Found box marked Navajo Trade Tokens

[foundatreasure]

I stumbled on this site trying to research a treasure find. I hope it is OK to post for other than a find with a metal detector. I own one but haven't used it yet!

Anyway, found a sealed box(at a thrift store) that is marked "Navaho(sic) Trade Tokens\Sterling 1810's 3429B(a catalog number?)

I've never seen such things before & wondered if anyone new anything about them.

Looks like there is about 20 items in the box. It is sealed so I didn't think I should open it as it looks very old itself.

Appears there is a crude Bull, a Donkey, a Kneeling person, 2 heads that look like Native American person on a buffalo head nickel, 3 other (female?) heads that remind me of a liberty dime & about 12 stick people. The 12 stick people have similar hash marks on them like a number sign # but with only 1 vertical line. They are all a little different. On the non-stick people, didn't see any marks.

Any info is appreciated!

 

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[AU24K]

It would make sense that the Navajo were exposed to Mexican Milagros. It may also be true that the Navajos traded with Mexican silver Milagros. The question that I have is did the Navajo actually make Milagros as well? How can you tell the difference? Would the Navajo make kneeling, praying Milagros?

Im like you Bob, I am unfamiliar with Milagros. Im just using a little common sense added with some research.

Here's one of many possible scenarios:

Some "city slicker from back East" was in the Southwest at the end of the 19Th Century. He encountered a Native American with this handful of items. The "slicker" obtained the items and erroneously attributed ALL of them to the Native American. The Native American may have obtained the Mexican(?) pieces in trade for other items and kept them all together with his other "tokens." Much the same way that coinage from different countries were accepted throughout Europe, and in our early history, Spanish coinage was accepted for trading purposes.

Best,
Scott

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

I still believe the box is right for the period & I also think it is intact as far as being original as displayed.

I will concede the same. Like Breezie said, the box and accompaning note is probably authentic.

Here's one of many possible scenarios:

Some "city slicker from back East" was in the Southwest at the end of the 19Th Century. He encountered a Native American with this handful of items. The "slicker" obtained the items and erroneously attributed ALL of them to the Native American. The Native American may have obtained the Mexican(?) pieces in trade for other items and kept them all together with his other "tokens." Best,
Scott

This seems a likely scenario. Navajo was spelled with an H because thats the way is sounds in English like Jose.
The tourist made a crude home made shadow box for display but didnt know any better to properly mount the items.. A museum would not allow the items to bounce around or would have a way to open the box.

This may have value as one of the first times the Navajo sold silver to a tourist. 1890s would be an early tourist period. But how do you prove it?

 

[AU24K]

This may have value as one of the first times the Navajo sold silver to a tourist. 1890s would be an early tourist period. But how do you prove it?

Ummm...CSI Miami? Ink analysis, paper analysis, shellac analysis...

Possibly a knowledgeable museum curator in the Southwest area?

Best,
Scott

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Attached is a link to one of the better sites regarding Navajo silversmithing. But most interesting is the examples it shows of sandstone molds. I would have posted pictures of the molds here but the site has a block that prevents that.

Link: http://www.925-1000.com/aNavajoSmiths.html#xviii

Below are a couple of pictures from other sites. The first one I just love, and shows a Navajo silversmith at work.

The second picture is an example of a contempoary Navajo charm/pendant, and is typical of the type of thing they would make. Native American craftsmen are big on promoting their own heritage, and almost always use designs to support that. Whereas the milagros seem to have no heritage connection whatsoever. Notice the chain loop is positioned so the item would lay flat when worn as a neckles piece. The Navajo were true craftsmen and thought of everything.

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I realize this thread is about identifying foundatreasure's items and not about my personal interest in the subject. But as I collect southwest souvenirs and memorbilia, I didn't think anyone would mind my sharing the following item that is the oldest piece in my collection of several hundred items. Plus, it was very possibly made by a Navajo craftsmen, who not only made jewelry and blankets, but other tourist items as well.

Here we have an all wood souvenir tomahawk with Grand Canyon, Ariz. stamped on it. The handle is from a branch and may be willow. The wrapping around the center is some form of fake leather, which has a corroded button of some sort to secure it.

Although I have been collecting this sort of stuff for years, it is extremely hard to date a lot of it, especially very early items. I do know the Grand Canyon became a National Park in 1919, and that once it was established, most if not all tourist related items would have the National Park designation on it, which mine does not. So I feel it is safe to say the tomahawk is pre 1919, but likely not eariler than 1901 when the first tourist trade began to flourish in the area with the introduction of the Grand Canyon Railway that opened in 1901. Of course, wagon trip tourist preceeded this, but I suspect my tomahawk is not that old. Note, fake leather has been around a long time, and was definitely used by Native Americans since it's introduction. Anyhoo, I just thought I'd share. Hope no one minds. If nothing else, it will kill time until the verdic comes in on the milagros. (By the way, I have about 20 different souvenir tomahawks. But most of them are from the 1950s and made of rubber/wood).

SBB

[ Grand Canyon Souvenir Tomahawk - Pre 1919 ]

 

[foundatreasure]

Pretty cool stuff SBB. Where I actually reside is Northern Mi near the Mackinac Bridge in a little town called Cheboygan (not Sheboygan that is in Wi). Much culture with the NA's there. There is a goofy joke about the towns name. Here it is:

Indian Chief's squaw is giving birth to their 6th child. All children so far are male. So the chief exists the teepee & the tribe looks on expectantly for the news of a baby girl. The Chief throws his hands up & says" Ah, she-a-boy-again"! Told you it was goofy! But you won't forget the town.

OK, Vanessa no longer works at Morning Star Galleries. Henry the owner gave me her new email & said "I never saw anything like those" but recommended showing them to Vanessa. So I sent her an email a few minutes ago. The mystery continues...

