Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

from book 2 of the crawford biography one page 42.

On the back of this picture Mr. Barnett wrote: “8-29-76 taken by Robert G. Barnett Casi 7 inside 100 foot tunnel showing a room carved to the left of the tunnel.

 

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[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

from book 2 of the crawford biography one page 42.

On the back of this picture Mr. Barnett wrote: “8-29-76 taken by Robert G. Barnett Casi I main tunnel left wing and buried shaft to lower tunnels; This was where the Dutchman built a wall concealing his stash --- later removed by H. G. Burns.”

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

from book 2 of the crawford biography one page 42.

On the back of this picture Mr. Barnett wrote: “8-29-76 taken by Robert G. Barnett Casi I showing the apparatus Henry G. Burns used in the 50’s to remove the Dutchman’s stash; It is narrow and sat on a bicycle wheel to make it easier to move heavy sacks.”

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

henry burns found 1 of the 3 dutchman caches in the area of weavers needle. he found it in bark’s draw. he moved it to the burns ranch. now we have to put 2 and 2 together. the squaw took the dutchman to the thunder grounds. she showed him the thunder stones, which are the holy stones, and the gold. he took some of the holy stones and all the gold he could pack on his mule. on the way home or to wherever they go thru bark’s draw. at the back of an old spanish/mexican or peralta tunnel he hides a cache and builds a false wall to conceal it. in that cache there may have been one or more holy stones (thundering stones). burns would have found these holy stones along with the gold. he would have moved these holy stones (thundering stones) to his ranch along with the gold.

doing another addition of 2 and 2. according to a newspaper article by david hinchliffe the apache Indians traded with old man burns. then next time the Indians came to trade with burns they one or more of them would have heard the thundering, which are the voices, from the thunder stones, which are the holy stones. this explains why in david’s article he says the indians wanted to show burns a strange place they thought had something to do with white people. this strange place being the thunder grounds. the very place the squaw had taken the dutchman. also remember the second bob ward expedition crossed the ancient trail. this may have been very close to the thunder ground. because it was there chuck heard the thundering voice of the deity for the first time. burns ended up with the stockpile of holy stones because either the indians brought them to him for trade or they took him to the thunder ground. the indians most certainly would have told burns they could hear thundering (voices) coming from the stones. remember, according to david’s newspaper article burns had been kidnapped by the indians when he was a child. so he may have heard rumors about the thundering stones when he was a child. and remember burns was a treasure hunter and had been in WWI. so a treasure hunter was in germany the home of the german grail legend of the holy stones. so there’s every reason to believe burns know exactly what he had. this contray to what ralph henderson said in his article but remember ralph is one of the people searching for the deity stone.

i heard a rumor someone tried to burn down the burns treasure tree. and that rick gwynne, james whitehead, emory taylor and beryl nicholas retrieved the treasure tree. it had been broken into pieces. hsi put the pieces together like a jigsaw puzzle. while doing this it a symbol was discovered impressed into the underside of a limb that had pointed directly at the burns well. this symbol is that of the german grail quest. if hoops has a picture of this perhaps he will show us.

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

I am a bit surprised that this bit of propaganda has gone silent.

I have been told, by a trusted source, that "the Holy Stones are nothing more than banded amethyst found in the Mineral Mountains, more than likely the Raymert Mine." It's a good story though.

Joe Ribaudo

i've been told by a TRUSTED SOURCE that all religion is FAKE, and all churchgoers are worshiping the devil. i must say it's the absolute TRUTH because a trused source SAID SO! not because any documentation was given. man, cactusjumper, your guy couldn't enve get pictures of the right spot (where rick gwynne and hsi dug) and you want everyone to accept any BS you throw out jsut because a trusted source said so without any documentation what-so-ever .... yep, them trused sources give out nothing but the truth and anyone who doesn't believe it's the truth is just STUPID! so say cactusjumper.

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

All

those reading the posts here should already know the black/purple/white stones are nothing important unless they have been with the deity stone which turns them into holy stones as a magnet turns iron into a magnet. so it's certain cactusjumper's trused source hasn't read the posts. had he read the posts he would have know the source of the black/purple/white stones is just as unimportant as the stones themselves. it's only when they've been with the deity stone that they become holy stones. but like i said, a trused source told me all religion is fake and all churchgoers worship the devil so i must believe it just because the trusted source told me so.

ipcress

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

I am a bit surprised that this bit of propaganda has gone silent.

