Found box marked Navajo Trade Tokens

[foundatreasure]

I stumbled on this site trying to research a treasure find. I hope it is OK to post for other than a find with a metal detector. I own one but haven't used it yet!

Anyway, found a sealed box(at a thrift store) that is marked "Navaho(sic) Trade Tokens\Sterling 1810's 3429B(a catalog number?)

I've never seen such things before & wondered if anyone new anything about them.

Looks like there is about 20 items in the box. It is sealed so I didn't think I should open it as it looks very old itself.

Appears there is a crude Bull, a Donkey, a Kneeling person, 2 heads that look like Native American person on a buffalo head nickel, 3 other (female?) heads that remind me of a liberty dime & about 12 stick people. The 12 stick people have similar hash marks on them like a number sign # but with only 1 vertical line. They are all a little different. On the non-stick people, didn't see any marks.

Any info is appreciated!

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

To me, it looks like many of the items are not Milagros because the figures are not consistently kneeling. Standing figures suggest more Navajo to me.

No one to date has mentioned the difference in metal appearance. Pure silver tarnishes quickly, and turns nearly black with much age or exposure to light: one of the reasons it is seldom used for jewelry making.

Container looks more to me like a "shadow box."

Yes I guess it could be a display shadow box but there is nothing to suggest it would hang on the wall and the items displayed are not secured for easy viewing which is unusual I think. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_box Some are even upside down.

My first thought was a museum tray with the catalog number. Here are examples of museum dispay boxes but the milagros items are not displayed like I would expect for an enclosed sealed box. And if its a museum tray, it cannot be opened.

 

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[foundatreasure]

The box measures 3 1/8 by 4 5/8". It is 1" thick. The complete box as it sits weighs 3.4 ounces.

The cardboard in the bottom is waffley (is that a word?) & has a sort of honeycomb texture to it. BTW, the card that says "Navaho Trade Tokens" is on the outside of the glass & firmly attached with no loose edges. The catalog number of sorts matches the box lines.

The actual figures each measure about 1" in length. The little buggers are hard to count since they overlap but I am pretty sure there are 21 of them.

On sterling, I was told once to put silverware in an airtight bag/container to keep them from tarnishing. This box seems well sealed but I don't know about airtight. Along those lines I was also told to put sterling jewelry in white tissue paper for the same reason. Is it possible that the cardboard serves the same purpose of preventing oxidation? I guess that is a stretch. One more tidbit, a Catholic nun said that she cleaned & polished her sterling ring with toothpaste. I tried it out & sure enough, it works.

The application of the shellac in real life looks good to me but I always remember that most untouched pictures don't lie. In theory it could be 100+ years old so, it actually looks very nicely done.

At this point I wouldn't open the box myself. It would destroy the provenance if it turned out to be really the age indicated and/or what it may or may not be.

I have to laugh at myself; I thought I would come home with my little box, plug "Navaho Trade Tokens" to eBay or Google & have an instant answer! Thanks again to all who have posted. I will contact Vanessa at Morning Star Gallery as suggested to see if they can shed any light on this.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I apologize if it seems that we are putting down your find. Thanks for answering all of our questions. We sometimes go back and forth but its the end result that counts. I hope Vanessa will be able to help. Thanks for keeping us up to date. Its certainly grabbed our attention.

We used to have a retired Archaeologist on the board (Plebah) but unfortunately he hasnt been heard from lately.

I might add that at this point the box appears most likely to be the age indicated. The big question is are they Mexican or are they Navajo? There appears to be a huge difference in value.

Whatever you decide to do, please dont clean them.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

foundatreasure ~

Notice on the postcard I posted where it says ... Moon "Nezheh" Female.

Please see if that mark is similar or possibly the same as the marks on the stick people that you highlighted earlier.

Thanks,

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

To me, it looks like many of the items are not Milagros because the figures are not consistently kneeling. Standing figures suggest more Navajo to me.

Thats interesting because at least one of the figures is kneeling/praying. That seems to support my mixed theory.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

foundatreasure ~

I realize you are submitting you find for evaluation to an expert, but in the meantime please consider this last observation of mine. Open the link below and then scroll to the bottom where it is titled "A Few Native American Hallmarks." And then look for the following ...

