EASY CHALLENGE FOR THOSE WHO HAVE CHALLENGED

[ECS]

... Lots of people involved with the suspects in my theory who were not French, this including some of the highest seats in American government. There were people in New Orleans and at Galveston Island who were not French...

So is this leading once again to a Champ 'd Asile French connection and the American political contacts of Joseph Bonaparte who visited his New Jersey estate?

 

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[bigscoop]

So is this leading once again to a Champ 'd Asile French connection and the American political contacts of Joseph Bonaparte who visited his New Jersey estate?

I just spoke to Tat yesterday and he'll be in Washington looking for a specific letter over the next couple of weeks. If he finds it then things should become a little clearer as it applies to your question.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I just spoke to Tat yesterday and he'll be in Washington looking for a specific letter over the next couple of weeks. If he finds it then things should become a little clearer as it applies to your question.

HH! Good Luck!

 

[ECS]

You're way too focused on "French". ...

Moi? I believe that you seem to interject the Bonaparte/ French connection as your main focus for the Beale tale.
... but then again, if it is a Bonaparte/French smuggling adventure, that makes the story in the Beale Papers a work of fiction.

 

[bigscoop]

... but then again, if it is a Bonaparte/French smuggling adventure, that makes the story in the Beale Papers a work of fiction.

Not sure we can arrive to that conclusion just yet. Given everything disclosed thus far....until we can determine just exactly why the United State Government was involved with these people and discussing payments for services rendered in 1829, through Richmond Virgina, then this door has to be left open. Remember also, that in 1884, just one year prior to the pamphlet's publication, all of this has also lead us to an alderman named "Thomas J. Beale" who registered to vote in Jackson Ward, Richmond Virgina. Extremely odd that all of the presented evidence would lead us to the only "exact" spelling of the main character offered in the Beale papers.

At this point, I'd be willing to bet that when the mailing addresses of certain letters are finally identified that some of them are going to have a point of origin that are closely related to Jackson Ward, Richmond. But we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[ECS]

Were any of these people involved in a buffalo hunt?
All I have been saying is once one leaves the Beale Paper story to "prove" the Beale story is real by events unrelated to the story put forth in the Beale Papers, this "outside" proof renders the Beale story as fiction.

 

[bigscoop]

Were any of these people involved in a buffalo hunt?
All I have been saying is once one leaves the Beale Paper story to "prove" the Beale story is real by events unrelated to the story put forth in the Beale Papers, this "outside" proof renders the Beale story as fiction.

Not leaving the Beale story at all. Quite the opposite.

 

[bigscoop]

Allow me to propose something to you, though I won't go into any detail just yet as to why I feel this could be the case. "If" there was a third party involved in all of this then that involvement began prior to the first deposit date of 1819. Hold this thought.....

Morriss was to wait for a period of ten years before opening the alleged box, this instruction being detailed to him in 1822, so we quickly assume that the ten year term was to end in 1832, or there about. But this could also easily be a wrong assumption, and here's why.

If there was an undisclosed third party involved in the transfers then this arrangement was also in place at the time of the first deposit, or in 1819, so any such arrangements between the original party and this possible unnamed third party interest may have required that actual ten year term in began in 1819 and not in 1822.

In 1829, "exactly" ten years from the date of first deposit, we have our suspects writing the highest seats in the land with inquiry about alleged promised payments for "prior" services rendered. Maul that over.....

 

[ECS]

... Maul that over.....

There is a lot of assumption in this speculation that still lack a direct connection to the Beale Papers, Robert Morriss, or James Beverly Ward.

 

[bigscoop]

There is a lot of assumption in this speculation that still lack a direct connection to the Beale Papers, Robert Morriss, or James Beverly Ward.

Perhaps, perhaps not. But there's absolutely no doubt that something involving big money was going on here so we'll just have to wait until we can determine exactly what that was before we can say one way or the other. All I'm presenting to you thus far are some "extremely strong" reasons to not slam the door closed on this possibility just yet. "Can't know for sure one way or the other until we do know for sure one way or the other."

 

[ECS]

Does this involve Jean Lafitte's 5th generation remark in his memoirs, and also the mention of staying in Charleston, SC, February 1823, with the Mortimer family then traveling to Baltimore and Richmond on business?

