El Naranjal

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI ORO: K, long em in the morning.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI: em bounced, my fault, am redoing it, sorry

Don Jose de La mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Got it amigo - will send you a reply SOON!
Oroblanco

 

[pegleglooker]

OOOOOOHHHH I see how you two are !!!!!! going off in your own corner.... whispering.... HEY what about me ?!?!?! Don't I count ?
GGGGGEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZ......
LOLOLOLOLOL

PLL

 

[Oroblanco]

Pegleglooker wrote

OOOOOOHHHH I see how you two are !!!!!! going off in your own corner.... whispering.... HEY what about me ?!?!?! Don't I count ?
GGGGGEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZ......

Pegleg - if you knew what was going on, it would "rock your world"! (I am kidding of course) You don't surmise that the real argument (er, I mean "private discussion") between Don Jose and myself really is rooted in our ongoing debate of the virtues of horses versus mules? That barranca country is unbelievably rough, perhaps the mules might be more sure footed - which may explain why mules are used for the Grand Canyon tours rather than horses. There are also problems in bringing horses across the border, in both directions so local purchases or even rentals are probably wiser than trying to haul them in. I hate having to use "strange" horses (or mules) as you never know what you are getting, but one has to make do. Besides, I don't own even one horse now, and the old horse trailer is looking it's age - I have serious doubts whether it would make the trip.

One more thing amigo - are you kidding, of course you count! What do you think, what would you recommend for a pack critter, if someone were to go hunt for El Naranjal, horse, mule, burro, llama? All have their advantages and disadvantages of course. Or would you go without any kind of critter to have to worry about, just pack it all on your back? The 4-wheelers are the "modern" option, but they are noisy, attract attention, cannot cross many obstacles and require gasoline, plus if one falls onto your leg it won't even try to get off it, which any horse or mule will do. Thank you in advance,

Oroblanco

 

[pegleglooker]

Hello Oro,
Well you're in luck. I can't seem to sleep, so I thought I would do some late night " trolling ". First of all I am feeling all warm and fuzzy inside.... so THANK YOU... But on to the task, I would think you you were covering all your bases, you have to take a horse, a mule, some quads ( for distraction ) and of a course a " new guy " just for some added beginners luck ( see that's where I come in ). Use the horses for the easy stuff, and then the mules for the hard stuff, and send the quads in another direction just to throw people off the trail. But ALWAYS listen to the new guy crying about a warm bed, having toilet paper, what are those noises at night, D@#$ there are a lot of bugs, a cold beer, some " companionship " ( not the trail kind ), and constantly saying " are sure this is the way Cause the other path looked better ", because you know the minute you stop listening, he will make the GREAT find.....

PLL

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

PLL: Frankly this isn't any wheel type country, foot or animal only, where possible. Naranjal is basically the same.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,
Long reply, I beg your indulgence.

Pegleglooker wrote

Hello Oro,
Well you're in luck. I can't seem to sleep, so I thought I would do some late night " trolling ". First of all I am feeling all warm and fuzzy inside.... so THANK YOU... But on to the task, I would think you you were covering all your bases, you have to take a horse, a mule, some quads ( for distraction ) and of a course a " new guy " just for some added beginners luck ( see that's where I come in ). Use the horses for the easy stuff, and then the mules for the hard stuff, and send the quads in another direction just to throw people off the trail. But ALWAYS listen to the new guy crying about a warm bed, having toilet paper, what are those noises at night, D@#$ there are a lot of bugs, a cold beer, some " companionship " ( not the trail kind ), and constantly saying " are sure this is the way Cause the other path looked better ", because you know the minute you stop listening, he will make the GREAT find...

and Real de Tayopa wrote

Frankly this isn't any wheel type country, foot or animal only, where possible. Naranjal is basically the same

Pegleg I get what you are saying, and the idea of using quads to mislead those unwanted "guests" probably would work. El terrain es muy peligroso - probably can't use wheeled vehicles to get very close. Besides, I don't think you would want any drug lords following you at all, even if you have a quad that will do 80. Best course is to avoid them entirely and not attract any attention if possible. I have a "rant" here -

<begin RANT> I know some of our friends choose to go treasure hunting loaded for bear, packing all sorts of weaponry and with an attitude that they want to shoot it out if any drug lords should cross their paths, but IMHO this is perhaps the worst possible plan. What possible good can you get out of any treasure, if you get killed while trying to get it? These drug lords are armed with weapons on a par with military forces, they know how to use them and probably will outnumber you, if not they can sure call up more help to get the job done. It is best (IMHO) to avoid them, keep a LOW PROFILE and just keep away from any kind of such violent encounter. The only scenario in which I would choose to shoot it out, is if the "bad guys" have gotten us cornered somewhere. By all means carry a gun and know how to use it, but remember we are not the posse and it is not our job to shoot it out with the outlaws. I don't even think it a good idea to approach any strangers you run across in the tall tules, this may seem unfriendly but you don't need anyone trailing you. I don't care if someone thinks that is being a coward, but you have to survive to be able to spend all that treasure. </end RANT>

