Doc Thorne gold...Is it an easier legend than the LDM

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I stand corrected. I went back and looked. The four peaks are not capitalized.
Sorry everybody, I don?t know why I was thinking that.

Regardless of syntax, which peaks? Ever see the small peaks lined up against the distant larger peaks in the background as approaching the morman stope area? From the HWY. There is no shortage of peaks.

 

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[Idahodutch]

Regardless of syntax, which peaks? Ever see the small peaks lined up against the distant larger peaks in the background as approaching the morman stope area? From the HWY. There is no shortage of peaks.

There is a very large mountain north of the Superstition Wilderness, called Four Peaks.
I don?t know of another with the same name, but who knows....

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

There is a very large mountain north of the Superstition Wilderness, called Four Peaks.
I don?t know of another with the same name, but who knows....

1) search my old posts about how it lines up with the JF area.

2) search to see the perpendicular approach from the SW with a smaller closer 4 peaks.

3) wrap your mind around how many peaks are actually out there

 

[Idahodutch]

1) search my old posts about how it lines up with the JF area.

2) search to see the perpendicular approach from the SW with a smaller closer 4 peaks.

3) wrap your mind around how many peaks are actually out there

I?m not sure what it is you are after?
There are lots of peaks, yes.

I can only say that when I followed clues, best I could .... over much time, I found myself at the spot that seemed to line up with the clues for getting to that spot. So the next clue is from that spot, look to the north ...... and what Waltz said you should be able to see, can be seen.

Four Peaks is what is there, or I should say it looks like only one peak, from that spot.
It was a view from a specified spot, and it was right on.

Asking me to search through your past posts (all posts, all threads?) to read about how there are many places that might seem to fit various interpretations... (I?m guessing) Why, when I?m nearing the final part of my search, is curious.

Saying if I just go and search like you suggest, and try to wrap my head around how many peaks,..... If you think Four Peaks (mountain) is not what Waltz was talking about, I would wonder why not.

Not really following your intent or meaning.
Idahodutch

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I?m not sure what it is you are after?
There are lots of peaks, yes.

I can only say that when I followed clues, best I could .... over much time, I found myself at the spot that seemed to line up with the clues for getting to that spot. So the next clue is from that spot, look to the north ...... and what Waltz said you should be able to see, can be seen.

Four Peaks is what is there, or I should say it looks like only one peak, from that spot.
It was a view from a specified spot, and it was right on.

Asking me to search through your past posts (all posts, all threads?) to read about how there are many places that might seem to fit various interpretations... (I?m guessing) Why, when I?m nearing the final part of my search, is curious.

Saying if I just go and search like you suggest, and try to wrap my head around how many peaks,..... If you think Four Peaks (mountain) is not what Waltz was talking about, I would wonder why not.

Not really following your intent or meaning.
Idahodutch

Find a topo, draw a line, and tell us where it leads. Are you really looking there?

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I?m not sure what it is you are after?
There are lots of peaks, yes.

I can only say that when I followed clues, best I could .... over much time, I found myself at the spot that seemed to line up with the clues for getting to that spot. So the next clue is from that spot, look to the north ...... and what Waltz said you should be able to see, can be seen.

Four Peaks is what is there, or I should say it looks like only one peak, from that spot.
It was a view from a specified spot, and it was right on.

Asking me to search through your past posts (all posts, all threads?) to read about how there are many places that might seem to fit various interpretations... (I?m guessing) Why, when I?m nearing the final part of my search, is curious.

Saying if I just go and search like you suggest, and try to wrap my head around how many peaks,..... If you think Four Peaks (mountain) is not what Waltz was talking about, I would wonder why not.

Not really following your intent or meaning.
Idahodutch

Or... check your post history http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...-clue-4-peaks-lined-up-1-a-2.html#post6310457

 

[skyhawk1251]

I have read Helen Corbin's book, The Bible On Jacob Waltz And The Lost Dutchman Mine, and I saw the topo map with a line connecting Four Peaks with Weaver's Needle, but I wanted to do some research on my own, as to from what line-of-sight do Four Peaks appear as one. I went to Google Earth for an overhead view of Four Peaks and first placed pushpins where the summits of Four Peaks lined up in a row. Then I expanded the view, placing pushpins in a straight line, and extending the line into the Superstition Mountains Wilderness Area. I held a ruler against the computer screen to make sure the pushpins were all in a straight line and all held to the same compass orientation. My line did not lead directly over Weaver's Needle, but was very close to it. Anyone can do as I did to obtain their own results. Part of my connecting line is shown in the image below. Deering Canyon is just below the center of the image. I think it's important to keep in mind that Jacob Waltz was up in years and his vision might not have been 20/20, so four peaks appearing as one could have been as his weak eyes saw it.