I have been told, by a trusted source, that "the Holy Stones are nothing more than banded amethyst found in the Mineral Mountains, more than likely the Raymert Mine." It's a good story though.

Joe Ribaudo

i've been told by a TRUSTED SOURCE that all religion is FAKE, and all churchgoers are worshiping the devil. i must say it's the absolute TRUTH because a trused source SAID SO! not because any documentation was given. man, cactusjumper, your guy couldn't enve get pictures of the right spot (where rick gwynne and hsi dug) and you want everyone to accept any BS you throw out jsut because a trusted source said so without any documentation what-so-ever .... yep, them trused sources give out nothing but the truth and anyone who doesn't believe it's the truth is just STUPID! so say cactusjumper.

ipcress,

Many of the people who post here know me personally, as well as Dave. As sources, we have a track record.....good or bad, depending on who you talk to.
They can make up there own minds as to my reliability as a "far from the scene" source.

You are an unknown, feeding us some pretty wild "facts", without the courage to sign your name to your posts. Most old timers in this game are pretty unimpressed with your rehashing information from Crawford's old girlfriend's site. That stuff is old news.

The rest of the "Holy Stones" stuff requires a vivid imagination to accept as anything approaching fact. On the other hand, it's one heck of a story. Probably another book flopping around in there.

What's a "trused" source. Is this another naked story?

Joe Ribaudo

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

ALL

one person posting here is insinuating that just because he puts his name on his post he is right and everyone else is wrong. this person insinuates that even though he does not have any supporting facts and does not have any supporting documentation he must be believed simply because he put his name on it. i would hope that the readers of these post are smart enough to know that this particular person is not right simply because he put his name on it. i would also hope the readers are smart enough to know this particular person is not to be believed without supporting facts and documentation simply because he put his name on it.

as for whether or not cactusjumer and dave are bad or reliable as sources on this particular topic we can check. if they had read the post they would have known the source of the black/purple/white stones is of no importance. so i’d have to say they are bad, not reliable. they posted pictures of the wrong spot. it’s not where rick gwynne and holy stones inc dug. so i’d have to say they are bad, not reliable. they did not correctly interpret the german grail quest symbol as used by holy stones inc. so i’d have to say they are bad, not reliable. but to hear cactusjumper tell it we must believe him and dave are good, reliable source simply because cactusjumper put his name on it. i would hope the readers are not foolish enough to believe that.

speaking of putting a name on it, who was cactusjumper’s trusted source? guess what, no name was given. so what cactusjumper is saying is that we all MUST put a name on it or we are NOT to be believed, but he doesn't have to name his source.

cactusjumper asked “What’s a trusted source.” i will answer that.

a trusted source is one who gives supporting facts and documentation, and reads the posts, and takes pictures of the right spot, and correctly interprets the symbol, thereby proving that he or she can be trusted as a source. something which cactusjumper and dave did not do. so i consider them to be bad, unreliable sources on this particular topic.

as to cactusjumper’s track record and what is flopping around in here. i would remind everybody that when someone refuses to take cactusjumper’s crap and stands up for him or herself, cactusjumper contacts the moderator and gets them banned. that’s his track record and exactly what’s flopping around in here. nobody can challenge him because he put his name on it and that makes him right and you wrong. he doesn’t have to give any facts supported by any documentation.

in my posts i named my sources and my documentation. for example i named david hincliffe’s newspaper article, i named the crawford biography, giving the page number and copies of the documents, i named anne c rue’s article, which in itself has a reference section of over 20 items documenting her article. but i forgot. cactusjumper and dave don’t have to give any supporting facts or documents, they don’t have to read the post, they don’t have to take pictures of the right place, they don’t have to correctly interpret the symbol, they only have to put their name to their post and that makes them right and everybody else wrong.

