Digital cameras CAN see buried gold

[Kentucky Kache]

I'd say you and I agree more than you think.

Absolutely. I don't disagree with anything you've said.

My point is, mainstream science has always laughed at new ideas by new people, and some of those new people are now famous for their works.

True. But in many ways those people are the exceptions or edge cases. Millions of people chase dreams (and that's fine) and never get anywhere with them. I just caution against using the "science doesn't know everything" excuse all of the time because science knows a lot more than we give it credit for. It's easy to fall back on this excuse to try and convince ourselves that we aren't wasting time chasing our dreams. It is one thing to have a completely new and novel idea that contradicts science yet can eventually be proven using scientific methods. It is a completely different matter to wish for something so hard that you completely throw out science altogether and rely on wishful thinking to guide you down a road that many others have already gone down and failed.

I'm not sure why the people in this forum expect to be able to prove that auras exist when so many others have failed to do so. I think it's wishful thinking. But I'm willing to believe that it is still possible as long as people us a scientific method to prove it.

Agreed, but how do you know when your new or novel idea will eventually be proved using scientific methods? What I'm trying to say is, the only ones who ever laughed were those in the "know". Edison wouldn't have laughed at someones ideas. Edison himself was laughed at. All the great inventors were laughed at, but they kept on going. They tried and succeeded, or they tried and failed, but they tried. I would guess there were many others who tried and failed that we'll never hear of, because they were unsuccessful. But if men didn't do that, we would still be driving horse buggies. Of course, that wouldn't be such a bad thing.

 

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[jb7487]

Agreed. If people didn't continue in the face of adversity then we would still be living in caves. But the world is not black and white so it isn't a matter of either throwing science and common sense to the wind or not. I think the earlier example of pigs flying helps make this point. Hiding behind the common argument that there are still things that science does not yet understand would lead you to assume that your time is well spent trying to get pigs to fly. But science and common sense tell us that probably isn't the case. On the other hand, spending time and money trying to find an undiscovered planet in our solar system probably isn't such a foolish thing to do. It's not black and white. Not all things that are "undiscovered" by science are worth persuing if they've been persued to death in the past or common sense tells us that the probability of it being real is exceptionally remote.

Let's face it. The people here are not Thomas Edisons. And they aren't investigating something that is new or novel. They are investigating "pseudo-supernatural" claims that have been investigated over and over again by many people over the years (many of which are 10 times smarter than we are) without ever coming to a positive conclusion. So what makes us think that we are so special and this time we are going to solve this? A lot of time and money is being spent investigating this phenomenon. And if that's what people want to do then so be it. But hopefully they are going into this as an open minded skeptic instead of a wishful thinker who will believe anything. Let's not lose sight of the fact that this thread was started by a guy who is the author of a book on the subject and who stands to profit from people believing that auras can be captured by digital cameras. That is a FACT and is not slanderous in the least.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gentlemen: I am extremely busy, taking a coffee break from business. James, I thank you for a belly laugh in your post referring to me. he he heh e I will be finished in a few hours and will be bk. But frankly James, that post should cause you some embarrassment, I suggest that you delete it.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good evening Ladies and gentlemen:To pick up where James and I left off-->

James, I have posted in many areas in TN on the associated phenomena. You apparently have only reviewed this series, then made a very unscientific statement, definitely indicating a closed and / or depreciative mind. You failed to mention the various treasures that I have found, and posted, especially the recovery of 7 mule loads of 8 Reales, basically due to a fire / luminous gas - precisely what these gentlemen are attempting to see if they can record on film.

For you to say that it is impossible, borders upon the ridiculous since I personally have seen this luminous gas. If I, or many others have / can see it, the phenomena exists. The only question here, is does it also exist in other frequencies that do not lie in the visual spectrum? Can it be captured on another medium, such as film, in 'lesser' quantities than are required for visual location.

For this luminous gas to be visual requires a specific set of circumstances. I have posted the description of the conditions that are apparently required for sufficient quantity of this gas to accumulate and to be visible. As for the amount needed for other forms, that is the reason for the present series of experiments.


Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[StogieJim]

Kentucky and Friends:

Absolutely, there is much more to learn. What I’m trying to say with all this is that an organized approach (i.e. the scientific method: observe, gather facts, theorize, and test) will uncover truth faster than wild speculation followed by random testing. Returning to the flying pigs theory (wild speculation) should we all point our cameras to the sky and shoot images in the hope that we get lucky (random testing)? A theory based on facts is better than one that isn’t because it makes the testing phase more efficient. That’s why I was pressing so hard in replies 274 & 282.

I saw some of Harrison’s chronometers in Greenwich and they had a replica oh H1 ticking away: it’s a beautiful thing. And no screwing around, I choked up because seeing it helps you get some idea how hard he worked for so many years. Again, we agree fully in that you don’t need the title of scientist or degrees on the wall to develop great things. All those who practice the process: observe, gather facts, theorize, and test are scientists. The Wright brothers are a great example because they rejected the common dogma and succeeded in something never before done. However, like Harrison, they were able to do this because they practiced the scientific method and worked very hard. Many others tried the wild speculation/test method; they failed and some died. Progress requires tons of effort for every bit of insight.

Lastly, I respect your use of the word “might.” I used “opinion” when I condemned aura (reply 289). I’m not stating a fact because I can’t prove it’s impossible. This point is at the heart of my problem with Midas and Real de Tayopa because that they make various statements as if they were facts, which is very misleading (I’m being nice). If they had said something like “I believe buried gold gives off visible gas…”, I would never have bothered with any of this. No one has to justify their opinion.

Peace all,

Jim

 

[Functional]

Hi,

This just keeps going round and round; what fun there is in confusion.

Victorio didn’t believe in auras “…Until I saw them............. Several Times.” Here’s a tip if you used ALL CAPITALS your statement would be more persuasive.

Functional said "image intensifiers cover a wider range of the spectrum including X-rays and Gamma rays." No, they don't. They use silicon photodiodes which are sensitive to visible and near-infrared (~400-100nm). Your reference clearly states infrared in several places and calls specifically out 800-900nm which is near-infrared.

Are you referring to this link?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_intensifier
The one that starts the page with this statement:
"An Image Intensifier Tube is a vacuum tube device for increasing the intensity of available light in an optical system to allow use under low light conditions such as at night, to facilitate visual imaging of low-light processes such as fluorescence of materials to X-rays or Gamma rays, or for conversion of non-visible light sources such as near-infrared or short wave infrared to visible."

I admit, I was tired. Not asleep though.

In a later post he also says “…established science doesn't seem to know, of any "emanations" caused by gold, silver and other precious metals that would result in an "aura" being detected by a digital imaging device, that doesn't mean that it couldn't happen.” Perhaps not but, it does lower the probability to a very very very small value. This very small number approximates the probability that treasure auras exist.

Small enough of a probability that I'm not going to trade in my gold pan, or metal detector any time soon.
<---------------------------------- snip ------------------------------------>
I won’t bother you with my rants anymore.

Jim

[/quote]

I heard a rumor that ranting is a punishable offence.
Thankfully I usually only pop in when its late and I'm too tired for a long rant and the screen is looking kinda blurry.

F.

 

[jb7487]

You failed to mention the various treasures that I have found, and posted, especially the recovery of 7 mule loads of 8 Reales, basically due to a fire / luminous gas - precisely what these gentlemen are attempting to see if they can record on film.

We don't need to mention it as you appear to take every opportunity to mention it yourself. Yet... you have never given us any proof that you found this stuff solely due to some fire/luminous gas. You may have seen a fire or luminous gas but you have also said that these gases/fires are never over the gold in question and can be quite a distance away. So forgive me if I have trouble connecting your discovery of gold with the presence of some luminous gas that is supposedly never actually over the gold itself. Perhaps you could explain that a little better as it doesn't make much sense to me. It would be like me saying that pigs like to root around near gold but never near the gold itself. I find a pig rooting around and then find gold 200 yards away by following treasure signs. Does that mean that pigs can find gold? Or is it just a coincidence? Does the pig rooting around have anything whatsoever to do with the presence of the gold? Just because I claim cause and effect does not make it so. Have you found more than one cache based on gases/fires or is the one you claim to have found by this means the only one? Please elaborate.