TC (what looks like a crescent moon instead of a full C) Ted Castillo, Navajo

Link: http://www.indianvillage.com/Native-American-Jewelers-Hallmarks.htm#Native

What I am attempting to establish here is, based on everything I have learned about Navajo silversmiths, most (if not all) of the true and better known Navajo craftsmen marked their work in some manner. They were and still are a very proud people, and marking their work appears to have been a very important practice of theirs. Thus my reason for pointing out the so called "C/Crescent Moon" marks that keep jumping out at me. (The list appears to be a true "who's who" of Native American silversmiths). The only thing I can't find is a "proof positive" / "solid" connection between your type of items and the Navajo. About 99.9% of it so far has been neckleses, bracelets, rings, concho belts, etc.

Thanks again,

SBB

 

[foundatreasure]

Thanks SBB! Don't bail out on me now!

I am glad you asked me to take a closer look. I am posting another picture that clearly shows some crescent moons(straight arrows pointed at some). Some others just look like a circle with a blob in the middle but most of the blob part is off center giving it more of the crescent shape. So, if you were putting your stamp on something you made, they would of course be all different depending on where & how hard you struck them. These are little guys to start with. Some of the facial expressions are funny.

Notice the things I called hash marks. All different as seen by the elbow arrows pointing at them. Curiously they have different amount of lines within them kinda like hash marks. What's it all mean

I wish I could get better close ups but my camera isn't co-operating. It is really owner error...don't know how to make it happen. It has auto focus but most are not in focus even when I waited for the green light. Threw away about 40 bad ones! Took these outside for better lighting.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

It's starting to look as if it will require the talents and observations of a true expert to figure out exactly what you have there. I have the time and inclination to do a variety of internet searches, but that's about the limit of my so called talents. All I can say at present is that 99% of my searches using various wordings that I felt described the items in question, invariably kept taking me full-circle back to "Mexico/Mexican." Not once did I find even a glimmer of a connection to anything "Navajo." Some searches I did produced connections to Mexican Indians, but nothing I could find related to North American Indians whatsoever. So if this were a college course and we were being tested and graded based on our personal research and oinions, I would have to go on record and say it is my "uneducated" opinion that your items are not Navajo related, and that their origin is more than likely Mexican related. As for them being sterling silver or not, I have no way of knowing with certainty, but suspect they are not, simply based on the fact they don't appear to be marked as such.

So there you have it, my Antiques Toadshow elvaluation, which is worth less than a hill of beans. I hope I am proven wrong, and would like nothing more than for them to be rare and valuable. I honestly hope they are!

Now do you want to fire me?

Thanks a million for providing us with a most invigorating topic of discussion. I can't wait to see what the final outcome will be.

In closing, I am going to go out on another limb and attach a picture of myself that was taken in 1975 when I was 23 years old, and even more of a rebel than I am now. It was taken in Navajo Country, too, and shows me sitting on a 700+ year old stone wall at the Wupatki National Monument in Arizona. Two friends and I slept among the ruins that night and listened to the winds howling around us, that we were certain were the voices of the ancient ones guiding us along life's path. And by that most unusual description of a night in the wilderness, you can pretty much see it wasn't only the walls that were made of "stone."

Later,

Bob

[ I have been back to those ruins many times, and once even took my three kids there ]

 

[AU24K]

My best guess are vintage "kachina" charm bracelet figures similar, but older than these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sterling-Silver...805?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fadb176d

or these:
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/unusual-old-pawn-silver-kachina-symbols-charm

The OP's items, if verified as being as old as indicated on the paper attached to the box, as I suspect they are, would command a nice premium above his purchase price.

If they were made during that period of time by craftsmen of the southwest with small pieces of silver, they may NOT have any type of "Sterling" or ".925" marking. It's possible that they were made for use to exchange at outposts for blankets, food, etc.

Best,
Scott

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

My best guess are vintage "kachina" charm bracelet figures similar, but older than these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sterling-Silver...805?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fadb176d

The OP's items, if verified as being as old as indicated on the paper attached to the box, as I suspect they are, would command a nice premium above his purchase price.