i did some checking. i searched on the internet. i consulted my small library of 26 books on the superstitions and dutchman, which includes the book by phil reinhardt and rick gwynne. i was not able to find a single instance where it was specifically stated that phil, a director of the superstition museum, is one of the people searching for the deity stone, and that gregory davis of the historical society has the 1 hour and 45 minute tape (and whole crawford archive), and that the museum has motive because they could sell the deity stone and have money for improvements and additions, with these three facts being a possible motive for phil impersonating chuck’s son to get in to see chuck in order to get chuck’s will changed so that these very same three (phil, gregory, and museum) became the ones who benefit from the new crawford will. so cactusjumper’s statement that this possible motive for the actions of phil and the museum was just “rehashing information” is not correct. the one and only place i was able to find this apparent conspiracy by phil and the superstition museum stated is right here at this forum, and nowhere else.

i would suggest that the only thing that “requires a vivid imagination” are post by a person who doesn’t give any supporting facts or documentation, who doesn’t read the post, who doesn’t take pictures of the right place, who doesn’t correctly interpret the symbol, and who absolutely insists he be believed simply because he puts his name to it. yes my friend’s that’s what “requires a vivid imagination” around here.

it’s just too bad that cactusjumper has such a superiority complex that he believes he can bamboozle the readers without any supporting facts or documentation because his putting his name to it is all that’s required. rather than being involved is a contest of wills, commonly called a pissing contest, with cactusjumper, which he started with his last post, i’d rather continue discussing this particular topic without the contest of wills. and that’s exactly what i want to do.

ipcress

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

crawford supposedly claimed one had to be a high spiritualist of 72 degrees in order to hear the voices from a holy stone. i've never heard of a 72 degree spiritualst. in numerology 72 is 7+2=9. that's the original number of members of the knights templar and members of holy stones inc. is the 72 supposed to be religious or masonic? or something else? i looked on the internet at http://www.ridingthebeast.com/numbers/nu72.php and found this info.

The name of God is composed of 72 letters according to the cabalistic tradition. It comes from the mystical text (called Schemamphorash) of the Exodus, chapter 14 verses 19, 20 and 21 of which each one is composed of 72 letters in the original Hebraic text. It is this ineffable name of God whom murmured the great priest in the middle of the shouts of the crowd. It was replaced later by the sacred named, YHWH, than cabalists pronounce by spelling them one after the other: Yod, He, Waw, He. It is also by extraction and transposition of the three verses of the Schemamphorash that cabalists deduce the names of the 72 spirits (or angels) of the Cabal which they call the "explained divine name".

The 72 Jewish translators (six of each tribe) that Ptolemy II, king of Egypt (283-246 before J.-C.), asked to Eleazar, great priest of Jerusalem, to send him to translate into Greek the books of Moses, written in Hebrew, for his library in Alexandria. It is the oldest Greek version of the Old Testament written in Hebrew. It is designated under the name of Septuagin because according to a legend these 72 translators would have produced separately the same translation without consulting each other and this in 72 days. This translation is recognized officially by the Church as well as the Vulgate. Note that according to others sources, it would be rather 70 translators, and not 72, from where the term of Septuagin.

In the Gospel according to Philip and in the Gospel of the childhood of Jesus, it is written that one day, while he was youth, Jesus entered in the dyeing of Levi. He took 72 colors and threw them in the cauldron. Then Levi was in anger, but Jesus "take out them all white and tells: 'It is thus indeed that the Son of the Man is come as dyer'".

The 72 disciples sent by Jesus. (Lk 10,1)

The 70 ancients accompanying Moses that received an outpouring of the spirit, plus the 2 absent ones which had remained in the camp, Eldad and Medad. (Nb 11,25-26)

The 72 races resulting from Noah. They are enumerated in chapter 10 of the Genesis. There are fifteen descendants by Japhet, thirty by Cham, twenty-seven by Sem. The list is arbitrary since the descendants of Peleg are not taken into account, and that the fathers are counted at the same time that their sons.

The 72 languages confused to the Tower of Babel.

what does this all mean? is there some secret order spiritual or masonic that we don't know about that uses 72 degrees?

in the book i got called the knights templar in the new world by mann, i found that the seal of solomon is important to masonic orders. it's pictured on page 113, and it contains 72 right angles. is each of the 72 right angles supposed to represent a piece of information the spiritualist is to know? on page 125 it says 72 is part of sacred geometry, and is the basis for constructing a pentagram because it's the base angle. it says 72 is one of the numbers used to express the order and balance of nature. this reminds me of the two interlocking circles and the balance bar representing balance between the spiritual and material worlds. but it also says the number 72 is a number of the devil and satan. it's confusing. i wonder what crawford meant by a 72 degree spiritualist.

