Documented evidence that Waltz worked at (or for) the Vulture Mine?

[Hal Croves]

H-2CHARLIE
Stealing a wagon full of unprocessed ore would have been a major accomplishment in 1874 and I doubt that it would have gone unchallenged/unreported (I am looking at the local papers). I think that running off to Phoenix would not have been far enough to escape the reach of the new owners of the Vulture and it would have required an accomplice. The hangings at the Vulture occurred "early" in the mines history (not sure of the last hanging date). Looking at the Dutchman's extended family and reading the stories told by those who knew him, I think that his personality has been much distorted. Dutch Jacob was well liked in Phoenix... yes I am sure by the people that profited from his spending, but I am having doubts as to the depth of his evil deeds. If you remember where you read that story, please post it!

 

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[StreamlineGold]

Bump from the past.

I pondered this one..I have held high grade Vulture ore in my hand with large chunky gold in it. Secondly, it is high copper content, more orange / yellow than the Bradshaws area ore. Look at dutchmans matchbook, the gold does look similar.

But much closer if you look at the ore from Goldfield, which also went bonanza grade in areas, that gold also looks similar.

Using science and XRF scans on the ore would reveal if there are similar origins with the background minerals. Such as Vulture has high galena/lead content and had a specific signature on average.

Might not be an exact science but it can certainly rule out some theories.


I have never been convinced his mine is in the Supes but anything is possible.. with copper and silver mines near the area, might find small pockets of gold..its however not known as a gold bearing area...

I have been hard rock mining here in AZ for a while now, just my observations from being in the field.😎

 

[Oroblanco]

Bump from the past.

I pondered this one..I have held high grade Vulture ore in my hand with large chunky gold in it. Secondly, it is high copper content, more orange / yellow than the Bradshaws area ore. Look at dutchmans matchbook, the gold does look similar.

But much closer if you look at the ore from Goldfield, which also went bonanza grade in areas, that gold also looks similar.

Using science and XRF scans on the ore would reveal if there are similar origins with the background minerals. Such as Vulture has high galena/lead content and had a specific signature on average.

Might not be an exact science but it can certainly rule out some theories.


I have never been convinced his mine is in the Supes but anything is possible.. with copper and silver mines near the area, might find small pockets of gold..its however not known as a gold bearing area...

I have been hard rock mining here in AZ for a while now, just my observations from being in the field.

Vulture ore is definitely similar to LDM. However it is quite possible that the stories linking Jacob Waltz to the Vulture could be confabulating the "other" Lost Dutchman mine, has been discussed here before some time ago. This Lost Dutchman of the Vulture area had been found dead not far from Vulture peak, his ore was unlike any known in that area. Details from this other LDM have been mixed up with Waltz before, like the part about wrapping rags around his burro's feet, which was the "other" LDM not Waltz.

 

[Oroblanco]

PS
Here is what I was talking about - there are SEVERAL Lost Dutchman gold mines in Arizona, only the one in the Superstitions is well known today.

One variety of the "Lost Dutchman" story concerns the operations of a German who made his headquarters at Wickenburg, in the early seventies. He had a very irritating habit of disappearing from the camp once in a while, going by night, and taking with him several burros, whose feet would be so well wrapped that trailing was impossible. He would return at night, in equally as mysterious a manner, his burros loaded with gold ore of wonderful richness. Efforts at tracking him failed. The country for miles around was searched carefully to find the source of his wealth, which could not have been very far distant. The ore was not the same as that at Vulture. The location of the mine never became known to anyone, save its discoverer. He disappeared as usual one night, and never returned. The assumption that he was murdered by Apaches appears to have been sustained by a prospector's discovery near Vulture in the summer of 1895 of the barrel of an old muzzle-loading shotgun, and by it, a home-made mosquito gun stock. {EDIT this was obviously intended to say "mesquite" not "mosquito"} The gun had been there so long that even the hammer and trigger had rusted away. Near by was a human skeleton, bleached from long exposure. The next find was some small heaps of very rich gold rock, probably where sacks had decayed from around the ore, and then at a short distance was discovered a shallow prospect hole, sunk on a gold-bearing ledge. The ore in the heaps was about the same character as that which had been brought into Wickenburg in the early days by the "Lost Dutchman," but it didn't agree at all with the ore in the shallow prospect hole, which was not considered worthy of further development.

End quoted extract
<from Arizona, Prehistoric, Aboriginal, Pioneer, Modern: The Nation's Youngest
by James H. McClintock - Arizona - 1916 pp 392, online at Google books free, public domain>

 

[wrmickel1]

Vulture ore is definitely similar to LDM. However it is quite possible that the stories linking Jacob Waltz to the Vulture could be confabulating the "other" Lost Dutchman mine, has been discussed here before some time ago. This Lost Dutchman of the Vulture area had been found dead not far from Vulture peak, his ore was unlike any known in that area. Details from this other LDM have been mixed up with Waltz before, like the part about wrapping rags around his burro's feet, which was the "other" LDM not Waltz.

Dr. Glover’s new book and better Technology has determined Vulture Ore is no match to Known Dutchman’s Ore,
And Known Dutchman’s Ore is matched to only two places Colorado And California Ore,

So things are looking alittle thin.