With all due respect, fire/luminous gas is also not the same thing as an aura that is invisible to the naked eye but able to be captured by a camera. This thread is about capturing invisible auras yet you insist on comparing apples to oranges and lumping visible fire/gasses in with the lot. They may indeed be related somehow but not necessarily so and having you trumpet your claims as the truth without proof and claiming a direct correlation does nothing to help in this discussion. This discussion is about taking a picture of a location that has gold buried in it and post processing the picture to the point of being able to locate the gold directly. That is a far cry from finding a visible fire/luminous gas out in the field and then following treasure markers to some hidden cache. Even if fire/luminous gasses can point the way to hidden gold, it does not prove or have any relation to capturing auras using a digital camera. The OP and author of the book in question is making claims that do not rely on the presence of gases or fires. He is claiming that anyone can do this at any time with any camera.

 

[VICTORIO]

jb7487 Wrote " you have never given us any proof that you found this stuff solely due to some fire/luminous gas."

These Gasses/ Fires are real and sometimes poisonous. I have seen these fires/ gasses myself. I " WILL " also within a short time also recover a Treasure because of these gasses. Real de Tayopa has said that he and some people heard or knew about one of these fires in an area. He used a metal detector to pin point the location and recovered the Treasure. The reason Real de Tayopa keeps mentioning his find is because people keep asking for " PROOF ". He does not mention it to brag. The man don't need to brag or proof anything to anyone. " HE OWNS TAYOPA ". My God Sir, he even posted a photo of the treasure with his wife next to it. WHAT MORE PROOF DO YOU NEED. These gasses / Fires/ Auras what ever you wish to call them lead to Treasure. Take it or leave it. The less people that don't beleave us the more Treasure left in the ground for the rest of us that do beleave it.

ASI DE SIMPLE !!!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning my friends: Stogie, I thank you for your post, it clarifies many things -- hmmm.-->