 

[bigscoop]

There are a lot of details in this theory that are just too numerous to put it all out here but suffice to say that it involves several individuals and "documented sources" that we are still researching, these sources even including documents that were seized by the British Secret Service and then shared with the United States. This clandestine enterprise was begun shortly after Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo and it was not underway without Madison's knowledge of its existence.

Galveston Island. Whenever I talk of this region everyone assumes that I'm referring solely to Laffite and those of Champ De Asile, which while true, is not the only reason why this location was so important. Laffite, the French exiles, these parties only represent the labor and necessary support and not the true conspirators of the enterprise being undertaken. Galveston Island represented the only remaining acceptable port that wasn't under the constant scrutiny of Government and Customs, etc. So when you think of Galveston Island think of it as that last and only port where goods of certain nature can be unloaded and then smuggled overland toward St. Louis and then east of the Mississippi.

Those jewels that were recovered in Switzerland for Joseph Bonaparte, it might surprise you to learn that this successful undertaking was not planned by Joseph but that it was conceived by someone else. This same very influential individual, in 1817, had a specific ship built and then sent to Galveston Island. So when we think of Laffite and the French exiles think of them only as trusted allies performing the required labor. And when you think of Galveston island think of it only for its vital and strategic location.

As for the source of the wealth in question. There are four possible sources that we know of, this alleged wealth most likely containing portions of all of them if not the total of just one? But make no mistake, the mounting evidence strongly suggest that there was "a lot" more going on at this location then history has stated and that huge wealth did enter this country through Galveston Island. But just exactly how involved all of this was is still unclear.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

There are a lot of details in this theory that are just too numerous to put it all out here but suffice to say that it involves several individuals and "documented sources" that we are still researching, these sources even including documents that were seized by the British Secret Service and then shared with the United States. This clandestine enterprise was begun shortly after Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo and it was not underway without Madison's knowledge of its existence.

Galveston Island. Whenever I talk of this region everyone assumes that I'm referring solely to Laffite and those of Champ De Asile, which while true, is not the only reason why this location was so important. Laffite, the French exiles, these parties only represent the labor and necessary support and not the true conspirators of the enterprise being undertaken. Galveston Island represented the only remaining acceptable port that wasn't under the constant scrutiny of Government and Customs, etc. So when you think of Galveston Island think of it as that last and only port where goods of certain nature can be unloaded and then smuggled overland toward St. Louis and then east of the Mississippi.

Those jewels that were recovered in Switzerland for Joseph Bonaparte, it might surprise you to learn that this successful undertaking was not planned by Joseph but that it was conceived by someone else. This same very influential individual, in 1817, had a specific ship built and then sent to Galveston Island. So when we think of Laffite and the French exiles think of them only as trusted allies performing the required labor. And when you think of Galveston island think of it only for its vital and strategic location.

As for the source of the wealth in question. There are four possible sources that we know of, this alleged wealth most likely containing portions of all of them if not the total of just one? But make no mistake, the mounting evidence strongly suggest that there was "a lot" more going on at this location then history has stated and that huge wealth did enter this country through Galveston Island. But just exactly how involved all of this was is still unclear.

NICE "bit" of unknown "history"...

 

[ECS]

... So when we think of Laffite and the French exiles think of them only as trusted allies performing the required labor...

Lafitte was not the "trusted ally" to the French exiles, as he betrayed the Lallemands, which did not sit well with either Joseph Bonaparte and Stephen Girard.

 

[bigscoop]

Lafitte was not the "trusted ally" to the French exiles, as he betrayed the Lallemands, which did not sit well with either Joseph Bonaparte and Stephen Girard.

You are wrong in this assumption. Even Girard and Joseph both refused Lallemand additional monies to continue Champ De Asile after the initial $4000 had been exhausted, so clearly they had lost confidence in the affair just as Laffite had. Not to mention that with the certain arrival of the Adams Onis Treaty these other individuals could see the writing on the wall. One also has to realize that Joseph completely washed his hands of the affair once the British had threatened the life of Napoleon should his rescue be attempted. So all of these people had different ideals and motives for their initial involvement at Galveston Island.

As for the subscription money we often hear referenced, this only amounted to about $15'000 and only after a lot of pressure had been applied to Lallemand did he then provide the required list of names so that this money could be distributed to the survivors of the affair, which it eventually was.

