DOC NOSS-Victorio Peak OR The Caballo Mountains

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd morning Not, you earned your morning coffee '7' playeddd a prominent part in early Jesuit /Church .teachings. I was particularly interested in the bottom left section of the last map. It shows a Tayopa complex with Sasabe And other names such as Chinapas. However this is not the Tayopa of Dobies Book, the one looked for. That lies much further south, however the notation of it's being in Sonora is interesting. Gracias my friend.

Don Jose de La Manvha

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Well the notations on the map are not old, since they are of fairly modern type, not Spanish script of the day, Sooooo

So I defy anyone to find Tayopa with that map.

Don Jose de La Macha

 

[Not Peralta]

real de tayopa tropical tramp, from what I know these were translated from the original map .the map isn't taking you to tayopa, but away from tayopa, its taking you to two different storehouses or warehouses on the trail.one is in the caballo;s.np and yes it puts tayopa in sonora.

 

[Not Peralta]

one of the maps posted does not lead to tayopa, but away from toyopa, notice the directional wheel with the long spoke , theres a date of 1646 with a date of 1861 below it, was this the first time this map was translated and copied, and if this tayopa was located in Sonora, that's a mystery in itself, what were they taking out of this tayopa? np

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI NOT, from Tayopa itself, hi-grade Silver, but other mines in the area produced Gold, even Pt.

Tis curious that the author used a Snake with a forked tongue ?? Could have multiple meanings.

Side thingie, Chinapas in actuality would lie to the left, West, not to the right as shown, unless it was meant for orientation..

Don Jose de La Mancha.

p.s. yes, I saw the ladder which indicates either a treasure or mine.

P.P.S. I missed the reference to that being a copy of a copy which could explaint the newer script. I have copies of data that were written with a type writer, and we both know they hadn't been invented yet

 

[Not Peralta]

real de tayopa tropical tramp, thank you for taking the time to look at these maps closely and give your input. these maps were closely held for many years.
they were very important to certain persons in their year long search in the caballo's. does a second tayopa in Sonora have a special meaning to you, what do you think the map maker was trying to do or say,in your research of tayopa what do you think was so important that it was taken out of tayopa. and needed to be transported and hidden somewhere else. np

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd morning NOT, just in time for coffee, join me ? You posted --> In your research of Tayopa what do you think was so important that it was taken out of Tayopa. and needed to be transported and hidden somewhere else. np

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Processed metal of course.for transshipment to Rome.

The impression that I received almost instantly was a snake with a forked tongue means not true, possibly reverse directions. Incidentally Tayopa is in
Chihuaha, but only perhaps 1000 meters from the Sonora line.


Don Jose d La Mancha

 

[Not Peralta]

REAL DE TAYOPA TROPICAL TRAMP. Thank you for your input, just the years that I have had these copies of the maps every time I look at them I find something new, I have not heard any stories of treasure being shipped out of tayopa headed for santa fe, But nothing is impossible, Im beginning to think they are coded maps because of the dates,but who, what and why. any thoughts. np

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

NP, coffee with Oirish tranq ?? you posted --> I have not heard any stories of treasure being shipped out of tayopa headed for santa fe, But nothing is impossible

~~~~~~``````

Why Santa Fe?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Not Peralta]

REAL DE TAYOPA TROPICAL TRAMP, why santa fe, IF Im reading the map right everything is coming from tayopa to rio del norte, to a warehouse in the caballo's,then the trail splits and goes around the caballo's to the north west to another warehouse, and the other trail goes to an unmarked location to the north east,not listed as a warehouse. the map shows santa fe at the north ,but the trails go to n e and nw of santa fe, my mistake , because neither trail goes to santa fe. what do you think.np ps the map shows the caballo's as one warehouse with three crosses, and to the nw is an unmarked location showing a warehouse with three crosses still to be identified. np

 

[Rawhide]

Now your gonna make me go back to the Caballos this summer and look at few spots.........darn.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hola NP, my friend, a tall, cool, fresh limeade?? Since Tayopa was a clandestine mine, it would be foolish to pass any loaded pack train through a Spanish headquarters and possibly expose it. They meticulously avoided this

Hence below Matamorros to load a waiting Jesuit ship for trans shipment to Rome. Major ports were avoided also.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Not Peralta]

I agree tayopa was a clandestine mine, but, like any good clandestine operation people are aware of it, and records had to have been kept.
my curiosity is the maps, maps number 1 and 2 shows items hidden in numerous places with in a hill or mountain. map number 3 shows a starting point from the
serpent of tayopa, and a building with a cross and in the doorway dates of 1646 and 1861, and above the doorway is written oro, if you follow the dotted trail it leads you to
the caballo mountains, which is marked warehouse or depository, but no where on the map does it indicate what was stored or deposited, that's my curiosity, that's why I
asked if anyone had heard stories about this or has any written knowledge of this. this could very well be the clandestine operation. thank you. np

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'd mornig NP: you posted -->I agree tayopa was a clandestine mine, but, like any good clandestine operation people are aware of it, and records had to have been kept.
~~~~~~~~~~

