Doc Thorne gold...Is it an easier legend than the LDM

[PotBelly Jim]

Thanks...never spent much time on Apache, just remember the sign reading "USAF Recreation Area" or something like that.

Apache Lake always kinda creeped me out. Don't know why. Spent plenty of time at Saguaro, Canyon and Roosevelt...hardly ever launched at Apache.

 

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[PotBelly Jim]

Gratuitous pics of Apache, just because

 

[PotBelly Jim]

One of my favorite views, the start of the adventure:

Yes, I'm going through old pics on the computin' machine...might as well post 'em, for all those who are looking forward to their next trip in.

 

[Cubfan64]

More.....

Fish Creek Lodge...

From Fish Creek Hill...

Here's another from 1910

 

[Cubfan64]

In part....."The mine and panning sequences were shot close to where there was a Yavapai/Apache rancheria (village) site out near Apache Lake. It was mentioned by Mike Burns.....aka "Hoomothya"... in his autobiography ( he called it quail's roost ), as well as in two other accounts (by Captain William Brown and John G. Bourke ) of the sequence leading up to the battle of Skull Cave....aka Massacre at Skeleton Cave. Lots of history out that way."

That camp, in a wash towards the north end of Bronco Butte and across from the ADOT yard, was close enough to where one would have been able to hear, on a still night, the sound of the Salt River rapids which are now under Apache Lake. The other camp mentioned, was probably the one across the river, where Willow Creek entered the Salt, also now under the lake.

The black and white image came from an article I found awhile ago (that I can't seem to find right now) by an author interested in Yavapai history and culture. Mike Burns was his "source" and Mike pointed out this spot as being "Quail's Roost" where Yavapai would gather for celebrations etc... The color photo is one I took of the same area a few years ago.

I found the source for the black and white photo - it was "The Southeastern Yavapai" by E.F. Gifford from 1932. Here is how the campsite area was described by Mike Burns...

 

[Cubfan64]

Evidently you missed the part where Jim and his friend Kurt threatened people who tried to trespass on their "secret" places.

I've heard a few stories about Jim and his threats but never experienced them firsthand. I don't think Jim trusted me at all - he didn't like that I knew so many from so many different "camps" in the LDM community - he always told me I needed to pick one because by being friendly with them all meant I would never get any real information as everyone would think I was sharing with the other "team."

I don't like playing games like that, so I never did join one side or another - I think I'm fairly trusted by most everyone. If someone tells me something in confidence, I do my utmost best to not share that information with anyone else. I've probably slipped up a time or two over the years but it would have been by accident or faulty memory.

Kurt P on the other hand rubbed me the wrong way really early on and his public and personal threats to stay away from "his group's" areas (which were Jim's old areas that he claims Jim "gave" to him) didn't set well with me or the other people who he threatened.

 

[wrmickel1]

Kurt
Is nowhere near Jim's area anymore! I would most likely be looking or partners with Clay.

Just a thought

Babymick1

 

[Cubfan64]

Kurt
Is nowhere near Jim's area anymore! I would most likely be looking or partners with Clay.

Just a thought

Babymick1

I'm not sure I understand your second statement - who would most likely be looking and did you mean for instead of or? You're not insinuating that Kurt is trying to partner with Clay?

 

[wrmickel1]

I'm not sure I understand your second statement - who would most likely be looking and did you mean for instead of or? You're not insinuating that Kurt is trying to partner with Clay?

Yes most likely, I kn

Yes, I know Kurt is in Clay's area or maybe he just likes to hang out at the wasp.

Babymick1

 

[PotBelly Jim]

The black and white image came from an article I found awhile ago (that I can't seem to find right now) by an author interested in Yavapai history and culture. Mike Burns was his "source" and Mike pointed out this spot as being "Quail's Roost" where Yavapai would gather for celebrations etc... The color photo is one I took of the same area a few years ago.

I found the source for the black and white photo - it was "The Southeastern Yavapai" by E.F. Gifford from 1932. Here is how the campsite area was described by Mike Burns...

Nice work Paul!

 

[Cubfan64]

Nice work Paul!