There was a lot of politics and individual interest involved that brought about certain complications but suffice to say that it just took Lallemand a little longer to see the writing on the wall. On all accounts, the Adams Onis Treaty brought everything to a defining halt as from this point forward there was no more disputed territory to settle upon.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

...and that girl, Julia Hancock, married William Clark, of the Lewis & Clark Expedition that started out from Fincastle.
Reckon William Clark was familiar with buffalo hunts and friendly native Americans.

I reckon... He ALSO wrote "coded" letters to Thomas Jefferson (Prez).

 

[ECS]

...

Galveston Island. Whenever I talk of this region everyone assumes that I'm referring solely to Laffite and those of Champ De Asile, which while true, is not the only reason why this location was so important... Galveston Island represented the only remaining acceptable port that wasn't under the constant scrutiny of Government and Customs, etc. So when you think of Galveston Island think of it as that last and only port where goods of certain nature can be unloaded and then smuggled overland toward St. Louis and then east of the Mississippi...

. This same very influential individual, in 1817, had a specific ship built and then sent to Galveston Island... when you think of Galveston island think of it only for its vital and strategic location... the mounting evidence strongly suggest that there was "a lot" more going on at this location then history has stated and that huge wealth did enter this country through Galveston Island...

Captain Jams Campbell and wife, Mary Sabinal Campbell's account of life and activities at Lafitte's Campeche Galveston-there is mention of a certain ship being built:
A Biographical Sketch of Captain James and Mary Sabinal Campbell

 

[bigscoop]

Captain Jams Campbell and wife, Mary Sabinal Campbell's account of life and activities at Lafitte's Campeche Galveston-there is mention of a certain ship being built:
A Biographical Sketch of Captain James and Mary Sabinal Campbell

That is a good read. Did you notice that account of Campbell returning with $100'000 and other merchandise? It wouldn't take too many of these returns to equal the Beale deposits. So no doubt, as owner of the vessels, that owner was reaping some heavy returns as long as his ships remained in service.

 

[ECS]

Captain James Campbell is mentioned involved with a gold distribution in Lafitte's memoirs:
"...I recommended to Mr Hall, MR CAMPBELL, Mr Sherman, and to those of Bolivar to keep our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places".
Questions that arise are -
Is Mr Sherman Mathew "Mexico" Sherman?
Who is Mr Hall?
Who are "those of Bolivar"?
Four names are mentioned, does that mean that there were four "indicated places"?
What say yea, Bigscoop?

 

[bigscoop]

Captain James Campbell is mentioned involved with a gold distribution in Lafitte's memoirs:
"...I recommended to Mr Hall, MR CAMPBELL, Mr Sherman, and to those of Bolivar to keep our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places".
Questions that arise are -
Is Mr Sherman Mathew "Mexico" Sherman?
Who is Mr Hall?
Who are "those of Bolivar"?
Four names are mentioned, does that mean that there were four "indicated places"?
What say yea, Bigscoop?

Arg! Odd you would bring this up, matey, as I was just discussing this very thing again on the phone this afternoon. I do believe that up to the present that I have now amassed enough information to grab hold of the general concept behind Laffite's affairs at Galveston Island. In short explanation it might be best to view these activities as that of a large corporation with lines of credit in the form of investors, much like a corporation of today with primary lenders and shareholders, if you will. Just as with the end of any corporation there are debts to be paid and the remaining assets/capital divided among the shareholders. Thus, "I recommended to Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, and those of Bolivar that we stick to our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places."

Isolation, this was Galveston Island, so what to do with all of the hard money that entered isolated port? This is where ledgers and accounting come into play, the numbers in these ledgers being held in a type of hard money trust so that lines of credit can be opened and your lenders/shareholders and distant business managers kept up to date on their potential returns and the businesses checks and balances, etc. So if we want to look at the activities at Galveston Island then, perhaps, we need to look at them as if they were the activities of a large and often illegally run corporation. This all leading up to "the promise to distribute the gold to the indicated places." Lenders, shareholders, business managers, etc., etc., etc.

In 1818, with the signing of the Adams Onis Treaty the writing was on the wall and the corporation was now on the verge of close, half of the corporation's assets, or the $476'000 referenced in the memoirs now sent back east to satisfy certain interest, the other half remaining with the corporation until all operations at Galveston Island ceased to exist, at this point the remaining capital also sent back east so it too could be distributed to the various lenders, shareholders, etc., etc., etc., many of these parties probably also having a list of resources that needed paid. I'm pretty certain this is how it all operated.