DEERINGS TRAIL......

[cactusjumper]

Markmar,

I think you need a little more knowledge of the area before making statements like that. The most notable BOARDHOUSE was the one on the Quarter Circle U Ranch, and the second would be at the Milk Ranch in North Queen Valley. Take your pick.

Mike

Mike,

Which one was the one mentioned by Waltz?

Good luck,

Joe

 

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[markmar]

Markmar,

I think you need a little more knowledge of the area before making statements like that. The most notable BOARDHOUSE was the one on the Quarter Circle U Ranch, and the second would be at the Milk Ranch in North Queen Valley. Take your pick.

Mike

Mike

Believe you how from the Q Ranch can you see the trail on the first SW gorge .... ? Take your shovel .

 

[gollum]

Markmar,

The reason I don't usually do the back-and-forth when you start acting like you know exactly what you are talking about, is that you don't and it takes forever and I have to give geography, history, archaeology, and land navigation lessons. Sometimes I think you might be someone very knowledgeable, and you are doing this just to mess with everybody.

You are mixing up the directions on the letter Adolph Ruth had with what Waltz said. I won't detail it, but most people here will understand.

Joe,

It could have been either one of them or a couple of others. IF (and I say IF) the Pit Mine is the LDM, The Milk Ranch makes the most sense. You could just about throw a rock and hit the Pit Mine from Milk Ranch Creek(that is an exaggeration, but they are pretty close). THAT would be the easiest place to give directions to the Pit Mine from.

MIke

 

[markmar]

gollum

The debate started from the Julia's map , which in the most details fits with the Ruth's route . But , I am ready to take a geography, history, archaeology, and land navigation lessons supplement .

 

[Hal Croves]

Mike,

Which one was the one mentioned by Waltz?

Good luck,

Joe

Something about goats? Was it goat milk?

 

[cactusjumper]

Markmar,

The reason I don't usually do the back-and-forth when you start acting like you know exactly what you are talking about, is that you don't and it takes forever and I have to give geography, history, archaeology, and land navigation lessons. Sometimes I think you might be someone very knowledgeable, and you are doing this just to mess with everybody.

You are mixing up the directions on the letter Adolph Ruth had with what Waltz said. I won't detail it, but most people here will understand.

Joe,

It could have been either one of them or a couple of others. IF (and I say IF) the Pit Mine is the LDM, The Milk Ranch makes the most sense. You could just about throw a rock and hit the Pit Mine from Milk Ranch Creek(that is an exaggeration, but they are pretty close). THAT would be the easiest place to give directions to the Pit Mine from.

MIke

Mike,

That was one of my first thoughts, that Waltz may have meant the Milk Ranch. Problem with that is that it's not possible to point out a simple trail to the ridge above the Pit Mine.



I believe it's possible to see that ridge from the Bark Ranch.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

Randolph Canyon till it turns south, then go straight over the ridge and a bit South.

Mike

 

[Hal Croves]

A few images of the area.

View attachment 1170984View attachment 1170985View attachment 1170986View attachment 1170987View attachment 1170988View attachment 1170989

 

[somehiker]

What area Hal ?
All of those screenshots are from a high point barely a mile east of Tortilla Flat.
It IS a nice hike to that spot though. And great views of both Tortilla Creek and Peters Canyon.
And part way along Tom K's "monumented trail".

Regards:SH.

 

[Hal Croves]

What area Hal ?
All of those screenshots are from a high point barely a mile east of Tortilla Flat.
It IS a nice hike to that spot though. And great views of both Tortilla Creek and Peters Canyon.
And part way along Tom K's "monumented trail".

Regards:SH.

Yes, exactly. Close to the start of Tom K's monument trail.
Also the location of some controversial "things" for lack of a better word.
I know that you know what's there so, I will not try to describe it.
I did that with the Forest service and the resulting backlash was brutal.
Still, a great place to start any journey.

 

[markmar]

From Deering's description of the mine region :

" He also told Chuning there was a trick in the trail. Actually, he said it was a tunnel or a hole. “The trick is high up,” Deering would say, “but still you must go down to get to the trick in the trail.”

Waltz clue :



Two soldiers description :

"

They claimed it was in God-forsaken country and that they had to go through a tunnel between the peaks on a foot trail before stumbling upon it "

In the Latin heart is the FORNIX .