 

[Idahodutch]

Or... check your post history http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...-clue-4-peaks-lined-up-1-a-2.html#post6310457

I chose very specific wording, in some of those posts. So, you might have to just come right out and be specific

 

[rk85044]

I have read Helen Corbin's book, The Bible On Jacob Waltz And The Lost Dutchman Mine, and I saw the topo map with a line connecting Four Peaks with Weaver's Needle, but I wanted to do some research on my own, as to from what line-of-sight do Four Peaks appear as one. I went to Google Earth for an overhead view of Four Peaks and first placed pushpins where the summits of Four Peaks lined up in a row. Then I expanded the view, placing pushpins in a straight line, and extending the line into the Superstition Mountains Wilderness Area. I held a ruler against the computer screen to make sure the pushpins were all in a straight line and all held to the same compass orientation. My line did not lead directly over Weaver's Needle, but was very close to it. Anyone can do as I did to obtain their own results. Part of my connecting line is shown in the image below. Deering Canyon is just below the center of the image. I think it's important to keep in mind that Jacob Waltz was up in years and his vision might not have been 20/20, so four peaks appearing as one could have been as his weak eyes saw it.

View attachment 1940962

sorry dont buy this at all... from far enough away ...10 peaks together will look like 1 to the naked eye.... the dutchmans "clews" were all too vague... but time and again... using sat photos..arm chair sleuths find the truth.... at best it is a general direction...at worst a word substitute "clew" people keep falling for... like left is right... feet become yards....east becomes west...and as for your source... did not mr corbin take the book out of print due to tne inaccuracies? thats what i remember

 

[azdave35]

sorry dont buy this at all... from far enough away ...10 peaks together will look like 1 to the naked eye.... the dutchmans "clews" were all too vague... but time and again... using sat photos..arm chair sleuths find the truth.... at best it is a general direction...at worst a word substitute "clew" people keep falling for... like left is right... feet become yards....east becomes west...and as for your source... did not mr corbin take the book out of print due to tne inaccuracies? thats what i remember

you are wasting your words my friend...everyone on this forum has proved that there is no basis for fact behind any one of these bar room clues..these guys have convinced their selves they are genuine..all these clues and maps are bogus...if they weren't the mine would have been found long ago

 

[skyhawk1251]

... everyone on this forum has proved that there is no basis for fact behind any one of these bar room clues ... these guys have convinced theirselves they are genuine ... all these clues and maps are bogus ... if they weren't the mine would have been found long ago

Truer words were never written. I agree completely. Waltz was a declared murderer, if we can believe the historical records, so spinning grandiose yarns based totally on lies would not have tarnished his self esteem one bit. The most I can give him is that he worked an old Peralta mine that yielded a paltry amount of free-mill gold. The rich ore found in a box under his bed probably came from a Peralta cache. The "clues" are mostly drunken, saloon boasting. Maybe someone needs to write a book to end all books, titled The Saloon Memoirs Of Jacob Waltz. If Waltz, indeed, did find a gold mine that could make men millionaires, why did he die in poverty, raising chickens for egg money? He should have been long gone from Phoenix, living a life of luxury in San Francisco.

As far as my connecting line leading from Four Peaks to Weaver's Needle is concerned, I looked all along that line for a tributary canyon branching off from a northward-trending canyon and, specifically, a tributary canyon that is narrow enough to have a mine and "rock cabin" separated by only 200 feet. I see nothing of that kind.

these guys have convinced theirselves they are genuine

I'm not exactly sure who you mean by "these guys", azdave35, but I would include people in that group who have discovered they can have a nice flow of income by writing books and otherwise perpetuating the LDM legend.

 

[Idahodutch]

Sounds like you guys gave up?

