Dutchman's Caches

[Doc4261]

lol. I wondered if you meant to share so much. very interesting looking location. I will not be near there . your secret is safe with me.. and I could go for a cactus cooler right now. lolView attachment 1773643

Hmm. Don't look like right geology but Looks like a beautiful place to enjoy. Treasure hunting isn't for every one. Wife hates it but it makes me move. I love just prospecting, the looking and knowing around any corner of u put yourself in the right geology u could find something amazing. Have places all over. My best prospect is a an area so overlooked its disgusting. Have 2 essays showing gold silver and platinum. Dad found it taking a **** while looking a round He callsit the red nipple. Football field of red ore , not thick Bout 6 inches, but what is under it holds gold also not as much but have not tested how thick it is. Right on a fault line. So I'm guessing all the gold that eroded over the millions of years settled there and got some help from friction. Would love to do a core drill access as the fault. I'm sure I'll prob sell it one day. Don't even have it claimed since no one would go there. Save some cash till I can one day prove it out. Never forget geology. It's your best friend.

 

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[Eldo]

Makes me laugh more than a little when someone claims to be the one who has all the answers and their only pictures are Google earth images. Show an actual picture of the entrance and you might be able to convince people differently, however a half inch overhang on the mountain will create a shadow on Google earth.

Speak for yourself.

Had no problem convincing the Apache or the State.

Had no problem convincing Pinkerton, or Bob from Goldfield Ghost Town......so who were you again?

I only ask because you use the same generic answer as the other tools digging a trench wherever you want looking for "treasure".....lol

And because I have the 7 openings photographed (not one mine as you assume) with mining equipment and leftover goods that are still there from when 30 men went missing.....you know, the 30 men that are documented as being found buried in a shallow grave in the Valley....the one's on the official record

As far as why you would call me a liar is beyond me....maybe you think your comments are funny. Chuckle Chuckle.

Maybe YOU haven't seen anything but pictures for the last umpteen years of your own wandering.

Think about it, you have nothing to show and are contesting my proof and my research

www.facebook.com/SolvingBealePapers

I have extensive files on this "mystery".......

 

[Idahodutch]

Perhaps Wrong Thread?

You know when people try to tell me that such and such ridge line is the home to the Lost Dutchman I have to laugh a little.

One would think that there were be some sign of a mining operation that suddenly ended in a secret location when their men were killed, and that there would be remnants of their operations there with 30 miners.

That takes a lot of gear and equipment and the movement of it leaves a trail that never gets weathered.....they also leave behind clues that they were making mine entrances.

Like stone tablets with the number 5, 6, and 7 marking the entrances of the 18 locations they dug up, and wagons for their mule trains....leaving obvious signs if they were killed off suddenly.

View attachment 1773314
View attachment 1773315
View attachment 1773316

Eldo,
I've looked through this thread and am not seeing who you might be talking to. You didn't quote from a particular post and I am not recalling anywhere that someone said "such and such ridge line is home to the LDM".
Sounds like a case of folks getting their feathers ruffled over something that may just be a simple misunderstanding. I personally do not think that before you posted here, that anyone was trying to tell you anything. Did you actually read this thread before posting what you posted?

Maybe you should start a thread about your Stone Map findings. Sounds like you might be on to something there, but kind of off topic, and then to start a scene over it is not the best way to get folks to listen to you.
Just my humble opinion.
Sincerely, Idaho Dutch

 

[dredgernaut]

Hey dutch. Hard to get a couple guys together to hunt, when we can not even make it through a couple sentences without fighting. Now put those same fellas in the middle of nowhere . Its gonna go bad.
I think everybody has found it. Thats the big secret.. I found it too...lol

 

[Idahodutch]

Hey dutch. Hard to get a couple guys together to hunt, when we can not even make it through a couple sentences without fighting. Now put those same fellas in the middle of nowhere . Its gonna go bad.
I think everybody has found it. Thats the big secret.. I found it too...lol

lol . . . . well, one for sure. . . lots of folks are plenty passionate about their search findings. . . . . myself included .

 

[Doc4261]

lol . . . . well, one for sure. . . lots of folks are plenty passionate about their search findings. . . . . myself included .

That's for sure, I've got my spots as do most. There's so much to be found out there take any of the hundred clues and 50 maps. Everyone should stumble on a few with a lil research and followed by boots on the ground. Every story entices me on a new thought and how it could play in the bigger picture. Cuz there is a big picture. Everyone has there own goals tho. Gl to all that's for sure, for getting off your butts and living an adventure!!