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[axer]

Greetings, I am new to the forum but have been researching the LDM since 2001 and want to thank everyone on this site for their endless contributions of information. The Deering story relates a simple route from Ft McDowell to a spring, then up an unusually large trail to an old mine tunnel high up near or in a small narrow canyon also near or on a big mountain. There are lots of other pieces of this and other stories but what I am looking for is more info on something I read about the initials J.W. and the date 1869 that has been reported found up near or on Geronimo Head or Malapais. This inscription on a rock near a small camp no longer exists, so I am searching for someone who has seen it in the past to find out just where it was and what the symbols looked like. Deering/Chunning mention that the immediate surroundings of the tunnel were the worst he'd seen and looked spooky because of many statue-like rocks but little else is described. I'm grasping at straws to find a possible match to the location and need to rule out or in the J.W. 1869 rock carvings as useful clues or useless info. I think it's odd that there were supposedly symbols as well as the initials and date, but maybe the symbols were there before the date and initials were carved.

 

[Hal Croves]

Greetings, I am new to the forum but have been researching the LDM since 2001 and want to thank everyone on this site for their endless contributions of information. The Deering story relates a simple route from Ft McDowell to a spring, then up an unusually large trail to an old mine tunnel high up near or in a small narrow canyon also near or on a big mountain. There are lots of other pieces of this and other stories but what I am looking for is more info on something I read about the initials J.W. and the date 1869 that has been reported found up near or on Geronimo Head or Malapais. This inscription on a rock near a small camp no longer exists, so I am searching for someone who has seen it in the past to find out just where it was and what the symbols looked like. Deering/Chunning mention that the immediate surroundings of the tunnel were the worst he'd seen and looked spooky because of many statue-like rocks but little else is described. I'm grasping at straws to find a possible match to the location and need to rule out or in the J.W. 1869 rock carvings as useful clues or useless info. I think it's odd that there were supposedly symbols as well as the initials and date, but maybe the symbols were there before the date and initials were carved.

I cant help you with the J.W/1869 inscription but the Deering/Chunning "surroundings" description you mentioned sounds like Malapais. Its not a mountain to play around on this time of year or even alone. I can also see how someone would let their imagination run wild there. A little spooky at night.

Welcome to the forum.

View attachment 1204910
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[Oroblanco]

Greetings, I am new to the forum but have been researching the LDM since 2001 and want to thank everyone on this site for their endless contributions of information. The Deering story relates a simple route from Ft McDowell to a spring, then up an unusually large trail to an old mine tunnel high up near or in a small narrow canyon also near or on a big mountain. There are lots of other pieces of this and other stories but what I am looking for is more info on something I read about the initials J.W. and the date 1869 that has been reported found up near or on Geronimo Head or Malapais. This inscription on a rock near a small camp no longer exists, so I am searching for someone who has seen it in the past to find out just where it was and what the symbols looked like. Deering/Chunning mention that the immediate surroundings of the tunnel were the worst he'd seen and looked spooky because of many statue-like rocks but little else is described. I'm grasping at straws to find a possible match to the location and need to rule out or in the J.W. 1869 rock carvings as useful clues or useless info. I think it's odd that there were supposedly symbols as well as the initials and date, but maybe the symbols were there before the date and initials were carved.

Welcome to Treasurenet Axer!

Not to discourage you in any way, but I would point out that those initials and camp may well be for John Walker, whom was active as a commander of troops fighting the Apaches in that very time period.

Please do continue, did not mean to derail the topic.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Greetings, I am new to the forum but have been researching the LDM since 2001 and want to thank everyone on this site for their endless contributions of information. The Deering story relates a simple route from Ft McDowell to a spring, then up an unusually large trail to an old mine tunnel high up near or in a small narrow canyon also near or on a big mountain. There are lots of other pieces of this and other stories but what I am looking for is more info on something I read about the initials J.W. and the date 1869 that has been reported found up near or on Geronimo Head or Malapais. This inscription on a rock near a small camp no longer exists, so I am searching for someone who has seen it in the past to find out just where it was and what the symbols looked like. Deering/Chunning mention that the immediate surroundings of the tunnel were the worst he'd seen and looked spooky because of many statue-like rocks but little else is described. I'm grasping at straws to find a possible match to the location and need to rule out or in the J.W. 1869 rock carvings as useful clues or useless info. I think it's odd that there were supposedly symbols as well as the initials and date, but maybe the symbols were there before the date and initials were carved.

