Digging the Roots

[franklin]

Huh. I read on Wiki Morris got bit in land speculating after former partner Greenleaf ( doing time in debtors prison) sued him and Morris himself ended up doing time till the 1800 bankruptcy act sprung him before his death a few years later.
Must be he managed to retain some land holdings to allow leaving the other Morris money from his will?

Quite a character though with lots of cleverness and no fear of big deals.

If you will research Robert Morriss that signed the DOI you will find out we would not have a country if it had not been for his cleverness and no fear of big deals. He paid over 40 times more than the 13 colonies combined for our freedom. He also recommended Alexander Hamilton to be the first Secretary of the Treasury and over the National Bank. General George Washington would not have crossed the Delaware had it not been for Robert Morriss riding up and paying George Washington money for the troops back pay( his own money). It seems they refused to move with out being paid. If anyone should have been remembered by Americans it should have been Robert Morriss not Washington, not Franklin, not Jefferson or Adams.

Also he was sent to Debtor's Prison because of a land deal with one of bigscoop's characters mentioned in a 7 million acre contract. Morriss did not get paid on time. Also while in Debtor's Prison he paid out millions of dollars he owed and was still able to conduct his business. Our government had no business putting this man in Debtor's Prison they should have kissed his boots and the ground he walked on.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

So, Robert MORRISS' signature is on the DOI...?

 

[franklin]

So, Robert MORRISS' signature is on the DOI...?

OK Rebel-KGC, Rob Morris, that is the way he always signed his name. And sometimes Robt Morris and Robert Morris. He never did use the second letter "S" on the end of his name. However, his half nephew Robert Morris of Lynchburg did sometimes sign his name Robert Morrifs or Robert Morriss. I hope you understand it can be both ways and has been done both ways as Mayor of Lyncburg and as his businesses of which I have his signature.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

OK Rebel-KGC, Rob Morris, that is the way he always signed his name. And sometimes Robt Morris and Robert Morris. He never did use the second letter "S" on the end of his name. However, his half nephew Robert Morris of Lynchburg did sometimes sign his name Robert Morrifs or Robert Morriss. I hope you understand it can be both ways and has been done both ways as Mayor of Lyncburg and as his businesses of which I have his signature.

Can you "post" his signature...? THANKS!

 

[franklin]

Can you "post" his signature...? THANKS!

No this new computer has to have apps and I do not know how to make it work. I believe I will go back and try to piece my old computer together. I hate this new SH--.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

AGREE! Thanks for the warning...

 

[Garry]

I bought the Peter V book and just fiished reading it through. Pretty interesting! I see where the roots of a lot of the subjects being discussed on here come from.

I ran across a reference, elsewhere, that referred to the Norvell-Otey Cemetery in Lynchburg. I couldn't find it on findagrave. Does it have another name?

Garry

 

[franklin]

I bought the Peter V book and just fiished reading it through. Pretty interesting! I see where the roots of a lot of the subjects being discussed on here come from.

I ran across a reference, elsewhere, that referred to the Norvell-Otey Cemetery in Lynchburg. I couldn't find it on findagrave. Does it have another name?

Garry

I have not looked for it. There is an old Otey Cemetery in Bedford City. It is in a alley behind a church on the opposite side of the road from the Bedford County Courthouse. I have photos somewhere but don't know where they are--------I took them over 25 years ago.

 

[Garry]

Thanks Franklin,

After I posted, I did find the following information. It looks like it goes by the name of Radcliffe. I did find that on Findagrave

The Norvell-Otey Cemetery is located beside the Lynchburg Expressway (Rt.29) between two manufacturing plants C. B. Fleet and Flow-Serve. It also has another name which I believe is Radcliffe as the family property was known at one time.

To visit the cemetery, I just drove into the Flow-Serve parking lot and walked a few feet to it. I don’t know if that’s the correct procedure but there must certainly be was some provision for visitation and I figured this was one of those cases where it would be more practical to seek forgiveness rather than permission. The cemetery is enclosed by a nice stone wall but was much overgrown when I was there.