Oh they were, definitely, just like any narco operation today. The jefes ( heads ) know exactly where each shipment is, has been confiscated by the authorities, which field is producing the best quality and amount.. or who ran 'off' with it.

.With life as cheap as it was then, I can rather imagine just what happened to any one hijacking a load, or talking out of line.. Remember, Supposedly the LORD was on the Jesuits side as far as the Indians were concerned.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Rawhide]

REAL DE TAYOPA TROPICAL TRAMP, why santa fe, IF Im reading the map right everything is coming from tayopa to rio del norte, to a warehouse in the caballo's,then the trail splits and goes around the caballo's to the north west to another warehouse, and the other trail goes to an unmarked location to the north east,not listed as a warehouse. the map shows santa fe at the north ,but the trails go to n e and nw of santa fe, my mistake , because neither trail goes to santa fe. what do you think.np ps the map shows the caballo's as one warehouse with three crosses, and to the nw is an unmarked location showing a warehouse with three crosses still to be identified. np

I live very close to these areas in a town called Las Cruces. There is 3 crosses at one point, very historical. I wonder if its related? Victorio Peak isnt that far away. There is a very real hoard of treasure already found in the caballos and its tied up in court........this fits into your map too. But I suspect one other spots........not on your map.

 

[gollum]

Okay. I have to step in here as someone who knows a bit more than your average bear about VP and the whole Noss Adventure.

NP:

First, Willie Daughitt and Buster Ward were the first two whites to find a treasure cave in the area in 1927. No matter how he obtained them, Willie used a map and sextant he got from the windowsill of an old house to find the cave. In it, there were over 2,000 forty pound bars of gold. Willie and Buster may have even killed a couple of people in the process of keeping their cave a secret. Willie was kidnapped and tortured twice by people trying to find his cave. Willie was friendly with Doc Noss. Doc actually helped Willie escape from his kidnappers the second time (maybe even killing the guy watching Willie). In gratitude, Willie let Doc examine the map he had found in his cave. It showed Willie's Cave and six other treasure caves. After doc was murdered by Charlie Ryan in 1949, Willie gave up the ghost. He took all the gold he could. Moved to San Diego and changed his name to Lawrence Foreman. He lived there mostly unemployed from about 1949 till his death in 1998. When he died, his estate was estimated at about $3.5 million.

VP was one of the treasure caves on the LaRue Map that Willie showed Doc. The family thought that Doc may have also discovered another treasure cave in the Caballo Mts, but kept it a secret from everybody after all the crap that had happened to his family over the gold in VP. Unfortunately, Doc was murdered before sharing his secret with anybody else that I know of.

NP, you are very sorely mistaken about so much of what you posted, I don't know where to begin. There were many people that assisted Doc in bringing out treasure from VP. One was Benny Samaniego. Doc gave him a Spanish Suit of Armor which he was known to wear for many public occasions and parades.



After assisting in removing several hundred gold bars from VP along with many artifacts, Doc have Benny a gold bar which he used to pay cash for the house that cost him about $10,000 (if I remember correctly).