 

[Mc4500]

Speak for yourself.

Had no problem convincing the Apache or the State.

Had no problem convincing Pinkerton, or Bob from Goldfield Ghost Town......so who were you again?

I only ask because you use the same generic answer as the other tools digging a trench wherever you want looking for "treasure".....lol

And because I have the 7 openings photographed (not one mine as you assume) with mining equipment and leftover goods that are still there from when 30 men went missing.....you know, the 30 men that are documented as being found buried in a shallow grave in the Valley....the one's on the official record

As far as why you would call me a liar is beyond me....maybe you think your comments are funny. Chuckle Chuckle.

Maybe YOU haven't seen anything but pictures for the last umpteen years of your own wandering.

Think about it, you have nothing to show and are contesting my proof and my research

www.facebook.com/SolvingBealePapers

I have extensive files on this "mystery".......

Ha ha ha ha! Oh wow! I couldn't care less about who you have convinced, or how right you think you are. I don't care at all!!

My point was simple. So many people on here post a Google earth picture and say that it's something, whatever you want to claim. My point is that you have to get out there and take actual pictures of the site and verify it.

Every other week someone on here is claiming that they are the only ones that have found something, and the only proof that they have is a Google earth picture. It will take a lot more to convince someone than that.

At least this thread was started with Idahodutch having some humility and saying "hey look at this. What do you guys think".

 

[azdave35]

Ha ha ha ha! Oh wow! I couldn't care less about who you have convinced, or how right you think you are. I don't care at all!!

My point was simple. So many people on here post a Google earth picture and say that it's something, whatever you want to claim. My point is that you have to get out there and take actual pictures of the site and verify it.

Every other week someone on here is claiming that they are the only ones that have found something, and the only proof that they have is a Google earth picture. It will take a lot more to convince someone than that.

At least this thread was started with Idahodutch having some humility and saying "hey look at this. What do you guys think".

if you guys are using the stone maps as a guide...you are in for a rude awakening

 

[Mc4500]

if you guys are using the stone maps as a guide...you are in for a rude awakening

Personally, I am not.

 

[Idahodutch]

It's so nice to see everybody getting along. I'd suggest we all go out for a drink, but I don't know if it would calm things down or add fuel to the fire. It's Friday night, supposed to be having a good time

 

[JohnWhite]

if you guys are using the stone maps as a guide...you are in for a rude awakening

I've had one of those Dave...I've also had a sudden realization...lol

Ed T

 

[dredgernaut]

hey Dave . I was following the stones as my guide. and i have had several rude awakenings. I hiked a long ways. went to sleep. when I woke up it was 30 degrees. ice in my tent on ceiling from my breathe. took til noon before I started feeling better. ice on the water in the creek. another time while asleep I woke to some animal rooting around the dry creek bed 10 ft. away, making all kinds of noise, i don't know what it was. kinda scary. almost shot a hole right thru my tent.. lol. plus other weird or spooky nights with minimal sleep.
you are correct those were seriously rude awakenings. lol..is that what you meant.

 

[azdave35]

hey Dave . I was following the stones as my guide. and i have had several rude awakenings. I hiked a long ways. went to sleep. when I woke up it was 30 degrees. ice in my tent on ceiling from my breathe. took til noon before I started feeling better. ice on the water in the creek. another time while asleep I woke to some animal rooting around the dry creek bed 10 ft. away, making all kinds of noise, i don't know what it was. kinda scary. almost shot a hole right thru my tent.. lol. plus other weird or spooky nights with minimal sleep.
you are correct those were seriously rude awakenings. lol..is that what you meant.

actually what i meant is that travis carved those stones..they wern't carved by mexicans or spaniards..all of travis's descendants agree he did..if you are following those stones to lead you to a mine or treasure that is where the rude awakening comes in

 

[Idahodutch]

derdgernaut,
I gotta laugh. . . On the last trip in, there were 4 of us, early the first morning . . . Not quite dawn, something bumped me through my tent. My sleeping bag had pressed against the side of the tent and I guess whatever kind of animal that was, decided to see what the lump in the side of the tent was. It was on the second bump that I realized the situation. This is the part that make me laugh. My reaction was first . . Get real big eyes. . I think, ok what kind animal could this be? It's big enough to make me move a little just by nudging me with its nose. So I made loud growling noises, banging sides of tent , grabbed my gun and listened. I still hadn't looked out yet. When I did, nothing around, no tracks that I could see. Never did figure out what it was. It never made more than kind of a sniff sound, that I heard anyway. Funny the way we act when we get spooked. If I was alone it might have more in thought every night after that, but being part of a group just isn't as spooky.