Real de Tayopa because that they make various statements as if they were facts, which is very misleading (I’m being nice).
~~~~~~~~~~~
In all posts or statements, some contain facts, some conjectures, some speculative data. many are simply of the stuff that dreams are made of --- today ! The same applies for any investigative procedure, such as we have here, regardless of it's acceptability or conformability with the established protocols of Science, or Sciences own investigations for that matter.. To get outside of any box one must go to the dream world, otherwise there is no advancement since without it there is no direction or goal.

In this case, the recovery of the 8 Reales was FACT, a photograph was shown, however it is readily admitted that almost anything can be submitted as proof on the net, including diplomas, experience, qualifications, etc.,etc. regardless of actually being factual or applicable .

The Conditions necessary for a luminous gas to exist are based upon common chemical reactions with various metals, including gold. These chemicals are found in the soil in varying strengths and quantities. This, as well as the physical matrix of the soil itself, determines whether the buried metal develops a visible gas or not. The exit point of a Luminous gas very rarely occurs directly over the metal.

Personal observations while doing some Assay work on my mines and checking out the rumors of fires indicating buried metals, among a myriad of other things, has led to my formation of the postulate of the why and wherefore..

At no time have I flatly stated that this or that, regarding an actual luminous gas, is a fact.. I have always attempted to show the distinct or almost certainty of something occurring, but not a positive fact. If you have seen any, please bring it to the room's attention. I was taught in Premed, to never state that anything in Nature is fixed, especially after reading the Holistic Universe theory. One interpretation is that Theoretically, everything can exist simultaneously both pro and con, past present and future. Soooo?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[jb7487]

Real de Tayopa has said that he and some people heard or knew about one of these fires in an area. He used a metal detector to pin point the location and recovered the Treasure.

See my point later on about cause and effect. But what this tells me is simply that the fire led to a "hunch" about a treasure being present. I may also be right in assuming that the presence of such gases and fires also improves the likelyhood that caves and caverns are present. And caves and caverns improve the likelihood of Spanish treasure caches being present in certain areas. Unfortunately, the area I live in is not such an area. But it is highly likely that although the gas indirectly led to finding a treasure, it was NOT necessarily caused directly by the treasure itself. This is a simple cause and effect relationship that appears to have been glossed over.

My God Sir, he even posted a photo of the treasure with his wife next to it.

Calm down. At no point have I doubted that he has found this treasure. I only doubt his claims that these gases come from gold. As stated before, gases can lead me to a treasure yet not come directly from the treasure itself.

These gasses / Fires/ Auras what ever you wish to call them lead to Treasure. Take it or leave it.

Again, this thread is about seeing "auras" with a digital camera. I am happy to believe that the presence of visible gases/fires implies the presence of caverns which increases the likelihood of finding hidden Spanish caches in certain areas. I am not likely to believe that gold gives off visible gases without any sort of proof at all. Especially when the people claiming it here contradict themselves regularly by saying that the gas is never present at the gold itself and is often many hundreds of yards or even miles away. To me that implies that there is no direct cause and effect relationship that can be proven.

In this case, the recovery of the 8 Reales was FACT, a photograph was shown,

I have never doubted the authenticity of the photo or that claim. I see no reason why you would make up such a thing. By the way, did you actually see the fire yourself or just hear from others that there was one in the area?

The Conditions necessary for a luminous gas to exist are based upon common chemical reactions with various metals, including gold. These chemicals are found in the soil in varying strengths and quantities. This, as well as the physical matrix of the soil itself, determines whether the buried metal develops a visible gas or not. The exit point of a Luminous gas very rarely occurs directly over the metal.

This is what I'm talking about. You state this all as if it is fact yet provide no proof whatsoever of your claims. You don't say "it is possible that luminous gases are based upon common chemical reactions". You state that the "are based". You have no proof of this other than the fact that someone saw a luminous gas and then managed to find treasure in the area somewhere using a metal detector. This is all your own personal belief yet you belittle anyone out here who asks for proof or disagrees with you.

My intention is not to insult. My intention is to show that the OP and many people here are making grandiose claims about auras, gases, and fires in relation to treasure. Yet not one of you have provided one shred of credible evidence to back up your claims. I don't even require absolute proof. Just show me that there is a reasonable cause and effect relationship. But all anyone has done is provide pure speculation and fairly poor speculation at that. "Someone saw a gas which led me to go out searching in a certain area. I found treasure somewhere in the general vacinity. Therefore, gold gives off a gas". Well guess what? I saw a pig rooting around in the dirt yesterday. I took my detector and within 100 yards of the pig found a silver coin. Therefore, I believe that pigs can smell the gas that silver coins give off. Follow the pigs and find the silver. Now isn't that about the biggest crock of crap you've ever heard? Surely you would not believe such a thing. Yet my story is just as credible as yours.

If you want to spend your time and money chasing auras and gases then be my guest. But please don't state your beliefs as fact and attempt to belittle others who disagree with you.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good afternoon JB: You posted -->

I have trouble connecting your discovery of gold with the presence of some luminous gas that is supposedly never actually over the gold itself. Perhaps you could explain that a little better as it doesn't make much sense to me
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Decomposing metal is constantly giving off this luminous materiel, however in almost all cases, it isn't concentrated enough to be seen, especially in day light. So for a visual sighting to occur it needs a special set of circumstances which also dictate where and when it may be visible. It is almost never over the actual deposit it self..

The basic conditions require an adobe type soil which is impervious and it must also contain the necessary chemicals, and naturally the metal.. As the metal undergoes this decomposition, one of the products is this luminous materiel, but in a dry adobe soil it cannot escape, so it accumulates. Generally when the first rains arrive in the areas where Adobe soil is found, they loosen the soil enough so that the accumulated luminous materiel is able to escape. Many times the layer over the metal isn't softened enough, so the gas continues spreading out until it finds an exit. This distance may be from exactly overhead to a100 meters.

It is just that simple.
****************************************************************************************************

You also posted -->

Have you found more than one cache based on gases/fires or
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, one other, but most finds were simply old pieces of scrap metal or tin cans from old campsites or ruins of old homes., So I personally do not go out of my way to look for the reasons for these luminous gases, unless there is a backing story.
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You also posted -->

This thread is about capturing invisible auras yet you insist on comparing apples to oranges and lumping visible fire/gasses in with the lot
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Frankly, just what is the difference between an aura and a luminous gas? The camera technique is a possible means of detecting an 'extremely low' quantity of luminous gas, or as you state an aura, which is effectively the same.
******************************************************************************************************

You posted ->
He is claiming that anyone can do this at any time with any camera.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Once the technique is perfected, if it ever will be, yes, I agree that it will be.

Just a few years ago, did anyone imagine that they could see a human behind a tree in daylight, or in a pitch black night, hundreds of meters away simply by the IR of his body, and also capture this image on film Or even more fantastic see where he had been hours or days later?

Not long ago, I was sent an article by an scientist friend of mine who noticed that recently experimenters, utilizing extremely powerful Lazers, modified the atomic structure of aluminum, making it transparent. Sheesh who woulda thunk it?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[jb7487]

It is just that simple.

It isn't just that simple because everything you just said is completely made up and not based on any scientific evidence or even common sense. You are telling me that gold decomposes in adobe soil and only adobe soil. Yet you fail to tell us just why this is. You also fail to tell us why so many people see these suppossed "treasure lights" in areas that are void of adobe soil. Finally, when you dug up all of those reales did you happen to notice how terribly "decomposed" they were? If these gases you speak of come from the gold decomposing, why is it that all of this gold treasure that everyone seems to dig up is not the slightest bit decomposed? You are pulling this stuff out of your butt and it doesn't even make sense. This gas is never around the gold, the gold is not decomposed at all, and the only reason why you associate these gases with treasure is because you truly want to believe it is true. I'm starting to wonder if you've ever really even seen these gases at all. You've never actually found any treasure that was directly related to them as far as I can tell.

Frankly, just what is the difference between an aura and a luminous gas? The camera technique is a possible means of detecting an 'extremely low' quantity of luminous gas, or as you state an aura, which is effectively the same.

I don't believe they are the same thing. You are trying to equate them which is why I'm questioning you about your gas claims in the first place. Put it this way. We have cameras that can sense the heat coming off of the street. Is this an aura? No. We have cameras that can see the luminous gas inside of a neon sign. Is that an aura? No. You are equating them simply because you perceive that they are both connected to finding treasure in some way. But your gases are not related to treasure at all as far as I can see. And visible auras are a myth created to sell books. So I see no correlation at all between what you believe to be true and the snakeoil being sold by the OP.

Sheesh who woulda thunk it?

Just because there are things that are unknown to us doesn't mean that everything we want to be true has a decent chance of coming to pass. That is a copout for investigating the truth. I think the truth is that you never even saw the gas. You are lucky enough to live in an area that has Spanish treasure in it (most of us aren't). You spent a considerable amount of time searching around for treasure in your area (or maybe you just got darn lucky). You followed common sense and even treasure signs that lead you to some reasonable places to search. And you found treasure. But you don't even know if there really ever even was any luminous gas in that area as it was all heresay. Yet you never tire of throwing your theories of treasure gases in our faces and talking down to us like it is "just that simple" that even an idiot should be able to figure it out. Yet we can't make heads or tails of it because it is a figment of your imagination.

I'm sorry, but the stuff you are shoveling is getting tiresome.

 

[StogieJim]

Functional,

(re: x-rays & gamma rays)

I was wrong and I'm sorry. I read your post incorrectly.

Peace,

Jim

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

JB:
Sigh I can see your problem now, you do not do any research with an open mind nor apparently understand what you are reading..

A) You posted-->

You are telling me that gold decomposes in adobe soil and only adobe soil.
~~~~~~~~~~~

