First post WHAT IS THIS MARKING???

[Bobsfinds]

Hello to all my first post and hopefully some closure.Long story on this one I will explain if this can be identified.It is marked on brass from Wilmington Delaware estate I would imagine this marking appears on many detecting finds as well.Colonial origin 18th century or older.The other image is forged on the end of a 18th century fishing hook appears like old map art of British Isles or French fur trade no idea.I need help big time on these for provenance of my items.

 

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[Nitric]

Not exactly I do not think you would understand.Symbolic shape a province mark since brass does not have hallmarks iron bronze other non precious metals they were also marked in many instances.and that hook is several inches.Have you ever saw any of the art work they did back in the 18th century that you can barely see with your eyes?They printed a whole name on the slimmest part of this hook from Ronn Lucas site.I can point it out if we were siting in a lecture hall and trust me lectures are done on the time period and how did people do what they did way back when.My sister is an essay writer a dissertation helper you would be amazed at what I learned helping her research a thesis topic.I hate to put it this way but some people would pay 10k to have someone write a dissertation start to finish I am not saying she does that.She use to be an examiner of thesis now a helper and self employed.I get paid to help her research if she needs the help as well as photography for other projectsView attachment 1124517

I'm going to ask a dumb question. I'm kind of confused on what it is that you are trying to Identify or look for.

Are you looking for small maps or symbols in the objects or how the objects were made?

I've seen watches from the time period and the work is amazing for what they had to work with.

I think some of the marks are just from being used and how things were built.

So, first you would have to know how each piece was made and used, then figure out if the marks are left from that, or were put in there for another reason of code or hidden message? Maybe, I'm misunderstanding what your looking for!

 

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[cw0909]

hi Bob, had to read, this thread 2xs, i think i got it now
the fishing rod, it looks like something iron laid on that spot and left a rusty spot
macro img shot in daylight might help

fish hook, to bad dude wont soak it in some olive oil and let some rust fall off
maybe try the same type of shot i suggested for the rod

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

The hook would have been formed from wire and the and the snell end flattened buy pounding it on a anvil. Any marks would have been coincidental from flaws on either the face of the hammer or the anvil and transferred to the workpiece.

Some manufacturers apparently took the effort to create a die that made a more uniform flattened "eye" and an incised letter ("B" and "H" were shown on Ronn's site) resulted in a raised letter on the hook. This was probably done at a trip-hammer in a more mass produced shop/forge.

In the image you can see the end was formed without regard to an even strike (the end is "freehand" and irregular) so most likely it was just placed on a flat surface and pounded once to flatten the tip. No reason to "pretty up" a cod or pike hook.

 

[Peachy]

Sorry, I'm out.

 

[DCMatt]

OK. I've read this thread twice and I still don't get it.

Are we talking about a "tie on the end of line and put bait on it" fish hook? Or an "on the end of a long pole" gaff hook?

Pictures please - of the whole object in question. Not just the tiny part you think means something.

Like many of the contributors here I've been IDing object on this forum for a while. When we get good information we do a good job identifying relics and artifacts... and junk. But without full disclosure, we're all shooting in the dark for answers.

We do this for free, so please read and follow the guidelines before posting here:

IMPORTANT!
​

When posting in "What Is It?", please give members the information they need to help identify your find:

1. Post sharp closeup photos of both the front and the back.

2. State the actual size of the item. Also, if possible, put something with it in the photo for scale: a common U.S. coin, a ruler, etc.

3. If there are any inscriptions which cannot be easily read in the photos, type them in full in your post.

4. If there are maker's marks, numbers, symbols, or other marks on the back which are not easily seen in the photo, post a closeup or a drawing of them.

5. Indicate the composition of the item. For example: "thin brass, filled with lead on the back."

• Do not deliberately withhold any information just to "have fun" seeing if members can guess correctly.

• Once your item has been identified, don't forget to mark it "Solved."

• Finally, if someone identifies your item or provides other helpful information, take time to post your appreciation— and maybe send a PM to say, "Thanks!" too.

 

[bigfoot1]

dc...its a 6 1/2"fish hook 1700s and an equally old rod.he is considering the purchase of the hook but owns the rod..

 

[NHBandit]

I'm out too. First the guy insisted that the "stuff" on the fish hook wasn't rust. Was even willing to bet on it. Now it is rust and he wishes he could poke at it with a toothpick. This whole thread has been as clear as mud and it's not getting any better.. Carry on..

