% of the people here believe they're modern repro's and not even close to ancient. We didn't come find you, you came here and asked. Doesn't mean we're right or you're wrong but it fulfills the purpose of your visit here. I don't understand why you feel the need to defend the pieces. You asked for opinions and seem upset or disappointed by the feedback. Salting happens and really isn't that uncommon. I'm personally not at all questioning whether you found them. I wish you the best and hope you have many great finds ahead.
ChrisWhewell
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Exactly, its like, some experts have extremely closed minds. I had some exchanges with a meteorite "expert" who said if a meteorite didn't have nickel in it, its not a meteorite. What a buffoon, because if true his statement would mean that every piece of space debri out there in the entire universe absolutely must have nickel in it. To any sane person, that is absurd !! So much for "experts"
The Grim Reaper
Gold Member
I have no problem with mogi or with Tony as far as not liking them or to question their character. They both seem like very nice guys that have the same passion for the hobby we all do. The problem I do have though is they refuse to listen to people with years and years of experience. Are we experts, in some fields I would say we could be considered that, but personally I have never considered myself one. I am very knowledgeable in the Ft Ancient culture and actually have people contact me all the time for opinions on pieces they have found. I have hunted/collected for 51 years and I know others like Joshua, Twitch, quito, Buckleberry, etc have hunted most of their lives too. We know artifacts. We have studied them for years and I know a modern Point when I see one.
Maybe I come on to strong, but I don't sugar coat anything. I tell you what I think it is or what I believe it isn't and I have a very good track record on my assessments. Just like this post, I said they where modern and was told I was an idiot more or less. Now the OP may finally be seeing that they are and were most likely salted into his spot. The Thunderbird was what broke the camels back. Those are THE most common fakes on the market. You can buy them in practically every gift shop near the reservations and they are all over Ebay.
Those of us telling you they are not authentic ancient pieces are only trying to help you learn so you don't get taken. Mogi for example has numerous obvious modern pieces but refuses to listen to anyone except the ones he gets them from. We a seller does his own COA's a giant red flag should jump out from somewhere and smacked you across the back of the head to get your attention.
I guess I'll just try to steer clear of these posts from now on and my apologies if I came across to strong. I just have a strong belief in keeping repros off the market because they almost always end up with a back story, a COA, and are then sold to unsuspecting collectors.
Happy hunting everyone!!
Maybe I come on to strong, but I don't sugar coat anything. I tell you what I think it is or what I believe it isn't and I have a very good track record on my assessments. Just like this post, I said they where modern and was told I was an idiot more or less. Now the OP may finally be seeing that they are and were most likely salted into his spot. The Thunderbird was what broke the camels back. Those are THE most common fakes on the market. You can buy them in practically every gift shop near the reservations and they are all over Ebay.
Those of us telling you they are not authentic ancient pieces are only trying to help you learn so you don't get taken. Mogi for example has numerous obvious modern pieces but refuses to listen to anyone except the ones he gets them from. We a seller does his own COA's a giant red flag should jump out from somewhere and smacked you across the back of the head to get your attention.
I guess I'll just try to steer clear of these posts from now on and my apologies if I came across to strong. I just have a strong belief in keeping repros off the market because they almost always end up with a back story, a COA, and are then sold to unsuspecting collectors.
Happy hunting everyone!!
Mogi, this is why people are skeptical. From CrazyCrow.com:
$2.50 ea.
$3.25 ea.
$43.5~$87 (5" ~ 10")
Keep in mind I'm not judging one way or another; just providing information to show you why some forumeers are hard to convince.
Cheers,
--ghp
$2.50 ea.
$3.25 ea.
$43.5~$87 (5" ~ 10")
Keep in mind I'm not judging one way or another; just providing information to show you why some forumeers are hard to convince.
Cheers,
--ghp
Doing some searching around on sites looking for information on concerns around fakes. Thought this was a good quick read from another's perspective and his experience....
http://www.arrowheads.com/authentication/601-fakes-and-frauds
Also this replica site...
https://www.nature-watch.com/native-american-indian-arrowheads-replicas-p-58.html
https://www.smkw.com/chipped-flint-eccentric-arrowheads-thunderbird
http://www.arrowheads.com/authentication/601-fakes-and-frauds
Also this replica site...
https://www.nature-watch.com/native-american-indian-arrowheads-replicas-p-58.html
https://www.smkw.com/chipped-flint-eccentric-arrowheads-thunderbird
The Grim Reaper
Gold Member
Did you retrieve this piece yet? I would like to see this if possible. Does it have legs on it?