I'm also confused about the government resources in the Independent City of Lynchburg and the County of Campbell.

Doe each entity keep its own Land Deed Records?

It appears that both entities have there own court system? It also appears the Lynchburg has a City Court that may be separate?

For example, are the marriages that occurred in Lynchburg seperate from those that occurred in Campbell County? I'm just trying to get a handle on the repository where each type of government document resides.

Thanks in advance fo any guidence,

Garry

 

[franklin]

Thanks Franklin,

After I posted, I did find the following information. It looks like it goes by the name of Radcliffe. I did find that on Findagrave

The Norvell-Otey Cemetery is located beside the Lynchburg Expressway (Rt.29) between two manufacturing plants C. B. Fleet and Flow-Serve. It also has another name which I believe is Radcliffe as the family property was known at one time.

To visit the cemetery, I just drove into the Flow-Serve parking lot and walked a few feet to it. I don’t know if that’s the correct procedure but there must certainly be was some provision for visitation and I figured this was one of those cases where it would be more practical to seek forgiveness rather than permission. The cemetery is enclosed by a nice stone wall but was much overgrown when I was there.

I'm also confused about the government resources in the Independent City of Lynchburg and the County of Campbell.

Doe each entity keep its own Land Deed Records?

It appears that both entities have there own court system? It also appears the Lynchburg has a City Court that may be separate?

For example, are the marriages that occurred in Lynchburg seperate from those that occurred in Campbell County? I'm just trying to get a handle on the repository where each type of government document resides.

Thanks in advance fo any guidence,

Garry

You will find City of Lynchburg records in Lynchburg and Campbell Country Deeds and Wills at Rustburg the county seat. They have records at both places and then some of their records are for only the City of Lynchburg. I have never checked the city records. A lot of records are in Rustburg, It sure would be nice to find the city records they may be kept better than the country records. The country records are very difficult to locate and to pin down. Their system of order is out of order.

 

[ECS]

Paschal Buford's son, Rowland D Buford, who was Bedford county clerk, stated that there was NO family of Beale's month long stay at Buford's, as mentioned in the Beale Papers.

 

[Garry]

I realize I’m jumping around on this research but I’m trying to find some more “stakes” I can drive in the ground. (Facts with sources!) My focus is presently on Robert and Sarah Morriss.

A couple of quick questions:

How solid is the information that Sarah Morriss’ maiden name was Mitchell? (I’m striking out)

What is the earliest year that Robert and Sarah Morriss can be placed in the City of Lynchburgh? (Deed, Newspaper, etc.)

BTW, does anyone know whether the 1810 census for Campbell County has survived?

On Ancestry.com when I call up the Campbell County census in 1810, I only see the 1810 census for Lynchburg and I can’t find Robert and Sarah in that database.

Thanks for any help,

Garry

 

[franklin]

I realize I’m jumping around on this research but I’m trying to find some more “stakes” I can drive in the ground. (Facts with sources!) My focus is presently on Robert and Sarah Morriss.

A couple of quick questions:

How solid is the information that Sarah Morriss’ maiden name was Mitchell? (I’m striking out)

What is the earliest year that Robert and Sarah Morriss can be placed in the City of Lynchburgh? (Deed, Newspaper, etc.)

BTW, does anyone know whether the 1810 census for Campbell County has survived?

On Ancestry.com when I call up the Campbell County census in 1810, I only see the 1810 census for Lynchburg and I can’t find Robert and Sarah in that database.

Thanks for any help,

Garry

Sarah Morriss' maiden name was Mitchell. That is solid. She married Robert Morriss in Loudoun County, Virginia. Robert Morriss' sister married Sarah's brother and had several children. I will not give specifics as I want to keep that for right now.