 

[Bobsfinds]

Yes the rod is early trying to track the origin and match it with the hook.I am pretty involved in doing so and will post descriptive pics soon.Here is where I am at.The markings on the hook and rod I found scattered all over fort areas in north America and Canada mostly on iron.So far the only one on brass is my rod. as well as Indian trade Gorget I saw marked as well but just described as touchmarks unknown.There is no way in heck the rod was bought by an Indian these were not cheap.It may have been traded stolen then bartered.It is from a Delaware estate.Honestly I do not see the rod being out of that area if it was real early there was a fur trading post in Wilmington.The forge mark on the hook is connected appears on the rod and so does the square shape that usually is a cartographic symbol on a map meaning from a fort.I think all the marks are cartographic related.I am working hard on this and will post the results soon with good pics as well,the axe is of unknown origin.They all seem to have been through merchants at forts areas one way ore another.I have my work cut out.Here is the rod in question the unknown axe and the marking of the cartographic symbol on the rod.I wish I can add more but next batch I will have it all sorted and marked.Someone mentioned sun light as an aid.Sunlight is great for pictures as you saw the amber of this rod.Unfortunately when looking for weak images sunlight takes the good colors and overwhelms the weak images.No flash and indoor or shaded light work best

 

[BosnMate]

dc...its a 6 1/2"fish hook 1700s and an equally old rod.he is considering the purchase of the hook but owns the rod..

Why did I have to read through four pages to find this out. I think he's wanting to make something that isn't there, so it will be a match to his pole somehow or another.
I'm with a couple of others, I'm out of here.

 

[Bobsfinds]

Why did I have to read through four pages to find this out. I think he's wanting to make something that isn't there, so it will be a match to his pole somehow or another.
I'm with a couple of others, I'm out of here.

You know those big mouths and lazy attitudes remind me of the new breed of workers. Are you a union worker feel privileged to be sarcastic and ignorant? It only took me a little while to remember it thanks to some of the rude attitudes that lit a fire under my butt.Ohh and it should also clear up some of your re stamped trade axes.

fort michilimackinac that was the name I was looking for. The forge marks were french.Stay tuned I have more items that are invisible that may clear up some of your unknown finds. You may also like to know the was the hub of the fur trade as well and they supplied the Indians for years to turn them against the British. History is great when you base it on physical evidence and not some lame unknown excuse all the time. Happy trails Bob

 

[NHBandit]

You know those big mouths and lazy attitudes remind me of the new breed of workers. Are you a union worker feel privileged to be sarcastic and ignorant? It only took me a little while to remember it thanks to some of the rude attitudes that lit a fire under my butt.Ohh and it should also clear up some of your re stamped trade axes.

fort michilimackinac that was the name I was looking for. The forge marks were french.Stay tuned I have more items that are invisible that may clear up some of your unknown finds. You may also like to know the was the hub of the fur trade as well and they supplied the Indians for years to turn them against the British. History is great when you base it on physical evidence and not some lame unknown excuse all the time. Happy trails Bob

"ignorant" ? Big mouths and lazy ? Lame ? Seriously ? I don't see this ending well... You've played some silly, childish guessing game beginning with your very first post, making people pry the details of just exactly what it was we are looking at. And now when people are fed up with it you start with the name calling and acting all superior & crap ? Like the song says.. "Don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to".... We are a very helpful bunch here and always welcome new folks and do what we can to make them feel at home. But when someone pulls this crap don't pretend to be offended when the gloves come off.. You didn't come here looking for help. You came here with a pre-conceived opinion on what it is you have and wanted validation without any disagreement or having to provide any proof or listen to any opposing views. Sorry dude... that's not how it works. Have a good day.

 

[DCMatt]

Bobsfinds said:

Yes the rod is early trying to track the origin and match it with the hook

So the goal of this exercise is to find the origin of your early rod. And the hook in question is from where?

You seem to imply in your posts that you feel the rod is somehow related to the fur trade. Now I'll admit I'm no fur trade expert (we do have one or two who frequent this forum) and I know even less about early fishing equipment. But I do know the men from those early days in the wilderness were extremely practical. They had to be. Their lives depended on it.

Why would a trader or a native want to carry around a fancy segmented stick for fishing when they could just cut a pole at the water's edge or just skip the pole and throw in a hook and line? To me, it doesn't make sense.

Again I'm no expert on 18th C fishing, but isn't it more likely that your rod is for a gentleman who had the time and inclination for sport fishing? Or am I missing a point?

If you do have evidence of fishing rods being used by fur traders or natives, I'd be interested to read some of it.

Good luck with your research.

DCMatt

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

You want to match a 6-1/2" hook to a wood rod?

