Ely's description of where Ruth's body was found - an experiment...

[Bavarian Joe]

Ruth seems to have gotten around pretty well for a man with his physical problems.

Has anyone considered the possibility of suicide?

A man his age, near the end of his life (at least for that era) chasing down that one last dream only to find he was sold a bill of goods. Knowing that he let down the people who grubstaked him.

 

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[markmar]

There are several accounts that talk about a third and larger map that was taken from Ruth's body. This map is the one that has the laurel grove marked on it. It is referred to as "the old Spanish map" in the Ruth-Jones correspondences.

The " laurel grove " was marked in Spanish or English ? This is a precious and important detail .

 

[markmar]

Ruth seems to have gotten around pretty well for a man with his physical problems.

Has anyone considered the possibility of suicide?

A man his age, near the end of his life (at least for that era) chasing down that one last dream only to find he was sold a bill of goods. Knowing that he let down the people who grubstaked him.

From what i remember , there was not missing any bullet from his gun .

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Ruth seems to have gotten around pretty well for a man with his physical problems.

Has anyone considered the possibility of suicide?

A man his age, near the end of his life (at least for that era) chasing down that one last dream only to find he was sold a bill of goods. Knowing that he let down the people who grubstaked him.

Bavarian Joe,

Yes, in the Maricopa County Sheriff's investigation the possibility of suicide was looked into but all the known evidence pointed otherwise.

1. Ruth had a small caliber pistol with him. It was found among his things and had not been fired.
2. Ruth's last written note from his camp to his wife indicated exhausted but enthusiastic prospects about continuing the search.
3. The last three people known to see him alive, Cal Morse, LeRoy Purnell and Jack Keenan all stated they left Ruth in good spirits and that Ruth was expecting them to resupply his camp.
4. Nothing was found with Ruth's remains with which Ruth might have used to kill himself.

Of course this doesn't mean Ruth couldn't have committed suicide, just that the Sheriff's evidence could not explain how or why he might have done it.

Best,

Matthew

 

[azdave35]

Bavarian Joe,

Yes, in the Maricopa County Sheriff's investigation the possibility of suicide was looked into but all the known evidence pointed otherwise.

1. Ruth had a small caliber pistol with him. It was found among his things and had not been fired.
2. Ruth's last written note from his camp to his wife indicated exhausted but enthusiastic prospects about continuing the search.
3. The last three people known to see him alive, Cal Morse, LeRoy Purnell and Jack Keenan all stated they left Ruth in good spirits and that Ruth was expecting them to resupply his camp.
4. Nothing was found with Ruth's remains with which Ruth might have used to kill himself.

Of course this doesn't mean Ruth couldn't have committed suicide, just that the Sheriff's evidence could not explain how or why he might have done it.

Best,

Matthew

ruth didnt commit suicide...he was too excited about what he had found (veni vedi vici)...besides most treasure hunters are so used to failure it doesnt bother them..they just regroup and go at it at a different angle..no way he killed himself ..someone did that for him...lol

 

[Bavarian Joe]

ruth didnt commit suicide...he was too excited about what he had found (veni vedi vici)...besides most treasure hunters are so used to failure it doesnt bother them..they just regroup and go at it at a different angle..no way he killed himself ..someone did that for him...lol

The "veni vidi vinci" comment was written the night before, IIRC. He thought he found it, maybe the next day revealed otherwise.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

The "veni vidi vinci" comment was written the night before, IIRC. He thought he found it, maybe the next day revealed otherwise.

Actually, Ruth only wrote,...... veni, vidi. (I came, I saw) he never wrote the word vici (I conquered).

Much speculation over exactly what it was he saw. Did he see the landmark(s) he was looking for?

He purposely left out the word vici for a reason. He knew at the point he wrote it he had YET to vici (conquer).

Conquer what? Much speculation over that also.

The truth?

Only Ruth knew what he meant when he wrote those two words.