Don Jose - your photos are enough to scare the daylights out of a fat old man like me! I don't know if I would be "tough enough" to get around country like that, and El Naranjal is in the very same kind of country. We are still in the "talking about it" stage, so maybe I can get toughened up enough. That Tayopa country is so beautiful it is almost unbelievable. I do hope you will allow me to visit it with you sometime, that is if I can get up and down those mountains! Sheesh! If El Narajal is in fact at or near the bottom of one of those barrancas, it is going to be tough just getting there to look at it. Packing out the gold is going to be something else! I wonder if the Juana del Arco also has a cache/store of ready mined ore just waiting to be packed out?

One more thing Pegleg - you seem confident that I would get pretty close to the mine, heck I don't have that much confidence yet. Am I missing something here in these clues? If there is a key clue that you have found, I would sure appreciate if you would point it out - might make the diff when looking for a partner with a strong back! (heh heh) I know we have a bunch of clues but heck there are over 100 in the Lost Dutchman and they don't seem to help anyone, and with El Naranjal we have contradictory info (deep canyon vs high mesa).
Signed puzzled,
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

allo:
A) Why sleep on the ground when we have a nice warm House, compete with a two hole outhouse.

B) You can drive to within 800 meters line of sight of Tayopa

C) If any recoveries are made, we have descrete Helicopter service from Creel.

D) The local people do grow, but are friends of ours, besides we will share with them..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Old Dog]

I thought I had an Oro tag on this one, hmmmm.
Guess I'll try again.

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,
Don Jose de la Mancha wrote

A) Why sleep on the ground when we have a nice warm House, compete with a two hole outhouse.

You continue to surprise me Don Jose! A roof even to keep the rains out?!!!! A guy like ME could get just a little too comfy in a place like that and start calling it HOME!

Don Jose also wrote

B) You can drive to within 800 meters line of sight of Tayopa

I notice you said 800 meters line of sight, which could be 800 meters vertically right? (heh heh) I hope I am kidding!

Don Jose also wrote

C) If any recoveries are made, we have descrete Helicopter service from Creel.

Discretion is always extremely important! I can't imagine what heli service costs, but could be well worth it - things can happen when packing valuables overland.

Don Jose also wrote

D) The local people do grow, but are friends of ours, besides we will share with them..

Generosity is something you are famous for! (heh heh) Being on good terms with the locals is also excellent policy, could make a huge difference if some un-invited visitors should be hunting you up.
Oroblanco

PS Ed T wrote

I do believe you should never run into the hills without a guide though.

EXCELLENT advice amigo!

Ed T also wrote

Good luck on your quests with or without a local guide

Thanks buddy - if we do get to go we can use all the luck we can get!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: TAYOPA, thr Naranjal Training camp

HI: We have excellent cell phone service, fantastic view of some 100 miles to the south, 60 to the east, and 80 to the west. To the north it is covered with dense Pine trees.

Later in the rainy season, it is an herb lover's dream, the cool Pine laden air, mixed with herbs, is soo fragrant sigh. The heavy rains on that tin roof lull you to sleep.

Night life is just fine to 7:00 pm, then it's off to bed. Lighting is by solar charging or Kerosene amps. A small generator is there, but only to run the washing machine.

Bathing facilities are good, just break the ice off of the bucket first.

Breakfast is generally at daylight, you can sit around the stove until the tortillas are done, perhaps occasionally stealing one to be slathered with real butter, while drinking strong hill coffee...

Lunch on the trail consists of Tortillas wrapped around beans, and cold coffee. Believe me, you will appreciate them.

When the local Indian gal gets her rock/adobe oven hot , you can have hot fresh bread and cookies, no preservatives here

And so on. A city guy may not really enjoy it, but you might. We might even install Sat TV some day.

Incidentally supplies are available at Yecora. It is 35 miles to the highway, then another 15 to Yecora, a 6 1/2 - 7 hr trip one way in dry weather, ?? days in the rainy season.

A beautiful spot to write, no distractions. Still one must not forget why they are there.

Once you are broken of your city ways and thoroughly broken in, it's off to Naranjal

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Cubfan64]

Reale - I have to agree with Oro that your photo of the Tayopa "area" is awesome!

I've seen you post it a number of times now and every single time the first thought that enters my head is that views like that are what some of the earlies inland explorers must have seen and believed they truly had found a "land of milk and honey."

I heard Oro might be making an appearance at the LDM Rendezvous this fall - any chance you might hop on one of those fancy helicopters and pay us a visit too??

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Cub, I would love to, providing putting things together will allow me to. Incidentally I have tons of pictures, but it is simpler to drag those from my 'documents' and post them. Aplo.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

One of the reasons I don't like going to Mexico, is because they don't like Gringo's with guns. They have a nasty habit of locking them up and losing the key.