 

[dredgernaut]

then you imagine a monster and its only a mouse. lol. I know it don't take much to get a guys mind wandering.. usually I just start crying real loud . lol . not really(or maybe)...

 

[Idahodutch]

then you imagine a monster and its only a mouse. lol. I know it don't take much to get a guys mind wandering.. usually I just start crying real loud . lol . not really(or maybe)...

A guy doesn't even realize how amped up he gets when spooked, until he sees how long it takes to calm back down. Usually still quickly turning to look at every little odd sound and trying to shake it off . . lol

 

[dredgernaut]

ya dave. i know what you meant. I was kidding. I heard it all also. most people know its a 50/50 split in the belief of the stones. and I am sorry for all the losses caused by them. but people can believe what they want. what you believe does not and should not supersede ones personal beliefs in the stones. my question is : if the stone maps are fake, the LDM clues are all embellished or fabricated outright, Then perhaps all treasure hunters should give up on the superstitions. Right ? because nothing of real value has been discovered in quite some time. And we are all dreamers. I think even if you believe in snipes and you go look for them . you do not stand a better chance at finding them; than if you get out there looking. you might just stumble across something else in your search. and you made it out into a beautiful and dangerous area. for some people the adventure of looking is almost enough. Or perhaps you can give me some insight onto which map or clue is real and I will give it a chance. the facts can not be proven wrong or correct at this point. we should all enjoy our hunts where ever they are. keep your conviction in check, and hope for the best.. or stay home.. I.M.O. sorry this is not meant as an attack . i am just saying thanks for telling us all how we are all wasting our time... lol
what is it that AZDave hunts. does you have a secret map, go by clues, use a already known map. do you follow geology and prospect. what do you hunt i guess is what i am asking. thanks J

 

[Idahodutch]

The Old LDM 101 Clues List

Here is a list of 101 Dutchman clues that was posted by SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN on a thread here back in 2010, called "The 2 Soldiers"; Post #8.

Re: The Two Soldiers



The Lost Dutchman Mine

101 Clues !

1) There are three big peaks above the mine to the west. (Bark to Spangler)

2) A north running canyon. (Waltz to Petrasch)

3) The north running canyon is filled with potholes. (Gassler)

4) There is a stone wall in a shelving cave near the mine. (Mitchell)

5) The rays of the setting sun will shine into the tunnel mouth when the mine is open. (Mitchell)

6) The vein runs 400 feet down the mountainside. (Waltz)

7) Look for the shadow of Weavers Needle at 4 pm during the winter solstice. (Various)

8) No cowboy will find my mine. (Waltz)

9) Near the head of the gulch is an old stone cabin foundation directly opposite the mine. (Mitchell)

10) The trail is monumented with two stones, one on top of the other. (Bark)

11) Its high up, yet you have got to go down. (Deering to Chunning)

12) Look for 3 boulders shaped like wickiups high up on the side of a mountain. (Apache woman to Scholey)

13) Theres a spirit that sleeps near the mine 4 hours a day. (Apache Jack)

14) A funnel-shaped pit (Various)

15) There is a waterfall in the vicinity. (Robert Jacobs)

16) Say John, you have to go through a hole. (Deering to Chunning)

17) There is a symbol near the mine that contains a triangle, circle and crescent. (Diaz)

18) I marked the place with a frying pan placed on the middle peak. (Waltz to Petrasch)

19) There is a double pack horse trail that leads right up to the tunnel. (Herman Petrasch)

20) One needs to climb up about 40 feet to see Weavers Needle to the south. (Waltz)

21) Above the mine was a grassy ridge where we could leave the animals. (Waltz)

22) There is a cross cut into the side of the ravine above the mine. (Robert Jacobs)

23) Waltz covered the mine. He was afraid someone would notice it from the trail below or on the ridge across. (Aylor)

24) The shaft was 75 feet deep made in the Mexican style with flailing walls. (Bicknell)

25) Mine is on a well-terraced hill. Terraced like rice-paddies. (Peck)

26) Dutchman is 69 steps back and down in a ravine only about 50' wide and 200' long shaped like a "Y". (Williams)