I posted -->

"The Conditions necessary for a luminous gas to exist are based upon common chemical reactions with various metals, including gold. These chemicals are found in the soil in varying strengths and quantities. This, as well as the physical matrix of the soil itself, determines whether the buried metal develops a visible gas or not".

"So for a visual sighting to occur it needs a special set of circumstances which also dictate where and when it may be visible.

I do not see where I ever said "that it occurs only in Adobe soil". I did say that for enough of this luminous gas to be visual -->
The basic conditions require an adobe type soil which is impervious and it must also contain the necessary chemicals, and naturally the metal.. As the metal undergoes this decomposition, one of the products is this luminous materiel, but in a dry adobe soil it cannot escape, so it accumulates
****************************************************************************************************

You posted -->
"If these gases you speak of come from the gold decomposing, why is it that all of this gold treasure that everyone seems to dig up is not the slightest bit decomposed?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

First, Just how much gold is used in a multi storied Hi-rise building on the windows to block IR radiation? Or perhaps better stated, per sq, ft of window area? Just how do they achieve this film of Gold on the windows? Interesting, also what frequencies does it block and which does it pass?
*******************************************************************************************************

You posted-->

It isn't just that simple because everything you just said is completely made up and not based on any scientific evidence or even common sense. You are telling me that gold decomposes in adobe soil and only adobe soil.