There are some things I just don't leave home without!

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Don Jose de la Mancha wrote

HI: We have excellent cell phone service, fantastic view of some 100 miles to the south, 60 to the east, and 80 to the west. To the north it is covered with dense Pine trees.

Later in the rainy season, it is an herb lover's dream, the cool Pine laden air, mixed with herbs, is soo fragrant sigh. The heavy rains on that tin roof lull you to sleep.

Night life is just fine to 7:00 pm, then it's off to bed. Lighting is by solar charging or Kerosene amps. A small generator is there, but only to run the washing machine.

Bathing facilities are good, just break the ice off of the bucket first.

Breakfast is generally at daylight, you can sit around the stove until the tortillas are done, perhaps occasionally stealing one to be slathered with real butter, while drinking strong hill coffee...

Lunch on the trail consists of Tortillas wrapped around beans, and cold coffee. Believe me, you will appreciate them.

When the local Indian gal gets her rock/adobe oven hot , you can have hot fresh bread and cookies, no preservatives here

And so on. A city guy may not really enjoy it, but you might. We might even install Sat TV some day.

Incidentally supplies are available at Yecora. It is 35 miles to the highway, then another 15 to Yecora, a 6 1/2 - 7 hr trip one way in dry weather, ?? days in the rainy season.

A beautiful spot to write, no distractions. Still one must not forget why they are there.

Once you are broken of your city ways and thoroughly broken in, it's off to Naranjal.

Your description makes it sound very attractive amigo, though early nights and early mornings are certainly not my strong point - it is considerably more civilized than some places we have spent time in the hunt for gold. There is an old saying in the north country that the folks over on GPAA use a lot, that if those beans don't taste so good for lunch, work a bit harder and they will taste a lot better come dinner time! (heh heh) I do have to wonder about which city ways you are referring to though, for there are some "conveniences" we have not had since the trip for a wedding, and prior to that....lets see, 2005 I think. If you refer to the internet, computers etc well those are "necessities" aren't they? (heh heh)
Puzzled again,

Cubfan wrote

I heard Oro might be making an appearance at the LDM Rendezvous this fall

We are trying to make arrangements so we can go, hoping things will work out so we can.

Cactusjumper wrote

One of the reasons I don't like going to Mexico, is because they don't like Gringo's with guns. They have a nasty habit of locking them up and losing the key.

There are some things I just don't leave home without!

As much as I would prefer to have a trusty sidearm along, the laws do not allow for it generally, however as I understand it certain other weapons are allowed which could suffice. I need to do a bit more checking on this particular bit.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Old Dog]

Roy,
When you have done the research cross reference your data with me,
See if we reach the same conclusions.

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos
Old Dog wrote

When you have done the research cross reference your data with me,
See if we reach the same conclusions.

My only sources for Mexico's gun laws are our amigos here and the internet, which makes it sound like we have no legal way to have guns in Mexico. Unless you have a hunting license? What about black powder guns? This is a point I have not found any info on - I know that in many places black powder guns are not considered firearms, and yet they would do very well for snake medicine and personal defense. What have you turned up buddy? Are black powder guns covered as "firearms" or are they legal? What about crossbows? I couldn't find anything on them either. Thank you in advance,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Ed T wrote

I want to carry a slingshot and ride a camel to El Narnajal. That way my friends can call me a slingshot packing camel jockey.

ROFLMAO - but now that you mention it, hey those "wrist rocket" slingshots are pretty danged powerful amigo, and we all remember David and Goliath right? (heh heh) The crossbow I have has a 200 lb pull and can put an arrow through a two inch solid oak door - not exactly "modern weaponry" but I think it would bring down a deer or at least a jackrabbit, which could certainly help the menu when the steady beans-rice-beans-rice diet starts getting old. As for camels, well on the plus side they can pack twice as much weight on their backs as a horse (400 pounds the usual load) and can go days without water, but any critter that can turn it's head completely around and look you in the eye while you are riding it, is a critter I don't care to ride on! (hee hee)

Ed, in case it sounds like we are on our way for a ridiculous, true wild goose chase, Mrs O and I are really still just talking about this idea, heck I don't even own the right topo maps much less have made the necessary arrangements with our employers etc. We have used pack horses in the past and plan to use them in the future - since we both have bad backs the idea of backpacking in to the back country is OUT. It would be nice if we could just ride ATV's right to the mine but that is not likely, and ATVs do tend to draw attention. For that matter, I have a pretty good clue where to look for a "local" lost mine right here in Dakota, and can't seem to get a couple of days free to go and check it out. <"Standoff Bar"> Oh well a guy can DREAM right?
Oroblanco

 

[whitt459]

hi oro! i have somewhere in my pc a journal from a dr. that did a 3yr.on the ground study around 1900 of the area that El Naranjal is at in northwest mexico, it is a very interesting read, if i can find it i will post a link if anyone is interested . whitt459