27) Waltzs mine had an opening no bigger than a barrel. (Peck)

28) Two pits at the mine about 75 feet deep and a like distance across the top . (Bark)

29) Near the mine, perhaps covering the entrance, is a square rock with one elongated corner. (Peck)

30) Look for a triangle of Rocks. (Jacobs)

31) Just to one side of the mine is a square rock waist-high. (Williams)

32) The gravestone was located 250-300 feet due south of the mine itself and designated a specific crevasse between large boulders that one has to pass to locate the mine. (Petrasch to Synbad)

33) Three stones by themselves are the key to the mine. (Flores)

34) There is a line between two peaks that bisect the shaft. (B Holmes)

35) The hole is small and high up. (Yocum to Morrow)

36) The mine is a rat hole. (Walter Dixon to Dwyer)

37) Mine is on a little knob about 50 feet high at the very end of a peninsula. On this hill is a pile of rocksabout 10 feet away from the opening. (Erwin Ruth to Richard Peck)

38) The soldiers reported the mine as being a very small open cut or trench. (Chuck Aylor)

39) Go up out of a brushy canyon, over a flat and down into a pit. (Al Morrow)

40) Cave near headwaters. Needed rope to get in. (Geronimos great-grand daughter)

41) Tunnel opens onto a caynon floor. (Erwin Ruth)

42) When you find the mine you will be lying on your belly like everyone else who was ever there. (Smitty to Richard Peck)

43) All the old landmarks are still there. You can almost peek into the mine where the entrance has settled. The cave of hidden gold. (San Carlos Apaches 1965)

44) Dutchman was getting gold from a creek bed. There was a shaft in the bottom of the wash. (Clay Worst to Richard Peck)

45) Waltz described his mine as being high up, in an arroyo, and hidden by the natural contours of the land. From over the top of a low ridge you could see down the far side where there was a small clearing, an open hole and a mine dump. (Herman Petrasch)

46) The mine is so cunningly concealed that one could walk within a few feet and miss it. (Waltz)

47) On the steep slope 100 feet above them they spied two Indians breaking rock. (Waltz to Julia Thomas)

48) I had to climb up a small hill from the mine entrance to see the Needle. (Waltz)

49) Its less than two miles from Weavers Needle toward the Salt River. (Phipps to Storm)

50) Weavers Needle was nearby in plain sight. (Apache boys to Barry Storm)

51) Weavers Needle, Four Peaks, a river and the horses head could be seen from the mine. (Al Morrow)

52) The mine was on a twelve foot high ledge, the mine was an open hole and the mine was on the apex of a ridge.

53) The mine is close to a cave and is high up on a ledge. Petrasch spent years searching the canyons looking for a cave or an opening high up. (Richard Peck)

54) Waltz mine is on a twelve foot high shelf. (Synbad)

55) Near the mine is a face that looks right at the mine. (Storm)

56) A Sphinx overhangs and dominates the mine area. (John Reed)

57) Waltz told of a natural stone face sitting upon the end of a canyon below his mine. (Storm)

58) Up above the mine was a cliff like a horses head with one ear laid back. (Storm)

59) The mine was in a northerly direction from a sharp peak. (Aaron Mason)

60) The mine is right out in the open,. You could walk right over it and not know you were there. (John Spangler)

61) About 20 steps above a spring is the Dutchmans mine. ( Williams)

62) Mine is located near three natural water tanks in a canyon, one below the other, a short distance from the mine. (Indian to B Holmes)

63) Mine is near the head of a gulch. There is a small spring there with sufficient water for household use. (Aylor)

64) 39 steps to agua. 69 stepd to the mine. (Ruths Eagle Head Map)

65) Mine is in a draw that is well hidden. (Jacobs)

66) The mine lies in the middle of two oblong outcrops that run north south and are above the waterfall. (Stevens)

67) The mine is located in a ravine on the side of a canyon wall. (Conatser)

68) In a steep climbing arroyo high on a mountainside. (Morrow)

69) The mine is in a cave, but the entrance is sealed. (Diaz)

70) Gold buried in a cave in the Superstitions. (Geronimo to soldier at Ft Sill)

71) Indians always spoke about a cave. Mention the mine and they would say, no, the cave. Cave at base of cliff in a little canyon. (Peck)