Do you have any other Kachina examples? The items look much closer to the Milagros. As a matter of fact several milagros are exact matches.

Even if the OPs items are silver and old as the paper indicates, they are not worth much more than melt if they are Mexican. They will only have value if they can be proven to be made by the Navajo. And so far nobody can find a similar example.

Foundatreasure, your latest picture shows how cool they are. But I want to mention that the old Mexican stick people also have the different faces. I think the "tic tac toe" may represent hands folded.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Scott that Worthpoint link you just posted looks closer. The site is so slow today.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I know I was recently fired, but I consider the following to be significant enough to be worth reporting. I took a detour away from my normal method of research and instead have spent the last two hours looking at dozens if not hundreds of 1880s, 1890s original photographs of Navajo and other Native American peoples. And not in one of them was anyone wearing milagos type jewelry, nor anything that even remotely resembled it. And you can be certain that Navajo's wore a ton of jewelry back then, just as they do today. My conclusion is, if they made it, they'd wear it. Which is just not the case based on hundreds of original and historical photographs. If the milagros are in some way related to the Navajo, it seems more likely that it was something they got in trade from Mexican traders and then melted it down for use in the making of their own exquisite jewelry. So if that can be called "Navajo Silver," then I rest my case and will eat my hat ta'boot!

I suggest that others focus some time on vintage photographs and see what you can find that I might have missed.

Gracias'

Roberto

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Sounds like you did a lot of work Bob. Im going to have to wait for Vanessa.

I would say that at least some of the items are Milagros. Its too close a match to ignore. There may be a mixed bag because the stick men seem to be a different alloy.

"Navaho Trade Tokens:" Im a little confuded. Does this mean that someone traded silver trinkets to the Indians for meat, woven goods or hides like in the fur trade era? ...or does this mean the Indians trade these for supplies? ....or could it be both?

Were the Navajo selling silver to tourists in the 1890's?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_weaving

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Based on my personal knowledge and research, a true Trade Token was a coin made for and issued by a trading post like the famous Hubbles. The tokens were given to the Indians (or traded) for goods they brought in like jewelry, rugs, hides, corn, etc., and the tokens could be used later like money. The only problem with that seems to be that tokens were only good at the post where they were issued. So this created some competition between the trading post themselves. Pawn was Jewelry, etc. that the Indians left with the trading post in exchange for goods, and could later be bought or traded back.

Trade with tourist started when the railroads were first established. In fact, this was when the jewelry and rug production really began to flourish. When the trains slowed or stopped, Indians would hold their wares up to the train windows for the travelers to admire and buy. One of the most popular items were "Skookum" dolls, which were lifelike reproductions of the Indians themselves. I have one in my personal collection that I highly prize.

Below is the silversmith who started it all. The photo itself was taken in 1883. The rest of the story is briefly told here ...

In 1864, most Navajo were forced on the infamous 470-mile "Long Walk" to Bosque Redondo (Fort Sumner), New Mexico, where 9,022 people were imprisoned by 1865. There, Atsidi Sani asked government agents for metalsmithing tools so he could teach his people a valuable trade. In 1868 when the survivors returned to the Navajo reservation, they took those tools with them. From this core group the art of silversmithing spread. Silver coins were melted with a blowtorch and buffalo-hide bellows to make the first Navajo silver jewelry. Hammers and chisels were their first tools. They later added decorative stamp work by adapting leather-stamping tools.

[ Atsidi Sani 1830 - 1913 ]

Photo taken 1883

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

For anyone interested in black & white photographs of Native American Navajo's, and would like to get up close and personal with their culture, the link below connects to a website showing the renowned collection of Fran Johnson Newcomb. Her work is considered some of the best ever done. For the photos, just click on the top where it says photographs. Once in the gallery, it may seem a little tricky at first, but just click on the thumbnail picture to enlarge it, and then click on it again to reduce it and move on to the next one. I believe there are about 200 different photographs in the collection. I guarantee, when you are through looking at them, you will leave with an entirely renewed perspective about one of the greatest peoples on earth.