axer,

I have been to the JW1869 rock inscription on a couple occasions when it was still there. That is all that was scratched into the boulder, JW 1869, nothing else. It was crudely done but legible and looked old, I would say it was authentic but hard to determine the time period of a lot of rock markings in the Superstitions. The location is on the west side of Malapai Mountain close to where the mountain drops off into LaBarge Canyon. It is up high and almost impossible to direct someone to as there are no good landmarks nearby to use as a reference. There is a place nearby that serves as a decent camp. The area is remote and incredibly rough, no trail leading to it, the trail out across the top of Malapai and Geronimo Head is quite a ways above the JW1869 site. Jack Carlson and Greg Davis tried to find this site a while back, they got into the right canyon but couldn't find the boulder. The boulder has probably been pushed over or tumbled down into the canyon bottom. Al Reser took a good photo of the inscription many years ago, I don't know who has that photo today, possibly Greg Davis may have a copy. I never found a mine site nearby but there is evidence of a lot of prospecting went on in the area. A mine could easily be hidden in that area, the terrain is cut with canyons and washes and heavily bouldered not to mention the brush that has overgrown everything. You could be standing next to an open shaft and never see it for the brush. You cannot get to this area and back in a daytrip. Two days minimum and 3-4 is required to even do a fast recon of the area.

Matthew

 

[markmar]

Have anybody think how Deering could traveled on that monumented trail to the north and not to the south like all are convinced ?

The description of the trail at http://www.ajpl.org/aj/superstition/stories/Deering Story.pdf

This same trail was monumented by small piles of rock until it left Javelina Canyon,where it dropped over into “horse country

I believe , the last monuments of the " Javelina " canyon are the 18 lugares from the stone trail map . And for the " horse " country , we know about the horse rock clue to the LDM from the Julia's map and from the Cox's clues .

 

[axer]

Thanks Oroblanco for the welcome and info, thanks Hal and Matthew for the info, I'm actually relieved that the date and initials were just scratched and not deliberately carved, and that the symbols were not prominent or were just natural marks or whatever. It makes me think whoever created them was not doing it for anyones benefit but their own need to leave proof of their being alive and in that spot, and not as any form of marking their territory or claim.

Markmar, I have always thought Deering might have tracked the two soldiers from the Silver King, especially if he was there when they arrived. They left mounted and barring rain would have left some tracks every so often.

 

[gollum]

Markmar,

I wouldn't believe one thing on any map attributed to Julia Thomas.

Mike

 

[markmar]

Markmar,

I wouldn't believe one thing on any map attributed to Julia Thomas.

Mike

gollum

That's OK . So you can stay on :

Ted Cox clues at Lost Dutchman Mine

Cox believed this to be both the Dutchman and the Soldiers’ mine. Cox also thought that the Doc Thorne treasure was located in this area. ......>>> (5) On making a slight bend, you will see a natural rock formation with the distinct appearance of a Roman-nosed mustang with one ear laid back over a jagged cropped mane

Apache Jack clue at Dutchman's Lost Mine

Apache Jack further said that the Apache left a marker. In a steep-climbing arroyo high upon a mountainside where no white prospector would normally think of looking for gold, was a bright yellow ribbon of it in a narrow vein of rose quartz. It lay under towering cliffs, which overhung the whole arroyo, within plain sight of nearby Weaver’s Needle, and thinking no white man would ever venture there, the Apaches did not conceal this place. Below was the secret marker, an eight-foot high boulder hoisted upon the skyline of a ridge ... This boulder had been chiseled to look like a rampant horse’s head with mouth open, one ear laid back and with the other ear standing straight up. However, it was only so recognized against the sky when viewed from down canyon a short ways to the north.

Mexicans miners clue -unknown source but posted by JackH TN member in #63 at http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...why-you-can-t-get-map-10-a-5.html#post3125144

The Mexicans were mining, while there were "Lookouts" high above the Mine.
As the day advanced late into the afternoon, all of a sudden under the breath
of a Scout, "Aye Carrumba", then yelled "EL COBOLLO" & was heard below.
When the miners came out it was said to them "EL COBOLLO" was seen in
the canyon arroyo. "How do you know this ?", was asked, "It was heard from
above !" "And how did he know this ?" "He saw him and someone was holding
his reins !" "Where did you hear this ?" "It came from Jesus !"

DeGrazia sketch ( reversed ) with Dr. Thorne theme



Also, if you believe how all these clues are questionable or fake , that's OK again .

 

[markmar]

PS

The horse rock from inaccurate sources like GE and Bing maps