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

F.A.T. ~

Cool joke.

Wet you whistle with this while you're waiting to hear from Vanessa. Described as follows ... ( It's one of those "last" we were talking about ).

Also ... I'm beginning to think the real focus of your find is going to be the so called "stick people." I've seen lots of the other stuff, but not a single one of those.

Sold For $475

Rare Shoe Form Milagro:

Early 20th century, wood and iron shoe form completely covered in brass and silvered milagros. The milagros vary from pigs and cows to eyes and legs. A fantastic example of the Latin American tradition.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Henry the owner gave me her new email & said "I never saw anything like those" but recommended showing them to Vanessa. So I sent her an email a few minutes ago. The mystery continues...

This is a part that worries me. Argentium said the same thing. They never saw a Mexican Milagro? How will they know if its a Milagro if they never saw one?

- I have lived in Santa Fe for almost 40 years , and have seen all manner of silver
of native manufacture - I have never seen any thing like this trove -

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

If this doesn't give you nightmares, nothing will!

 

[foundatreasure]

It is scary!

I have searched every combination I can think of to describe the stick men/people as charms/tokens as both Navajo & Mexican and still came up empty. Tried vintage, old, antique, ancient plus artifact. Still nothing close to these. Seem to be rare if nothing else. Milagros are plentiful but none like my guys.

Hope Vanessa can shed some light!

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

foundabunchofmilagros ~

If you don't hear from Vanessa anytime soon, you might try this one. Whoever it is, they wrote a book about milagros and should know a thing or two about them. At the bottom of their home page is an e-mail contact. It might pay off.

Link: http://pachamamasantafe.com/Books/index.html

SBB

 

[foundatreasure]

Heard Vanessa today. She said that she couldn't attribute any of the items to the Navajo people. In part she said:

"I took a quick look at your pictures and frankly, I do not think any of those silver tokens are Navajo (Dine). I think your instincts of them being related to Mexican Milagros is much more plausible, especially when you consider that Mexico actually inherited those traditions from Spain, Portugal, and Italy. There are also many other Indo-Asian and European countries that have made silver charms like this--as far north as the former Soviet Union nations, west to Tibet and beyond. Plus, the variety of forms that Milagros/silver tokens take are numerous--all kinds of shapes, figures, body parts, and symbols (I thought I saw a profile of an Anglo/European-looking lady in there)--much dependent on the country and faith of origin. Although some may have a different color tone or shininess, they are most likely silver but I wouldn't rule out pewter or German silver (mostly tin). The only way to be certain is to open the box and test the individual pieces. As for the hash marks, crescent shapes, and circles---these are all pretty basic cold-worked stamps, again, stamps that could be found all over the world and not necessarily specific to the Navajo (let's not forget they inherited those techniques and stamps from the Mexican, via the Spanish, and one step further back, the Moors in some cases). As for the spelling of Navajo as "Navaho"--although rather out-dated, I still hear and see people pronouncing and spelling it in that manner today. I would not necessarily say that the spelling with a "j" is even Spanish related, let alone, be a marker of time period (the spellings are more related to phonetics)."

I still have a couple of lines out for more info. Will here update as info come in. Thanks again to all who have posted. To be continued...

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The 12 stick people have similar hash marks on them like a number sign # but with only 1 vertical line. Any info is appreciated!

Hello foundatreasure. Any updates? I stumbled across this Hopi Indian silver mark reference.. Look to the "Lakon rain mark", bottom left under "Ceremonial - Miscellaneous".

Is this your mark?

http://books.google.com/books?id=XY...A#v=onepage&q=Andrew Saufkie bear paw&f=false


Maybe its not recognized as Dine because its Hopi.

 

[foundatreasure]

Thank you Big Cy!

The marks are incredibly close. I have written to them & will let you know if they respond. It says they use the Lakota sign for Rain as their mark. I have posted side by side pics for comparison.

 

[foundatreasure]

Found some info on "Stick Indians". May not be the same but just thinking! Stick people? Stick Indians? Who knows!

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=82492

"The only time I ever heard of a Stick Indian is when I fished with two Nez Perce brothers. The older brother, about 21, would tease his 14-year-old brother about being taken by a Stick Indian. When I inquired about it, I was told it was basically an Indian thing.
I'm sure they found delight in befuddling the Siapo (a Siapo is a derogatory term for a white person; in the Chinook language it also means the color white).
Anyway, I learned quite a bit about the Stick Indian, thanks to your posts.
Do I believe? Nahhhhhh ... but it's interesting stuff. Every culture has its boogeyman. "

More info on Stick Indians:

http://bfro.net/legends/penutian.htm

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

F.a.T ~

Interesting. How would you describe the position of the arms on the stick people? They appear to be folded across their stomachs and possibly holding something?

As a side note, The Hopi, and I believe the Navajo as well, have a word for white people that is spelled and sounds something like "Bahanna." With a broader translation that means, "People who force their ideas upon others." Which I think came about as a result from the first Spanish explorers they encountered that tried to "force" Christianity and other ideas on them.

Instead of "Bigfoot" you should call your stick people "Littlefeet." Lol

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thank you Big Cy!

The marks are incredibly close. I have written to them & will let you know if they respond. It says they use the Lakota sign for Rain as their mark. I have posted side by side pics for comparison.

OMG where did you find that Sterling rain mark with the circle? Thats incredibly close! There must be a connection. Congratulations it looks as if an ID is near.

 

[foundatreasure]

Ran with your lead Big Cy & found it here:

http://www.southwesttraditions.com/The_Silversmiths/more_Silversmiths/more_silversmiths.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks for keeping us updated on an interesting find.

 

[Lucky13]

Man, id just like to say that is probably one of the koolest thrift store finds ever.