Robert Morriss started buying up property in 1809 I have a copy of all his deeds but I would have to go through tons of research to find it. I have his business records before he left Maryland, also.

The 1810 Census Records can be found on line. go to archive.org/details/1810 Robert Morriss is listed on the fifth and last page of the Lynchburg City Census Records then it goes to the Campbell County Census and yes the Census Records for 1810 have survived. You will have to look under the 3rd Virginia Census of 1810. It is on Microcopy 252 Roll 68 and was microcopied in 1958.

 

[ECS]

Robert Morris and John B Otey were in business together in 1820, and Ward's wife, Harriet Otey, who was born and raised "four miles from Buford's" knew Robert Morris since her childhood.

 

[franklin]

Robert Morris and John B Otey were in business together in 1820, and Ward's wife, Harriet Otey, who was born and raised "four miles from Buford's" knew Robert Morris since her childhood.

Yes and James Beverly Ward was in the sawmill business with Paschal Buford's son on Goose Creek in Bedford County cutting railroad ties for the future railroad to Lynchburg from Roanoke. And Newton Hazelwood was head auditor for the railroad and very good with figures.

 

[Garry]

Thanks Guys,

The 1810 census was there just as advertised.

I'm still striking out on the Loudoun County Morriss marriage. From what I've seen the marriages on the various web sites seem to be pretty complete for Loudoun so I will have to be content to wait until someone is able to share the detailed source.

I have kind of been skirting the Oteys. It looks easy to become confused but I'll tackle that family one of these days.

Franklin,

I've been working on a scenario in which I believe I have identified a couple of nieces of Robert Morriss whom I also suspect were raised by Robert and Sarah after their mother died. I'm hesitant to post all of the background but I suspect you have gone down this trail and you may be holding back because the final nail hasn't been driven in your story. My scenario is certainly preliminary and I will not post it if you believe it might compromise your work. (It's certainly your story, along with ECS and Reb's to tell)

Garry

 

[franklin]

Thanks Guys,

The 1810 census was there just as advertised.

I'm still striking out on the Loudoun County Morriss marriage. From what I've seen the marriages on the various web sites seem to be pretty complete for Loudoun so I will have to be content to wait until someone is able to share the detailed source.

I have kind of been skirting the Oteys. It looks easy to become confused but I'll tackle that family one of these days.

Franklin,

I've been working on a scenario in which I believe I have identified a couple of nieces of Robert Morriss whom I also suspect were raised by Robert and Sarah after their mother died. I'm hesitant to post all of the background but I suspect you have gone down this trail and you may be holding back because the final nail hasn't been driven in your story. My scenario is certainly preliminary and I will not post it if you believe it might compromise your work. (It's certainly your story, along with ECS and Reb's to tell)

Garry

Post what you know if you want to it does not interfere with my work and research.

 

[ECS]

...

I have kind of been skirting the Oteys. It looks easy to become confused but I'll tackle that family one of these days...

The Otey family has been involved with those involved with the Beale story by various connections.
Robert Morris was in business with an Otey
John William Sherman's mother was an Otey
James Beverly Ward's wife was an Otey and he was also in business with an Otey.
An Otey was a manager of Lynchburg's Washington Hotel.
Clayton Hart's wife was an Otey.
It was an Otey that had shown Pauline Innis an iron box with a torn number covered slip of paper.
There is a definite "shadow" presence of the Otey family in the creation of the Beale treasure legend.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Kinda thinking that TJB was an Otey...?

 

[franklin]

Kinda thinking that TJB was an Otey...?

TJB was known around the Buford's area as his father and mother lived near where Samuel Clemmons lived before they moved to Pennsylvania and Samuel Clemmons moved to what is now West Virginia. There he bleed to death when a broad axe hit him in the leg. He was not related to the Otey's. He was related to the Cooper Family that were explorers that opened up the road to Sante Fe Trail and the Overland roads to California. His ancestors made treaties with the Indians for a living.