 

[somehiker]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Maybe thats the title they give you when your all outa virgins.......SH.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

ipcress,

"in the book i got called the knights templar in the new world by mann..."

Would it be safe to assume that you know Mann's book is fiction? That is much like you quoting Chuck Crawford's stories, which were most likely products of the hallucinations brought on by the many pain killers he was taking......Oxycontin and Methadone being just two. As I recall the story, some woman was dipping into those pain killers. Seems to me it's just a short step from there to nude sunbathing in the Superstitions.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[ET]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Mr. Ipcress

In response to you email I decided to post my reply here at the website forum you indicated to make sure I am not misquoted.

I was contacted almost two years ago by a Kristiana Neuttson. I am not sure I am spelling her name correctly. She is of German decent. I met her only once. She said very little of herself. She mentioned her father, mother, and grandfather. All of whom have passed away. Her father was in real estate and passed away recently of a heart attack. She is his only child and he always wanted a boy. I think she joined the service to please him. Her mother died of breast cancer when Kristiana was a child. She inherited from both her father and grandfather, who was in the import - export business, but I am not sure if it was here or in Germany. She does not work. Exactly how much money she has I do not know. I would only be guessing --- in the neighborhood of 10 million or so. She is blond, gray-blue eyes, 5’ 10’’ (about), 115 lbs (about, I am not a good judge of weight), 25 years old (about), and no wedding ring. She is beautiful. But it appeared to me that she was trying to hid her exact figure and weight by the clothes she wore.

She inquired about Chuck Crawford, Bob Ward, and Rick Gwynne. I gave her Rick’s telephone number and home address. I asked Rick if she had contacted him and he said no. But maybe he just did not want to tell me she had. Treasure hunters are secretive people. I am not a treasure hunter. I am Chuck Crawford’s official biographer, and my involvement in a mining claim at the Burns Ranch was for research. HSI has never issued any stock. So, of course, you can not buy any. For a corporation, the issuing of stock is up to the BOD (board of directors) as to when to issue, how much to issue, and price. The AOI (articles of incorporation) simply states the max amount that the BOD can issue if they so decide. The AOI lists the business endeavors of HSI , but at this time there is nothing for sale. So, of course, there is nothing for you to buy. No you may not buy a copy of my copy of the Crawford Archive. You will have to contact Gregory Davis of the Superstition Mountain Historical Society and Museum to view his copy of the Crawford Archive. Mr. Davis, Mr. Reinhardt, and the Museum have no respect for Crawford what-so-ever and the Crawford Archive may have in fact been tossed in the trash. I do not know. You will have to contact Mr. Davis.

From comments made by Kristiana Neuttson I gathered, that while growing up, she spent part of each year here in America and part in Germany with her grandfather. They have a different attitude toward nudity in Europe then we have here. But I can assure you Darlene Rushton is not the one your referring to as having done sunbathing in the Superstition Mountains. Darlene is good with a gun, yes, but the person your describing as having been in the military, trained in infiltration, and surveillance, and who has an interest in Chuck Crawford and Bob Ward would have to be Kristiana Neuttson --- if that is her real name; she could have told me any name she wanted … how would I know if it's her name or not.

The person your describing as having been into Crawford’s medication is definitely Darlene. The person your calling Ann C. Rue lives in the same neighborhood (or very close to) where Darlene lives. Ann C. Rue is not her real name, and I do not know her real name. Yes I have seen naked pictures of her. I would not doubt she and Darlene are in cahoots.

I have never been on secret missions to Egypt, Switzerland, or Germany, and I do not know and have never met a German man going by the name bigdreamer.

Mogens Keihn and Chuck Crawford were both friends of a woman named Pat Henry, who lived in Queen Valley from 1981 until her death this last summer (2010). Crawford had an affair with her in 2001 - 2202. She was the head of the block watch in Queen Valley, and a republican, and he was running for sheriff. The man she lived with, Ray Truxal, died in 2001. Ray and Pat had prior dealings with Crawford. They bought some gold coins, dollar coins, from the 1800s, from Crawford. They were part of a cache Crawford had found. The affair ended badly. Crawford had secretly taken a picture of Pat as she gave him oral sex. He showed it to other people and she found out about it. She threatened to kill him. I was never introduced to Mogens Keihn.