Pretty soon it will start to cool off. Might be more water this winter too...
Sometimes changes in weather can brighten outlooks

 

[coazon de oro]

I have read Helen Corbin's book, The Bible On Jacob Waltz And The Lost Dutchman Mine, and I saw the topo map with a line connecting Four Peaks with Weaver's Needle, but I wanted to do some research on my own, as to from what line-of-sight do Four Peaks appear as one. I went to Google Earth for an overhead view of Four Peaks and first placed pushpins where the summits of Four Peaks lined up in a row. Then I expanded the view, placing pushpins in a straight line, and extending the line into the Superstition Mountains Wilderness Area. I held a ruler against the computer screen to make sure the pushpins were all in a straight line and all held to the same compass orientation. My line did not lead directly over Weaver's Needle, but was very close to it. Anyone can do as I did to obtain their own results. Part of my connecting line is shown in the image below. Deering Canyon is just below the center of the image. I think it's important to keep in mind that Jacob Waltz was up in years and his vision might not have been 20/20, so four peaks appearing as one could have been as his weak eyes saw it.

Howdy Skyhawk,

Many here will never be treasure finders when they expect things to be exactly as the story goes. Landmarks are usually in the general direction. I also commented some years ago on Waltz's eyesight not being that good. That may also be why he carried a shotgun. Brown's Peak is the tallest and furthest North of the Four Peaks. The peaks don't really have to line up, they just have to be in front of Brown's Peak's "perfil", to make them look like one.
Many books, new and old have some clues wrong, like the 200 feet is not about a cabin, and it is of course rounded off from a calculation using feet. The three red hills clue has also been used wrong by many because of an old book. The rock that looks like a man has also been made to face in the wrong direction because of some book, and the list goes on. Some here consider some of these book writers as experts, and stand on their shoulders, and still can't find anything, because their expert had things wrong. These writers are still a great part of the LDM legend, for they have kept it alive, just like many posting here.
Before you ask me to clear some of the clues up, they are already clear in other writings, you just have figure up what backs them up. In more than ten years posting I have never asked a single question concerning any LDM, or PSM's clue. I have only asked about two LDM clues on pm, or email. The question on both was just who wrote them. Waltz was quoted saying he would always go behind the rock that looks like a man, on his way to the mine. I remember reading it somewhere, but after more than ten years I haven't been able to find it again.

Homar

 

[Matthew Roberts]

skyhawk and Coazon de oro,



The Four Peaks looking as one is one of the few good clues. Anyone who has spent any serious time in those mountains knows at certain points on hazy days the Four Peaks do appear to be one mountain.

The photo of Bob Corbin and myself was taken on one of those days with us standing about where the line from 4 peaks to Weavers Needle runs. Four Peaks is behind us in the background.

 

[skyhawk1251]

Sounds like you guys gave up? -- Idahodutch

I haven't given up, but I remain a skeptic. There does seem to be ample supporting evidence that a source of rich gold ore exists in the Superstition Mountains, plus a tangible artifact in the form of the matchbox, but I doubt if any of the "clues" will lead to the source of that rich gold ore. Instead, I think the "rich mine" will be found purely by chance, so I'd advise anyone who is going anywhere in the Superstition Mountains to observe everything very closely. The smallest "anomaly" could be a treasure sign, and could lead to the find of a lifetime.

The stories of Doc Thorne and Two Soldiers are the two supporting tales that give me hope the "rich mine" will be found someday, followed by retrieval of gold ore that is identical to the matchbox ore. That should end Dutch hunting for good, and people can move on to other quests.

I am weary of books being written that are based on other books, in endless succession, when there is actually very little original source material that can be deemed to be valid and reliable. I'm wise enough to know that there are too many people who are using the LDM legend to pad their bank accounts, whether through writing books, TV appearances, lectures, etc.

About Four Peaks appearing as one, there can be no doubt that from a certain line-of-sight they do appear as one. For someone with blurry, impaired vision, however, that line-of-sight would not be precise. There would be some east and west variation from that line.

Only one of the Four Peaks, Brown's Peak, is officially named.