Yet you fail to tell us just why this is
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you had done your homework, you would have understood that all of the necessary chemicals required for Gold, or any metal, to be decomposed are found in the soil, especially Adobe ones, either from organic causes or strictly chemical ones.
*******************************************************************************************************

I posted -->
Frankly, just what is the difference between an aura and a luminous gas?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You posted -->
I don't believe they are the same thing. You are trying to equate them which is why I'm questioning you about your gas
claims in the first place
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry, but they both are simply common descriptions of frequencies. So in common nomenclature, they are the same even though their ranges are different. Nature goes from 'one to infinity' smoothly. There are no steps, just a continuous flow of basics, harmonics and sub harmonics. The human eye / brain complex is very limited to just a very, very, narrow range of them.
*******************************************************************************************************

You also posted -->

"I'm sorry, but the stuff you are shoveling is getting tiresome."

~~~~~~~~~~~
Fortunately, I am enough of a gentleman, and educated enough to not to have to respond to this childness. But, in the interests of those that are truly interested in learning something, whether right or wrong, I have, and will.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[jb7487]

I do not see where I ever said "that it occurs only in Adobe soil".

I apologize. You said "The basic conditions require an adobe type soil ". I took this to mean that it only happens in adobe soil (usually something that "requires" something else means that it only happens if that something else is present). If that's not what you meant then I misunderstood you. So I take it you are saying that it happens in other types of soils but happens most often in adobe soil.

First, Just how much gold is used in a multi storied Hi-rise building on the windows to block IR radiation? Or perhaps better stated, per sq, ft of window area? Just how do they achieve this film of Gold on the windows? Interesting, also what frequencies does it block and which does it pass?

I noticed that you completely tap danced around the most important question in my post. I'll ask it again... If these gases you speak of come from the gold decomposing, why is it that all of this gold treasure that everyone seems to dig up is not the slightest bit decomposed? Wouldn't you think that in the tens of thousands of years that man has been digging up gold, if there was any decomposition visible at all that science would have latched onto that and it would be well known? The reales you dug up were not the slightest bit decomposed yet you claim it was the decomposition of these reales that caused the gas that led you to find them in the first place (more on that later). How about naturally occurring gold? Wouldn't your theory imply that it would be nearly impossible for gold to occur naturally in adobe soil because after millions of years it would all be decomposed? Yet adobe soil is one of the best places to find naturally occurring gold.

More to your point, they don't "decompose" gold to put it on those windows. They use other processes. They also use other processes to plate electronic components with gold in various mixtures. Note that once plated these components do not continue to "decompose" and do not produce any gases. And the processes used to plate those things do not create luminous gases of any kind. But that was a nice try at diverting our attention away from the real question with a meaningless question of your own.

If you had done your homework, you would have understood that all of the necessary chemicals required for Gold, or any metal, to be decomposed are found in the soil, especially Adobe ones, either from organic causes or strictly chemical ones.

I don't see how it is possible to "do my homework" since this information only exists in your mind. There is no information available other than wild speculation about how gold decomposes in the soil.

Sorry, but they both are simply common descriptions of frequencies. So in common nomenclature, they are the same even though their ranges are different.

Again, they are only the same to you because you have given them similar purposes. They are not at all alike. You state that decomposition must occur and that adobe soil is a key attribute. The OP states that you can put gold in any soil and take a picture of it. There is no decomposition required and the results can be seen immediately. You have also suddenly given gases the concept of "frequencies" which I find quite surprising. That is certainly a new one on me.

Fortunately, I am enough of a gentleman, and educated enough to not to have to respond to this childness.

I see. It is a good thing that I am too. With the way you belittle everyone out here (James, myself and others) with quips like "nor apparently understand what you are reading.." and such I find it hard to believe that you see yourself as being any different than anyone else out here.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Jb: to answer some of your legitimate questions. You posted -->

I apologize
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Frankly my friend, that isn't necessary, just an open ended discussion, understanding of what is still basically theoretical, but useful.
*******************************************************************************************************

You also posted -->
why is it that all of this gold treasure that everyone seems to dig up is not the slightest bit decomposed?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) How can we ever know the precise original weight, even with coins? without this, we cannot say that, nor can we say just how much might be needed for the development of a luminous gas. How much Gold is needed for IR blocking effect for a sq. meter of glass? More important, just how much is required to form this bit of visible gas?
******************************************************************************************************
You posted -->

The reales you dug up were not the slightest bit decomposed yet you claim it was the decomposition of these reales that caused the gas that led you to find them in the first place
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) How do you know that? Do you believe that I would post the most eroded, unrecognisable coin, or the least eroded one?
******************************************************************************************************

You posted -->

Wouldn't your theory imply that it would be nearly impossible for gold to occur naturally in adobe soil because after millions of years it would all be decomposed? Yet adobe soil is one of the best places to find naturally occurring gold.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) I am afraid that you are mistaken on Adobe soil being a good place to find Gold. Sorry. Just what IS Adobe soil?
******************************************************************************************************

You posted -->

they don't "decompose" gold to put it on those windows
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) In the strictest term, perhaps, but it is generally vaporized under precise conditions. The layer is deposited in a micron thick layer, hence effectively transparent..
******************************************************************************************************

You posted -->

Note that once plated these components do not continue to "decompose" and do not produce any gases. And the processes used to plate those things do not create luminous gases of any kind.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) I presume that you have noticed that this is not being done in 'Adobe soils ', with the necessary chemicals? And yes, under certain conditions they DO decompose. In milling and processing Gold we never use metallic Gold watches, only cheap plastic ones.
******************************************************************************************************

You posted -->

don't see how it is possible to "do my homework" since this information only exists in your mind. There is no information available other than wild speculation about how gold decomposes in the soil.
~~~~~~~~~~~~\
A) Just how do you think that the various forms of Gold are created, such as the Chlorides, Halides, Cyanides etc etc.
*****************************************************************************************************