At the time Crawford made the “Messenger of God” video your referring to as the one hour and forty-five minute video, he was not on any pain medication. He made the “Messenger of God” video on July 4, 2002, during the time he was having the affair with Pat. He was not using pain medications until 2005. Someone is giving you bad information. My guess would be Phil Reinhardt, or someone getting information from Phil. It is an absurd joke that Phil is to promote Crawford’s legacy. Phil detested Crawford and belittled him every chance he got, and believed the Crawford Archive was excellent "garbage material". It would not surprise me if the Crawford Archive had been tossed in the trash. Like I said, you will have to contact Mr. Davis about that.

As for Phil looking for the deity stone, it would not surprise me one bit. Phil was not even going to tell people it was Crawford’s aerial photograph he used for his book and so called discovery. I was working on the Crawford biography at the time, and when I found out what Phil was doing I made sure to mention it (that Phil used Crawford's areial photograph) to everybody I interviewed, and to Rick Gwynne. It was only after Phil found out what I was saying that he noted in his book that it was Crawford’s aerial photograph. Of course, Phil did not mention the fact that Crawford and Bobby Webb had already used the aerial photography to locate a discovery.

Yes, Phil did impersonate Crawford’s son, and he even admitted it in probate court. Yes, Phi then got Crawford to change his will. Yes, Crawford’s estate went to Phil, Mr. Davis and the Superstition Mountain Museum. The “motive” as you state it is quite obviously correct. However, I would not go so far as to say Mr. Davis (or the Museum) know Phil was going to impersonate Crawford’s son. I believe Phil did that all on his own.

Yes, I did hear that Rick Gwynne was the one who found the skeletal remains of the three missing hikers. I was told he appeared on one of the News shows, but I did not see it. No, as President of HSI I did not order Rick to shoot to kill anyone. If Rick did anything, he did it on his own or with his partner Phil Reinhardt. You would have to ask them, not me.

I hope I have answered all your questions.

Use this link and look at the still picture from the video, and you will see the date the video was made. It is three years before Crawford was on pain medication.
http://www.trilogy.threethirteens.com/trilogywebsites/TheDeity/c1/TheDeity1.html

Emory Taylor

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

I've, pretty much, been a angel all of my life. Makes me wonder what the rest of you have done to deserve this.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

"pretty much" ...lol

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Angel from whom joe?

snicker

Don Jose de La Mancha
"I exist to Live, not live to exist"

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

E.T, You posted--> I did hear that Rick Gwynne was the one who found the skeletal remains of the three missing hikers.
**************
Can you elaborate on this ?

Don Jose de La Mancha
"I exist to Live, not live to exist"

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

E.T, You posted--> I did hear that Rick Gwynne was the one who found the skeletal remains of the three missing hikers.
**************
Can you elaborate on this ?

Don Jose de La Mancha
"I exist to Live, not live to exist"

RDT - despite the rumors and speculation surrounding the finding of 2 skeletal remains, I haven't seen any official report of who found them or exactly where. The report stated that 2 (not 3) remains were found.

I'm sure a number of people here have sources for more information - some of which maybe true and some of which may not be. I think at this point, it's only responsible to post those things reported by the sheriff's dept. and leave the rest for them to decide when to share it.

Just my $0.02

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

This is getting to be more and more interesting!

 

[somehiker]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

"2 lb.Gold,1 lb. Platinum, ? , ?, 2 lb. Bismuth, AND 2 holy stones =
makes what ?"

---a hefty packpack and a great doorstop,I'll bet.

Someone has to know the answer.Right?

if there is a devil . then there is a god
and there is very much a god.!!!

Lot of folks been sayin the same this Sunday morning.
Probably say the same next Sunday morning too.

Regards:SH.

 

[somehiker]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Much of this saga reminds me of the classic shell game with an endless series of shills.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the apparent loss of team spirit.

http://drlmedia.com/kings.pdf

Long knives can be deadly.To both kings and king makers.



Regards:SH.