Best,

Matthew

 

[motel6.5]

My version of B. Storms book.T.G.G., states the note was found on the inside band of his hat. I wonder if it was penned by another person and placed their after his demise. Since the Quote was not complete,its possible the person did not know its completeness.Though not sure why this might have been done,lf so.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

The note was found tucked in a blank checkbook of Ruth's. This is the full note:

It lies within an imaginary circle, whose diameter is not more than five miles, and whose
center is marked by the weaver needle about twenty five hundred feet high-among a
confusion of lesser peaks and mountainous masses of basaltic rock.
The first gorge on the South side from the West end of the range they found a
monumented trail which led them northward over a lofty ridge, thence downward past
Sombrero butte into a long canyon running north, and finally a tributary canyon very
deep and rocky and densely wooded with a continuous thicket of scrub oak.
Veni, Vidi,
about 200 feet across from cave”

This note was also sent to his people in Washington and identified as in the Doctor’s
handwriting.

Best,

Matthew

 

[deducer]

The " laurel grove " was marked in Spanish or English ? This is a precious and important detail .

Until the map surfaces, we'll never know. My hunch is that whatever marks the laurel grove is just a drawing of a bunch of trees. I think that would suffice.

 

[azdave35]

Until the map surfaces, we'll never know. My hunch is that it's just a drawing of a bunch of trees. I think that would suffice.

i saw the map in question years ago...it was a fairly large map and there was alot more than a bunch of trees (i just got a glance at it)..

 

[deducer]

i saw the map in question years ago...it was a fairly large map and there was alot more than a bunch of trees (i just got a glance at it)..

That's interesting. What was your general sense of the map? Did you think it contained any significant information?

 

[azdave35]

That's interesting. What was your general sense of the map? Did you think it contained any significant information?

i didnt get a good enough look at it but there was alot of symbols and trails on it..do i think it contained significant information?....yes i do..if what i was told about it is true at least one man was murdered for it ...and they left two maps and took this one

 

[motel6.5]

AZdave,could you tell us what matteral the map was made of, and if it was dated...thanx.

 

[markmar]

i didnt get a good enough look at it but there was alot of symbols and trails on it..do i think it contained significant information?....yes i do..if what i was told about it is true at least one man was murdered for it ...and they left two maps and took this one

I believe that map had changed few " hands " between two murders in the years 1930-1931 .
Manuel Peralta Gonzalez went in 1930 in the Superstitions ( as stated B. Storm in his book ) after 56 years from his first trip when he was involved with Charles Clark . This time he was carrying new maps which were for another mines than that in his first trip . He vanished without traces after met Roy Bradford in upper La Barge Canyon .
In late spring of 1931 , Cal Morse called Ruth to come quickly in Arizona , maybe as an expert in maps decrypting , because new clues ( maps ? ) arised in regards the LDM . Ruth came , and after some discussions over the new clues , he made the plan of his research in regards with what the new clues would represented . Ruth began his research in June and maybe died while searching in the same month .
From the maps that Ruth supposed to had in his research , rumors say how was missed one . For sure Cal Morse would knew what map was because he knew Ruth's plan and strategy for his research and the motives which leaded him to his movements .
IMO , if a map was removed from Ruth's body , then maybe this map returned to his second " owner " after Gonzalez .

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Actually, Ruth only wrote,...... veni, vidi. (I came, I saw) he never wrote the word vici (I conquered).

Much speculation over exactly what it was he saw. Did he see the landmark(s) he was looking for?

He purposely left out the word vici for a reason. He knew at the point he wrote it he had YET to vici (conquer).

Conquer what? Much speculation over that also.

The truth?

Only Ruth knew what he meant when he wrote those two words.

Best,

Matthew

Hi Matthew,

After looking at the photostat of the original note (pg. 152 of Dr. Glover's "Treasure Tales of the Superstitions"), it appears Ruth actually wrote "Veni, vidi, vici"...the "vici" part is nearly obliterated, but under a magnifying glass, it's there...not that it makes much difference anyhow!