Brown's Peak 7,659
Brother Peak 7,642
Sister Peak 7,572
Amethyst Peak 7,524

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

I chose very specific wording, in some of those posts. So, you might have to just come right out and be specific

right .... as if

 

[Idahodutch]

I haven't given up, but I remain a skeptic. There does seem to be ample supporting evidence that a source of rich gold ore exists in the Superstition Mountains, plus a tangible artifact in the form of the matchbox, but I doubt if any of the "clues" will lead to the source of that rich gold ore. Instead, I think the "rich mine" will be found purely by chance, so I'd advise anyone who is going anywhere in the Superstition Mountains to observe everything very closely. The smallest "anomaly" could be a treasure sign, and could lead to the find of a lifetime.

The stories of Doc Thorne and Two Soldiers are the two supporting tales that give me hope the "rich mine" will be found someday, followed by retrieval of gold ore that is identical to the matchbox ore. That should end Dutch hunting for good, and people can move on to other quests.

I am weary of books being written that are based on other books, in endless succession, when there is actually very little original source material that can be deemed to be valid and reliable. I'm wise enough to know that there are too many people who are using the LDM legend to pad their bank accounts, whether through writing books, TV appearances, lectures, etc.

About Four Peaks appearing as one, there can be no doubt that from a certain line-of-sight they do appear as one. For someone with blurry, impaired vision, however, that line-of-sight would not be precise. There would be some east and west variation from that line.

Only one of the Four Peaks, Brown's Peak, is officially named.

Brown's Peak 7,659
Brother Peak 7,642
Sister Peak 7,572
Amethyst Peak 7,524

Skyhawk,
On the Four Peaks clue, It was not until actually going to high point of the low ridge and looking north, did I know for sure what the clue meant. That was more than 12 years ago. I did not look to see where else the view may be, until a year or so ago.

Matthew,
The view looked to be of only one of the peaks. I was sweating quite a lot, but the view was clear enough.
From that spot, the Skyline view looked to block all but one peak. As I moved East and west, the view was no longer the same.

Guys, all I can say, I was floored at the accuracy of the clue, including looking from the high point of a low ridge, with a saddle tying in, and a ravine below. It felt like the heavens opened up

I will be amazed if that precise spot and view is not the one Waltz spoke of.

 

[markmar]

I like to read different versions of a story. Different stories about the same subject, show different mindsets, different concepts adopted by various people and mind changings over the years. I'm sure Dr.Thorne saw that gold placer in a dry canyon bed, but I'm also sure that was not the story he went blinfolded to the residual placer of a gold vein. There were two different Dr Thorne stories about gold in the Superstitions, and for his own reasons, he told John Spring only one of them.
Two stories of Dr Thorne seeing gold in the Superstitions, but which of them could be proven as true? I believe both, but for now I want to stay on the Bark notes account, which IMO describes the region of Waltz mines.
I post in another thread at http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/lost-dutchman-s-mine/617748-dutchman-s-caches-24.html#post6757095 post #351, a modified real picture of the LDMs region which showed the spot of the LDM inclined shaft ( yellow circle ), and the face from Perfil mapa ( orange oval ).

Today I have added a portion to the right ( to the left if looking down to the canyon floor ) from the big picture to see , guess what? ... the " spur " that Dr. Thorne saw and has been mentioned in Bark's notes.

It's realy nice when clues described in real accounts , match the real region of the story.

Have a nice weekend.

Maybe nobody paid much attention to the cross above the LDM inclined shaft. It's not a common cross but is almost identical to the cross on a Tucson artifact. What are your opinions ?

 

[Bart@Big Boys Hobbies]

The Lost Dutchman Mine has had many false experts, and clues...Is the simple story of Doc Thorne easier? Fewer stories mean more truth. The story of Doc Thorne is easier to follow and has less maps. So maybe if we could find historical evidence of this we could all be closer to an answer. We should also look into the lost Dragoon pistols. There has only been one story on those lost Dragoon pistols...and I am looking for historical evidence...If we cannot find the Lost Dutchman Gold mine, maybe with military records, we can find those lost crate of pistols...Lets find them

Following this thread! Love to see a crate of pistols!

 

[Doc4261]

skyhawk and Coazon de oro,

View attachment 1941144

The Four Peaks looking as one is one of the few good clues. Anyone who has spent any serious time in those mountains knows at certain points on hazy days the Four Peaks do appear to be one mountain.

The photo of Bob Corbin and myself was taken on one of those days with us standing about where the line from 4 peaks to Weavers Needle runs. Four Peaks is behind us in the background.

Looks like you were by el hoya that I had pointed out.