You posted -->

The OP states that you can put gold in any soil and take a picture of it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A) I said that the theoretical possibility exists Quote -->

********************
C) Gold readily goes into a visible ionic stage in much of the west where the soil conditions are amendable, i.e. have the various chemicals readily available. Cyanide, chlorine, the halides etc., and on.

D) The amount of Au necessary for this effect is almost infinitesimal to produce the so called "Treasure lights" which are famous in the west and have been used to successfully recover many treasures. I myself have recovered 7 mule loads of 8 Reales by this means. I have posted this picture, which swr vividly remembers hehehhe.

E) In theory it is quite conceivable that buried metal can be detected by a camera which is far, far more sensitive to certain energies than the human senses are supposedly capable of receiving. If it can be adapted to find buried precious metals so be it, nothing supernatural about that.

F) May I suggest that you search some of the latest Geochemical and geological tools for investigating metals 1000's of feet underground now being utilized to successfully find economical mineral bodies.
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You posted -->

With the way you belittle everyone out here (James, myself and others) with quips like "nor apparently understand what you are reading.." and such I find it hard to believe that you see yourself as being any different than anyone else out here.
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A) I don't, but I do tend to react to some remarks, but mostly for deprecating remarks to others. The following are the total of such remarks that I have posted on this subject. Responses to which the following answers were made. In no case did I initiate the questionable personal remarks. In the no. of years that I have been posting in TN, I defy anyone to say that I initiated, or insulted anyone first.
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A) This includes every one of my posts that could be construed as being a bit depreciative, and every one was in 'response to a previous post ' that wasn't very complementary. I agree, I shouldn't react. sorry

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Sheesh Jim, you certainly haven't done your home work. There are dozens of natural conditions in which Au decomposes in the ground. In doing so, it gives off energy which may be in the visible spectrum or anywhere else in the energy spectrum.
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good morning Stogie, not belittling your scholastic achievement or abilities in any way, especially in your field, but suggesting that you should study a bit more with an 'open' mind. Many of the natural occurrences of Gold Decomposition or conversions / combinations in Nature are utilized in normal commercial recovery processes. Cyanide's, Halides, Acids, Mercury, and on. Need I mention the Oceans
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As for the remark that "a Wikipedia review is acceptable", well that doesn't deserve an answer, nor does it enhance my opinion of you favorably by using that as a reference.
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'Sigh swr, this confirms my thoughts on your efficiency in research '
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At no time have I flatly stated that this or that, regarding an actual luminous gas, is a fact.. I have always attempted to show the distinct or almost certainty of something occurring, but not a positive fact. If you have seen any, please bring it to the room's attention. I was taught in Premed, to never state that anything in Nature is fixed, especially after reading the Holistic Universe theory. One interpretation is that Theoretically, everything can exist simultaneously both pro and con, past present and future. Soooo?