I can't take all the credit. I asked around to a bunch of people asking if anyone had an idea of where the black and white view was located. I had guesses from all along the Apache Trail - based on the rest of the article I had a feeling it was in the Mesquite Flat area but I had someone who said they had spent years in that area and was absolutely certain it was located well prior to Tortilla Flat. I happened to get lucky one day and showed the photo to David Leach and he immediately told me it was Bronco Butte and said I could get almost that exact photo angle from the road there which is where it was located.

I have so many places I want to explore out there and feel like I'm running out of time

 

[Cubfan64]

Yes most likely, I kn

Yes, I know Kurt is in Clay's area or maybe he just likes to hang out at the wasp.

Babymick1

Well I'm about 99.9999999% certain Clay would never partner up with Kurt - at least I certainly hope not. Clay has been screwed over before by dishonest and untrustworthy people - hope it doesn't happen again.

 

[somehiker]

Well I'm about 99.9999999% certain Clay would never partner up with Kurt - at least I certainly hope not. Clay has been screwed over before by dishonest and untrustworthy people - hope it doesn't happen again.

Check with Greg...he would know.
I've heard that Clay leased the Wasp to someone...not KP.....a few years ago.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Check with Greg...he would know.
I've heard that Clay leased the Wasp to someone...not KP.....a few years ago.

Somehiker,

I've been living at Maneadero, baja California Mexico for the past year but stay in touch with Clay and talk with him regularly.
Clay is definitely not partners with KP or intends to be.
The lease on the Wasp mine expired a couple years ago and Clay is now not interested in leasing it again. Clay is interested in selling the Wasp and has made a video to help in that effort. The video can be seen on you tube at,.... The OLD WASP mine.

 

[somehiker]

Somehiker,

I've been living at Maneadero, baja California Mexico for the past year but stay in touch with Clay and talk with him regularly.
Clay is definitely not partners with KP or intends to be.
The lease on the Wasp mine expired a couple years ago and Clay is now not interested in leasing it again. Clay is interested in selling the Wasp and has made a video to help in that effort. The video can be seen on you tube at,.... The OLD WASP mine.

Matthew,

Thanks for the reminder....

 

[wrmickel1]

Fella's

Take it easy, I never claimed KP was any of the horrible things you say, And I never said he has any stake in the wasp, But you three don't live here so your boots are never on the ground. So like I said I see what's going around out there. So I'll be sticking to my word.
And Matt was that revolver found by a guy from Texas, just wondering.

Babymick1

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Good morning Markmar,
Barking up the wrong tree, is a saying..... like coon hunting with using a dog or dogs to chase down and eventually tree the raccoon. Once they tree the coon, the dogs stay at the bottom barking.

No matter if lion or dog, the coon is in a different tree
The point was, according to Waltz, the LDM location offers a view that can only be seen from a certain spot. That spot is not in the region you are looking.

Doesn?t mean you came up empty, but to be real LDM region, you need the view of Four Peaks as one peak, which means Four Peaks is visible from correct LDM region. No matter what you decide to believe, is irrelevant. In reality, things are, what they are.

You want to find the coon with a lion.... good luck.

What is the original fist reference to 4 peaks? Does it tell us precisely which 4 peaks?

 

[Idahodutch]

What is the original fist reference to 4 peaks? Does it tell us precisely which 4 peaks?

The clue comes from the Holmes Manuscript.
The wording is “Four Peaks” as in the landmark mountain that sits to the north.

I got the impression, the details of this clue came from Waltz, on his deathbed .... orally.
But the written clue uses the landmark name with the 4 spelled out and capitalized.

I don’t know what was originally said, but the written clue is using the name.

 

[markmar]

What is the original fist reference to 4 peaks? Does it tell us precisely which 4 peaks?

What Waltz said to Holmes: " Go through this saddle and on up a low ridge and when you get to the highest point of the ridge you can look north and the four peaks are lined up to look like one peak. In the other direction you will see a high needle."

 

[Idahodutch]

What Waltz said to Holmes: " Go through this saddle and on up a low ridge and when you get to the highest point of the ridge you can look north and the four peaks are lined up to look like one peak. In the other direction you will see a high needle."

I stand corrected. I went back and looked. The four peaks are not capitalized.
Sorry everybody, I don?t know why I was thinking that.