You say that there are no witnesses to any gold in VP. That is incorrect. Capt. Fiege and Capt. Berlette of the USAF found a cave at the bottom of VP that contained piles of gold bars. We have the written results of their polygraph tests to prove what they say. We also have a sworn affidavit from an Army Military Police Capt Orby Swanner. He says that he personally witnessed the US Government flatbed something in excess of 93,000,000 (yes, that's ninety-three million) troy ounces of gold from VP before sealing it up. The military says he made it all up and was never there to begin with. GUESS WHAT?

When Operation Goldfinder opened up one of the large chambers, they found Capt Swanner's name sooted into the wall from a carbon arc lamp JUST LIKE AND WHERE CAPT SWANNER SAID IT WAS!



They were within feet of breaking into the deepest chamber when their time officially ran out. The Army took over the site, refusing to grant them any more time. They resealed it, just like it is today.

My best guess based on what I know is that there are at least three (maybe four) treasure caves still not found, and that they are spread out between the Organ, San Andres, and Caballo Mountains. Its a shame Willie's Map wasn't in his effects when he passed away....................... or was it?

Best - Mike

 

[Not Peralta]

Gollum, you wrote, okay, I have to step in here as someone who knows a bit more than your average bear about v.p. and the whole noss adventure.
Sorry to disappoint you, but, Im sticking to my story,and Im not sorely mistaken at all.
yes,like you Im someone who knows a bit more than your average yogi and boo boo about v.p. and the whole noss adventure.
theres only one persons story about the treasure in v.p. and that's ova. which was told to her by doc noss, no one else ever went down into v.p. and saw what doc
claimed was there. what doc knew, he knew, was it true who knows, every thing else is just hear say. np

 

[Springfield]

I live very close to these areas in a town called Las Cruces. There is 3 crosses at one point, very historical. I wonder if its related? Victorio Peak isnt that far away. There is a very real hoard of treasure already found in the caballos and its tied up in court........this fits into your map too. But I suspect one other spots........not on your map.

Casca, the three crosses are very commonly found throughout the Southwest and elsewhere - it's a Christian symbol for Calvary, and most Mexicans and Mexican-Americans are good Catholics.

That said, the local legend I've heard is that your town was named because three crosses were found on Tortugas Mountain in the Spanish period. The turtle ('tortuga') is claimed to be a treasure symbol by th-ers, and of course Tortugas Mountain sits as a gateway into the Organs.

 

[Springfield]

... First, Willie Daughitt and Buster Ward were the first two whites to find a treasure cave in the area in 1927. No matter how he obtained them, Willie used a map and sextant he got from the windowsill of an old house to find the cave. In it, there were over 2,000 forty pound bars of gold. Willie and Buster may have even killed a couple of people in the process of keeping their cave a secret. Willie was kidnapped and tortured twice by people trying to find his cave. Willie was friendly with Doc Noss. Doc actually helped Willie escape from his kidnappers the second time (maybe even killing the guy watching Willie). In gratitude, Willie let Doc examine the map he had found in his cave. It showed Willie's Cave and six other treasure caves. After doc was murdered by Charlie Ryan in 1949, Willie gave up the ghost. He took all the gold he could. Moved to San Diego and changed his name to Lawrence Foreman. He lived there mostly unemployed from about 1949 till his death in 1998. When he died, his estate was estimated at about $3.5 million.

VP was one of the treasure caves on the LaRue Map that Willie showed Doc...

... My best guess based on what I know is that there are at least three (maybe four) treasure caves still not found, and that they are spread out between the Organ, San Andres, and Caballo Mountains. Its a shame Willie's Map wasn't in his effects when he passed away....................... or was it?

Best - Mike

Mike, out of curiosity, are you referring to the map associated with the 'seven' letter supposedly sent by the alleged Franciscan 'Padre LaRue' to a 'Father Rheuschone' in Madrid ca 1802?

 

[Not Peralta]

Mike, out of curiosity, are you referring to the map associated with the 'seven' letter supposedly sent by the alleged Franciscan 'Padre LaRue' to a 'Father Rheuschone' in Madrid ca 1802?

I really wanted to address the alleged LaRue, and the LaRue map but thought about being nice, but since its been brought up, I will let it feed itself, np