Fur traders would not have bothered with a rod. "Sport Fishing" would just not have occurred. They were trappers and market hunters. Any fishing would have been nets, trot lines or hand-lines.

There are few freshwater fish in the United Stated that a 6" hook would be used for. Anything needing a hook that size would put a heavy hurt on a wood rod - though we still don't know the length. It does appear to have sleeves for a reel and guides. The Pritchard folding ring guides were patented in 1859.

 

[calisdad]

You want to match a 6-1/2" hook to a wood rod?

Yeah- that's never going to happen. When I first realized what we were looking at (on page whatever) I thought tuna but I suppose it could be a gator hook. But then who catches gator with any rod at all?

I learned some interesting things on this thread- mostly on Ronn Lucas Sr's site. The OP appears to have some knowledge in the vintage tackle field. I think he would rather hoard it tho, otherwise why be so cryptic.

"You never get a second chance to make a first impression." except of course on the interweb ;-) .

 

[tokenhead]

Fishing for a positive I.D. to sell Quite often the case. HAPPY HUNTING ALL!!!

 

[Peachy]

Me thinks the writing style familiar, thats why I bailed.

 

[Bobsfinds]

Thanks explained

Well this is complete blunder on my part being my buddy recommended this site for some fur trade items in some small talk.He said the guys are a good bunch and started a thread as well.Here is where I messed up.I am on the wrong site.The other site has a similar name and except after treasure it is something else.I did get a little paranoid with the responses and started to feel strange at one point doubted myself but thought no way I am I wrong I know this history well and the methods I use have never failed me.Let me just say I do not need your opinion to sell anything if anything it would be the opposite ypou would need mine more than the other way around for some of the people who answered my thread.The wise guys sure can use a good history lesson and a diaper change.The other guys seemed as confused as myself being they had no idea what the heck I was talking about but they listened.Some of the toddlers here should learn about provenance and what is involved.oak Islnad 200 years and a shard of a gold chain a copper coin and who knows maybe a piece of 8 planted for the tv show.Mel Fisher 16 years obsession and he lost his son in the process.Me I am going on several weeks thanks to the internet and you guys are crying like babies and pointing fingers.I retired at 48 years old not welfare or disability retired hard work and wise investments.A few of you guys here are real bummers Johnny rainclouds.You can ruin a persons motivation.Not mine though.So I will give this site full credit when this rod comes to surface as the oldest rod known being it now dates into the 1600s and still counting.Pritchard guides they are not and reels have been around for 3000 years there just is not any examples of any reels until about 1760 but they can be found on paintings 100s of years older and Chinese art 3000 years old.Split bamboo rods were supposedly what the Americans were credited for but I do thing the Chinese used them long ago that is my only guess everything else I have is fact and thanks to this work (link attached) that is still going on for over 60 years of excavation and research I am getting a little closer.I am no where close to a tackle collector of a hoarder.To some I guess a smile and good luck is impossible to do or say.My self I thank all who took the time to look.#12 is on the hook and #13 is on the rod.Keep in mind the artifacts in the book are most likely shards and some white out is applied on the area that has nothing to do with the image.These markings can all be found on a lot of early fur trade knives axes Gorgets and other items traded.The rod was most likely an east coast item owned by a wealthy officer or settler.The dueling pistols of Versailles France carries similar styles of imaging as do the mast heads of early ship.I was also correct on the map cartography as well.Axes Knives and other merchant forged items came in large barrels by the thousands with out handles.The Merchant would add a fancy bone or would grip as well as the axe handles.Tomahawk peace pipes ect.There is writing under the amber I have not even got to yet.A trip to Tennessee looks to be my next coarse of action there is someone there who will be able to run full spectrum analysis which I can do but I will need this fully documented.Anyone who still does not see anything just to show that yes we do use Ipads for the resolution and ease of plotting here is a link of some college kids putting one to use.I have my field cameras and tablet glare is impossible to deal with but we make our own shade if we are out doors.I added a link on resolutions and why your ,most likely blind to a lot of object on the internet dig sites that use high resolution imagery.My provenance grows weekly more to come.Here is the Excavation site of Guntersville Basin and thanks for looking.http://www.gustavslibrary.com/gvplate11600.jpg
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[Rich jaws]

Cray cray me thinks.

 

[Twig57]

Agree

 

[Doubter in MD]

I have read the thread. I still don't understand exactly what the OP is saying or asking. Bobsfinds last post confused me more than ever. I guess I don't speak Bobsfinds. Can someone translate?