Babymick1

 

[wrmickel1]

PS,I like the good Doctor. As Dave pointed out I’m no English Teacher, So could there be one more book for Mr. Glover.

The Lost Dutchman/Peralta Stones Finnal Destination!

It does got a nice hook to it.

Babymick1

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Dr. Glover’s new book and better Technology has determined Vulture Ore is no match to Known Dutchman’s Ore,
And Known Dutchman’s Ore is matched to only two places Colorado And California Ore,

So things are looking alittle thin.

Babymick1

AHA! I was waiting for that, Mick!

It looks like you've received your new book? Glad to hear it didn't take a month to get to you!

Anyway, what I was waiting for, was for you to post about the AgTe found in one of the triangles of the matchbox. It appears you've picked up on that.

I disagree that Dr. Glover's findings, in any way, support your statement that "Known Dutchman's Ore is matched to only two places Colorado And California Ore"

But, it does seem to indicate the possibility that at least one part of the matchbox, (one of the little triangles), contains ore with AgTe that seems to be rare in AZ.

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Hello All: The old mining records from the Vulture Mine use to be at the OLD museum in Wickenburg however it burned down years ago along with all of the old record books. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[azdave35]

Dr. Glover’s new book and better Technology has determined Vulture Ore is no match to Known Dutchman’s Ore,
And Known Dutchman’s Ore is matched to only two places Colorado And California Ore,

So things are looking alittle thin.

Babymick1

mick...i shouldn't have to tell you this because you are a lapidary guy but here goes....the lapidary artwork on the matchbox is what's known as intarsia ...sliced pieces of rock usually in geometric shapes used as inlay...there is no proof that all those little triangles come from one rock...the jeweler may have run out of the candle box ore and had to fill in with rock from somewhere else...or he just thought it would be cool to use pieces from another rock..who knows?...chew on that for a while

 

[wrmickel1]

mick...i shouldn't have to tell you this because you are a lapidary guy but here goes....the lapidary artwork on the matchbox is what's known as intarsia ...sliced pieces of rock usually in geometric shapes used as inlay...there is no proof that all those little triangles come from one rock...the jeweler may have run out of the candle box ore and had to fill in with rock from somewhere else...or he just thought it would be cool to use pieces from another rock..who knows?...chew on that for a while

Well you have seen the Box, So is it the same or does it look more like the Ore from the Bulldog Mine, Cause you said mine looks like it came from the Bulldog. I never been there. Them little Triangles I’m talking about. But I’ve never heard that story about the box ever. So I’m a chewing.

Babymick1

 

[wrmickel1]

AHA! I was waiting for that, Mick!

It looks like you've received your new book? Glad to hear it didn't take a month to get to you!

Anyway, what I was waiting for, was for you to post about the AgTe found in one of the triangles of the matchbox. It appears you've picked up on that.

I disagree that Dr. Glover's findings, in any way, support your statement that "Known Dutchman's Ore is matched to only two places Colorado And California Ore"

But, it does seem to indicate the possibility that at least one part of the matchbox, (one of the little triangles), contains ore with AgTe that seems to be rare in AZ.

The Box was made in California with known Cali Gold.

Makes perfect logic

Babymick1

 

[wrmickel1]

Dave

Thats why I asked about the good Doctor, You said he was a straight shooter. I bought his book for that very fact. If his testing would match mine. I already New the results. That’s two independent test from Known Dutchman’s Ore That produced the same results. Science is hard to just pass off.

Babymick1

 

[azdave35]

Well you have seen the Box, So is it the same or does it look more like the Ore from the Bulldog Mine, Cause you said mine looks like it came from the Bulldog. I never been there. Them little Triangles I’m talking about. But I’ve never heard that story about the box ever. So I’m a chewing.

Babymick1

the bulldog ore has been tested mick...the ore on the matchbox is not from the bulldog....not sure if its still there but there were some samples from the bulldog at the museum...

 

[wrmickel1]

the bulldog ore has been tested mick...the ore on the matchbox is not from the bulldog....not sure if its still there but there were some samples from the bulldog at the museum...

Dave

Does any of this ore match the Triangles on the Box.
I never got to see it in person. Look in to the ore and see if there are color matches to the inlays of the Triangle’s.

Babymick1

 

[azdave35]

View attachment 1727306

Dave

Does any of this ore match the Triangles on the Box.
I never got to see it in person. Look in to the ore and see if there are color matches to the inlays of the Triangle’s.

Babymick1

dont look like a match to me mick

 

[Mad Machinist]

Hate to tell you guys this, but the Dutchman isn't in the Superstitions.

 

[azdave35]

Hate to tell you guys this, but the Dutchman isn't in the Superstitions.

nope..hes in the cemetery in phoenix

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Dave

Thats why I asked about the good Doctor, You said he was a straight shooter. I bought his book for that very fact. If his testing would match mine. I already New the results. That’s two independent test from Known Dutchman’s Ore That produced the same results. Science is hard to just pass off.

Babymick1

Mick, are you saying you've "tested" "known" Dutchman ore?

 

[wrmickel1]

Mick, are you saying you've "tested" "known" Dutchman ore?

Alleged known Dutchman’s Ore, YES

BABYMICK1

 

[azdave35]

Alleged know Dutchman’s Ore, YES

BABYMICK1