Charl
Silver Member
Well, you're using some flawed logic here. First of all, I've collected meteorites for 34 years, and am a member in good standing in the meteorite collecting community. Greater then 95% of all meteorites contain nickle-iron metal. This includes all iron meteorites and all ordinary chondrites, which are the most common stony meteorites. The exceptions are planetary meteorites, those that originate from the moon and from Mars, in other words. Planetary meteorites contain no metal. The flaw in logic is in your final statement. We are only talking about meteorites that originate within our own solar system(most originate from within the asteroid belt). In other words, we are not talking about the "entire universe", as you mistakenly assume. So, with but few exceptions(there are less then 100 named lunar or Martian meteorites), meteorites do contain nickle-iron, and in ratios not found in terrestrial rocks.
In other words, your mistake was assuming that what was is in fact true of meteorites originating in our solar system, applies throughout the universe. But why would you even make such an assumption in the first place?? That is what is known as flawed logic, flawed reasoning. All known meteorites originate from within our solar system. We have no samples from outside our own solar system! There is simply no logical reason to take the facts we know to be true of meteorites, and extend those conclusions to the entire universe. Right now, the search for extra-solar planetary bodies is well underway, and we can learn something about such bodies via spectral analysis, etc. But you jumped to conclusions that you really had no justification jumping to. Therefore, I doubt the person you spoke to was a buffoon at all. Sounds like he was actually trying to educate you, and you decided you knew better. You didn't.
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1320
Silver Member
This forum needs a good flushing....
T.C.
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I'm not trying to hijack this thread, but I would like an opinion type and if authentic. I found this back in 1993 in Klamath County, Or. I always thank my wife for it, because she walked right by it! This was posted on the old PRO's board and was immediately claimed to be fake by one individual....kinda deflated my ego. Go ahead and give me your opinions, you won't hurt my feelings.....thanks! It's obsidian....it's 4 3/8" x 7/8".
1320
Silver Member
You should start a new thread....
joshuaream
Silver Member
TC, might be better to start another thread, but since it's here...
That type of exotic flaking (I never know if it's called parallel oblique or transverse oblique) would be wrong on most point types from most areas, but it fits a couple of types in your neck of the woods from what I have seen in the Great Basin. I don't see why it would automatically be called fake.
Prosbb was Texas-centric, and that point would look odd to any local collector who hadn't seen material from out your way. And that was kind of the wild west of forums at times, opinions were freely given on pretty much anything.
That type of exotic flaking (I never know if it's called parallel oblique or transverse oblique) would be wrong on most point types from most areas, but it fits a couple of types in your neck of the woods from what I have seen in the Great Basin. I don't see why it would automatically be called fake.
Prosbb was Texas-centric, and that point would look odd to any local collector who hadn't seen material from out your way. And that was kind of the wild west of forums at times, opinions were freely given on pretty much anything.
Wyoming Valley Relics
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I remember when i was a kid and my dad would take me hunting. Sometimes i would find big chunks of flint (or glass) and if i wasn't finding anything else I would start working them into points. When i was done i would throw everything into the nearby creek. Didn't think much of it then but I feel bad now for those who found my works. I doubt thats what happened here but its proof that salting happens. Anyway, IMO the flaking pattern is consistent with modern repos.
I'm sorry some of you think that forum members with centuries of combined hunting, researching, and knowledge are being "snobs" . I believe we all do this hobby for the same reason, we love history. All the answers you don't like are because of that love. To see history misrepresented in this way is a stab in all our hearts and to see this same thing over and over again throughout the years it begins to jade our responses . You very well my have found those points ,and if so it must be hard to hear this but everything about them screams fake.
I'm sorry some of you think that forum members with centuries of combined hunting, researching, and knowledge are being "snobs" . I believe we all do this hobby for the same reason, we love history. All the answers you don't like are because of that love. To see history misrepresented in this way is a stab in all our hearts and to see this same thing over and over again throughout the years it begins to jade our responses . You very well my have found those points ,and if so it must be hard to hear this but everything about them screams fake.
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