Edit: Sorry, forgot to add "Clues, Maps and Twice Told Tales" to the title. Really the best book yet on the subject IMO. Best regards, Jim

 

[markmar]

There are several accounts that talk about a third and larger map that was taken from Ruth's body. This map is the one that has the laurel grove marked on it. It is referred to as "the old Spanish map" in the Ruth-Jones correspondences.

If the missing map ( with the Laurel grove ) had any relation with the Erwin Ruth clue about the " mine is on a knob about 50 feet high " , then the region of the map is not in Peters Mesa . There is a Laurel grove about half mile from the " knob " .

 

[cactusjumper]

Hi Matthew,

After looking at the photostat of the original note (pg. 152 of Dr. Glover's "Treasure Tales of the Superstitions"), it appears Ruth actually wrote "Veni, vidi, vici"...the "vici" part is nearly obliterated, but under a magnifying glass, it's there...not that it makes much difference anyhow!

Edit: Sorry, forgot to add "Clues, Maps and Twice Told Tales" to the title. Really the best book yet on the subject IMO. Best regards, Jim

Jim,

Lot's of people have repeated what Matthew wrote. I'm surprised he bought it, considering the sources he has. Believe you are on the money more often than not.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Hi Matthew,

After looking at the photostat of the original note (pg. 152 of Dr. Glover's "Treasure Tales of the Superstitions"), it appears Ruth actually wrote "Veni, vidi, vici"...the "vici" part is nearly obliterated, but under a magnifying glass, it's there...not that it makes much difference anyhow!

Pot BellyJim,

This is just one of the MANY things about Adolph Ruth's disappearance and death that must be looked at a little deeper than just scratching the surface.



On January 5, 1932, Jeff Adams found folded neatly in Ruth's checkbook, a note written by Ruth describing the mine and country nearby the mine. It was written in ink.

The words veni vidi were written on that note in pencil.

The descriptive note in ink was written by Adolph Ruth but the words veni vidi in pencil were not. In fact look at those two words (veni vidi) closely, they look like two separate words written by two separate persons. The word vici does not appear on the original note but does appear later on written in, then erased by someone other than Adolph Ruth.

Also, the penciled note, "200 feet across from the cave" appears later on the same note. Also not in Adolph Ruth's handwriting.

Figure out how all this can have happened and who was involved and you are well on your way to solving the Ruth mystery. There's a lot more to this than meets the eye.

Here's a tip. Block out the people who tell you who knows what and who doesn't and do your own thinking for yourself.

Best to you Jim,

Matthew

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Thanks Matthew,

That's very good advice, and thanks for taking the time to bring us "greenhorns" along...I've been interested in the LDM my whole life, as my family is from Maricopa Co. and I heard many tales about it over the years. But it's only relatively recently that I started taking the story seriously and have learned a lot I didn't know before...practically all the assumptions I originally had have been proven false.

Thanks also for sharing the pics, the only thing I would say is the letter you've shown is different from the one shown in Dr. Glover's book (pg. 152). Dr. Glover had an old photostat that I'm pretty sure he got from the Ely family. They received it from Erwin Ruth.

The pics of the note you've shown look to me as if they're a transcription of the original note. For example, words that were unreadable in the original were replaced with a line...The original note also had dark stains on it, which show up white in the photostat...supposedly the dark stains were thought to be blood, but who knows. The "vici" part of the quote is nearly obliterated by one of those dark stains, so I can see why it may not be included in a transcription, as it takes a magnifying glass to see...all I can see is the v, the i, and the c, and not very well, but it's there. I obviously can't share the pic in the book as it's copyrighted material...perhaps Dr. Glover may see this and might be able to upload the photostat.

Do you happen to know the origin of the note you have? I don't think I've seen it before, so thanks again for sharing it, as well as all the other great history you've posted here. Best regards, Jim