.
Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi peeps: Let's get bk to what we came here for, can an image of a buried metal object be picked up with a digital camera? You all, especially stogie with his intimate knowledge and access to advanced data, can contribute a great amount, just don't be negative, but discuss what can actually be done to achieve this..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[jb7487]

How can we ever know the precise original weight, even with coins?....

Let's face it. With pretty much every other decomposable substance in the world, decomposition leaves clearly visible effects. If anyone had ever dug up visibly decomposed gold coins you'd know it. Science would be all over it. But in tens of thousands of years no one has ever reported visibly "decomposed" gold. To me this is the nail in the coffin of your theory. Surely somewhere along the line in all the years man has been digging up gold the conditions would have been right for this gas to have formed in enough volume to have visibly affected the gold drastically. That's the way nature works.

How do you know that? Do you believe that I would post the most eroded, unrecognisable coin, or the least eroded one?

And yet you continue to tap dance around the question. So were any of the coins visibly "decomposed" or not? I'm guessing by the way you keep failing to answer the question that the coins were not noticibly decomposed.

Sorry. Just what IS Adobe soil?

You're asking me?!?! You are the one making all the claims about adobe soil. I just gave you the benefit of the doubt. From what I can tell it is a heavy clay and is actually quite common in a lot of areas. And yes, those areas have naturally occurring gold. You don't think that the Spaniards dug all that gold up from somewhere else and transported it over vast miles from clear across the globe to put it in that adobe soil do you? Well, some of it was transported. But a heck of a lot of it was native to the area. That's why it ended up being burried there in the first place.

Just how do you think that the various forms of Gold are created, such as the Chlorides, Halides, Cyanides etc etc

Not through "decomposition". By maybe we are just arguing semantics.

Hi peeps: Let's get bk to what we came here for,

Agreed. Let's just agree to disagree on all of this and move on. I hope there are no hard feelings. I really do think that your find of the Spanish reales is excellent. If you have a link that discusses the techniques you used to find them I'd love to read the whole story. I tend to believe that it was quite an adventure with the treasures gases playing only a very minor role in the actual discovery.

Take care.

 

[VICTORIO]

jb7487 Wrote " Agreed. Let's just agree to disagree on all of this and move on. I hope there are no hard feelings. I really do think that your find of the Spanish reales is excellent. "

Thank You very Much jb 7487 Sir. You said it, agree to disagree and No hard feelings. This is what it's all about. Now we can all move on and try to learn something.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gentlemen: I have been trying to give an impartial evaluation on this subject for the benefit of those that are inclined to experiment on a relatively unknown physical process, recording on film a buried metal's signature, and encourage them to keep experimenting on a side subject that has helped me earn a nice living for some 50 years of treasure hunting. I am content with my findings and actual success, and enjoyed my impossible, err, ah, 'fabricated' results.

I would suggest that our critics and deniers post 'their' successful results to establish their credentials to speak with authority.

My purpose in posting on this subject, is not to feed my ego, as a few of our negative posters obviously 'need' to do, but to present enough extremely basic data which can actually be easily verified by anyone willing to do the research, and has an IQ of at least 80. Hmm do you suppose---? And utilize it to further their experiments.

My ego does not require a series of 'one up' posts so I will only post supporting data for the ongoing series of experiments, not respond to silly, little grade school taunts, challenges, and flat no's. these things actually do not impress me, or interest me. In fact in a way, I feel sorry for this narrow type of thinking.

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. To forestall a line of silly posts regarding my basic intelligence, reasoning, or whatever, I was associated with MENSA, with a certified variable IQ of 140 -160. Binet, I am a duly elected member of the elite Explorers club, and a certified Tropical Tramp, I.E. Treasure Hunting Bum.

www.Explorers.org