Found today

[tonykidd]

I'm trying to identify this piece. Found today in Alabama on a site that has been dated to 5000+ B.P.
Maybe St. Charles Dovetail? It is 9 1/2" long. The other points were found a few hundred yards away. I just added them in the picture because I like them.
Any ideas?

 

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[Buckleberry]

Most likely the long point is a grave good. We left them but will go back and dig them out by thin slicing and brushing.

So now you're digging graves to find repros?, it would be funny if it wasn't completely illegal.

 

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[tonykidd]

Maybe you can tell me what it is. I called it a "thunderbird" because it looks like an eagle, but not like the ones I found on a web search. This one is nowhere near as intricate or detailed. The bird motif is obviously a big deal at this site, since we have found bird effigies including a stone birds-head pipe, a hawk effigy and other polished stone effigies. This is the thing I called a thunderbird:

 

[tonykidd]

We have no idea, but we're not digging up graves, I can assure you.

 

[tonykidd]

This is what the bowl looks like from the side of the bank. The bank is approximately 12" high, so it's more of a shelf than a bank.

 

[Tpmetal]

Grim reaper and buckleberry seem to be quite a bunch of angry hunters. Lighten up guys, he has no reason to lie and you guys really don't have any idea what you are talking about. Neither of you are experts in anything. Even if you were an expert you Couldn't tell anything certain by a photograph. I'll tell you right now tonykidd, I live in Iroquois territory and a few museums do have large points found around here. They are not fake and do exist, and are quite rare found whole. you have an awesome site there don't let these angry Keyboard warriors get mad your out doing all the work having fun. Just ignore them and don't respond, let them flap their mouths at the wind just like the dogs they are acting like.

 

[tonykidd]

According to them, your museums have obviously been fooled by fakes. Nobody knows the extent of trade that these Indians engaged in. The copper we found at Lake Jackson years ago was tested and found to be from the Great Lakes area. From Florida that's quite a hike. Thanks for your comments.

 

[mogi]

Grim reaper and buckleberry seem to be quite a bunch of angry twats. Lighten up guys, he has no reason to lie and you guys really don't have any idea what you are talking about. Neither of you are experts in anything. Even if you were an expert you Couldn't tell anything certain by a photograph. I'll tell you right now tonykidd, I live in Iroquois territory and a few museums do have large points found around here. They are not fake and do exist, and are quite rare found whole. you have an awesome site there don't let these angry Keyboard warriors get mad your out doing all the work having fun. Just ignore them and don't respond, let them flap their mouths at the wind just like the dogs they are acting like.

LOVE,LOVE,LOVE!!!!! Another kind person that is tired of armchair authenticators!

 

[Tpmetal]

I'm ok with that.

 

[joshuaream]

If you look closely, in the notches you can still see the flint chalk.

Tony, I am sorry that this thread has devolved into questions about your character. I don't know you, but anyone who gets bothered by strangers questioning their character usually has some. The same goes with what I posted in Mogi's thread.

Admitting that I don't know you, I'll admit that I do know a bit about relics. What you are seeing in the notches isn't flint chalk, it's freshly scuffed flint from the drill marks. Here are couple of pictures of some that I have. I bought some just to share with other people when they started showing up several years back, and because I run them through my rock polisher. They polish up pretty well.

Look under a magnifying glass, the back walls of the notches are cut with a drill, not chipped. Workshops turn these things out by the ton, to move so fast they drill the notches and then blow them out creating a very unique notch. Most of the time they take off the drill marks, but you can still see them on some pieces. Ancient Native Americans did not have high speed drills to notch their points. If you'd like some to compare, I'd be happy to mail you a handful of them.

I believe you can click the pictures to see larger versions. Click once it opens in a window, click it again and you can see a bigger picture.

Also look at the materials and compare them to the millions of examples on eBay. Lots of jaspers and low grade agates from India that simply won't fit with the ancient stuff you are finding there.

Some of mine:



Close up of the notches on mine.



Close up of the notches on yours.

 

[mogi]

 

[tonykidd]

You're saying that what I'm seeing are drill marks from a high speed drill?
Here are some close-ups. The first two are from the 9.5" point and the other is from one of the smaller points.

 

[Tpmetal]

Very cool, more giant points! love it'

 

[Charl]

The points in the first photos are clearly reproductions. How they ended up where they did is anybody's guess. This thread could go on for 100 pages, and the points in the first photos will still be reproductions.

 

[tonykidd]

This one is similar, but sure as heck looks real to me. Any guesses?

 

[Tpmetal]

people do realize too that native americans did have their own drills... hand drills, pump drills, hell just taking a sharp piece of flint and turning it with their hand and bam, its a drill. A stick and some sand, bam its a drill. People never give older cultures credit. I realize all point are not real but don't think you can discredit everything by one detail that is hard to distinguish for certain without a microscope.

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

post reported to admin.

 

[quito]

This one is similar, but sure as heck looks real to me. Any guesses?
View attachment 1411320

of course it's real, question is who made it.

 

[quito]

You're saying that what I'm seeing are drill marks from a high speed drill?
Here are some close-ups. The first two are from the 9.5" point and the other is from one of the smaller points.
View attachment 1411317
View attachment 1411318
View attachment 1411319

You have more hinge fractures on one point than I have in frames of points. And yours look pretty fresh.

 

[joshuaream]

This one is similar, but sure as heck looks real to me. Any guesses?
View attachment 1411320

Yes, that is the one that jumps out the most. If you use a loop or strong magnifying glass, the back notches are different. Also note how the drill holes are rounded.
Yes ancient groups had drills, but they didn’t bother to drill notches in points when they could notch them easily.

 

[tonykidd]

So this one is most likely a reproduction as well, or am I misinterpreting your description? I'll have to get a magnifying glass to get the full effect of what you're describing.