Link: http://www.navajophotos.org/default.htm

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Here are examples of typical Skookum dolls. Mine is similar to the man on the left. Notice the baby peeking over the shoulder of the mother. They average about $100.00 each for examples from the 1920s and 30s. Some of the earlier examples (1890s) are considerably more.

 

[AU24K]

I would say that at least some of the items are Milagros. Its too close a match to ignore. There may be a mixed bag because the stick men seem to be a different alloy.

"Navaho Trade Tokens:" Im a little confuded. Does this mean that someone traded silver trinkets to the Indians for meat, woven goods or hides like in the fur trade era? ...or does this mean the Indians trade these for supplies? ....or could it be both?

Were the Navajo selling silver to tourists in the 1890's?

I agree about the "mixed bag."
Some of the items look like they were cut from coinage or made to resemble such...

The label, as provenance of the description of the contents, is suspect;
Perhaps the labelling is in error but still of the time period indicated by the ink, the box itself, etc.

Best,
Scott

PS. Some of them appear to have a seam on the edges indicating a 2 piece mold of some sort.
Would this be an indicator of production dates or age?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

A BRIEF HISTORY OF MILAGROS

The use and prevalence of milagros is most noticeable in Mexico, where entire altars are coated with tiny silver milagros, and where statues of the saints are literally festooned with them. Small, flat, stamped Mexican milagros made in a village near Guadalahara are those most commonly seen in the United States. While they may be silver or gold in color, they are rarely of true silver or gold. It is thought that the relatively recent use of milagros in *New Mexico came north from Mexico with immigrants. Today, one sees a variety of milagros offered for sale in New Mexico. Occasionally one can find old Peruvian, Bolivian, Guatemalan, Mexican or Ecuadorian milagros, but they are not common. Sterling silver reproductions of old milagros from all parts of Latin America, hand-finished in New Mexico, are available in various shops and museum stores. The milagros most commonly offered for sale in New Mexico are the thumbnail-sized, silver-washed, flat Mexican milagros. Sometimes they have been tacked onto a cross made of old wood, or a wooden shoe last. **

* The reference to New Mexico is important because Santa Fe, New Mexico is the oldest non-native community in the western United States. Here is a brief history.

While Santa Fe was inhabited on a very small scale in 1607, it was truly settled by the conquistador Don Pedro de Peralta in 1609-1610. Santa Fe is the site of both the oldest public building in America, the Palace of the Governors and the nation's oldest community celebration, the Santa Fe Fiesta, established in 1712 to commemorate the Spanish reconquest of New Mexico in the summer of 1692. Peralta and his men laid out the plan for Santa Fe at the base of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains on the site of the ancient Pueblo Indian ruin of Kaupoge, or "place of shell beads near the water."

** I wasn't sure what a shoe "last" was, so I looked it up.

A shoe last is a form in the approximate shape of a human foot, used by shoemakers and cordwainers in the manufacture and repair of shoes. Lasts typically come in pairs, and throughout their history have been made from many materials, including hardwoods, cast iron, and, more recently, high density plastics.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It would make sense that the Navajo were exposed to Mexican Milagros. It may also be true that the Navajos traded with Mexican silver Milagros. The question that I have is did the Navajo actually make Milagros as well? How can you tell the difference? Would the Navajo make kneeling, praying Milagros?

Im like you Bob, I am unfamiliar with Milagros. Im just using a little common sense added with some research.

 

[foundatreasure]

I liked the picture from yesterday of you in the 70's - the good old days. Oh no! I sound like an old person!!

Thanks for all the new info. Surprisingly I have owned a shoe last. Not for very long though as it ended up on eBay some time ago.

I have not heard back from Morning Star Gallery in NM. I emailed 4 pics to them with the query if they had any connection to the Navajo people earlier today. Time zone is most likely 3 hours different than here so I will wait a bit.

With all the info provided it would seem that the box & contents could still be valuable if the box is accurately dated at least. Your last post says the old Milagros are rare today. Ironically I just started a Spanish speaking class. Now I know a new word...miracle! I still believe the box is right for the period & I also think it is intact as far as being original as displayed. Maybe it will be a miracle!