72) Ruth described the junction of two canyons, one running north south flanked by high cliffs on either side. The other was brushy and came in from the east. Above this canyon junction Ruth expected to find a Spanish marker which would show him the trail. (Storm)

73) If you pass the three red hills you have gone too far. (Waltz)

74) There is a tunnel on the side of the hill and a pit above past the three red hills. (John Kochera)

75) The mine is above a brushy boulder choked little canyon. (Walter Gassler)



76) Trail goes up past a long draw from west end of the south side of the range, down past a cliff into a canyon leading to the river. Take the first right hand canyon out on a flat area, then climb to the pit. (John Walker)

77) Mine is on a steep slope under the lip of a cliff. (Tommy Wise)

78) Mine was on a hillside. (Sims Ely)

79) The logs covering the shaft were set at an angle to conform to the slope of the terrain. (Walter Dixon)

80) The ruins of the rock house did not have a roof. (Weiss)

81) There are four spires above the mine, three tall ones and one smaller. (Spangler)

82) The tunnel entrance is supposed to be shaped like a bell. (Waltz to Thomas)

83) You cant approach the mine from above or below, but have to enter from the side. (Waltz)

84) No miner will find my mine. (Waltz)

85) Theres a trick in the trail. You have to go through a hole. (Joe Deering)

86) I placed a monument near the mine and then placed four similar monuments in the canyon below. (Deering to Chunning)

87) You have to work your way down a water crevasse. The approach to the mine is dangerous. (Weiser)

88)There was a dangerous foot path down to the mine. (Peralta)

89) The area where the mine was located was all broken up. (Ballesteros)

90) 200 feet across from the cave. (Adolph Ruth)

91) Deering said the hole you go thru was "in a rock". (Chunning to Barkley)

92) Mine was a volcanic vent . (Sims Ely)

93) Salazars survey objective was to find a cave with a wall and three red hills. (Livingston)

94) One went down on a rope or ladder, the other two stayed up above. (Granillo)

95) When asked about landmarks from the mine entrance Brownie Holmes hesitated and said "You will see nothing. Only space."

96) The Mexicans always posted a sentry in a brushy canyon below the mine. He could not see, but could always hear, the miners.

97) There was a little bit of brush on the slope above the mine. (Reed)

98) We will throw a stick of dynamite into the opening because of the trap. (B Holmes)

99) Once the rock house was found one would go back down the canyon checking the west side of the canyon wall. Once he found the ___________ he would then find the ___________ and .......................

100) Peter thats a real sensitive subject. (Roberts to Esposito)
101) If someone is surreptitiously working the Lost Dutchman Mine. (Mr. Jim Hatt)

 

[Idahodutch]

I gotta say,
After reading back through this list of clues, that I can now recall deciding that a bunch of these needed to be tossed in the garbage. But which ones?
So I need to be honest with myself, that I am guilty of picking and choosing which clues I went by in my search for the ravine location. It is interesting the things we choose to dismiss, and why.
Everyone's final list that they decide to go by... they're probably all different.
I still find it very interesting that the ones I went by have led me to the ravine that they did. Is it the correct ravine? . . . . who knows.

 

[dredgernaut]

that's a lot of people saying a lot of clues , but waltz was the only person found gold, so those are clues to their personal suspicions then right. because they did not find his gold, nor are they all leading to the same spot most likely . like today , if we each gave a clue or 2 to a location we believe to be the spot. we would have a list of clues to different locations , and usually no measurable gold too show at any of them . even though we all think we found something. but those clues get put together over time and then the truths are lost.. I don't trust verbal clues , waltz did not write the list so I don't use it.. too much conjecture.
the stones are a whole new headache. I don't know or think the stones lead to the ldm . because I think they came first. maybe waltz got lucky and stumbled upon it, but I think the stone maps are older. and either lead to a mine or mines or even a cache. but I know nothing. I just choose to follow my own craziness.. lol.
maybe travis went a little crazy with it all. I mean he searched a long time himself. maybe he could not let go and started carving stones because of failing the hunt. his own craziness . maybe his family knows how he struggled to solve them, cut him some slack when he started carving himself. back then it was harmless. now today everybody thinks he is a fraud. He was actually the first hunter on record. if his family admits it now, its because for 70 years people have bugged them nonstop, dragged their name thru the mud. so they admitted it was fake so they would be left alone ...but again I don't know anything..
I think they hold a real message, don't care who made them. because nobody really knows . I enjoy my hunt. I hope you all do also. I.M.O. anyways.