Death Traps??

[Blak bart]

Here's an old Apache cache up high in the mountains of Southern Az. Obviously it's been breached, but look at the vertical rock, maybe a sort of death trap? Not a whole lot of rock to cave in but ... If you look real close you may be able to make out the tip of a torch, it's insisde on the left area. I think they would light it and then seal the cache, maybe it depleted the oxygen for preservation?
View attachment 1448341

So far thats about as good as it gets and thats a great example if its the real deal.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[civil_war22]

Or that’s possibly a stick that was brought in

 

[Blak bart]

Or that’s possibly a stick that was brought in

I thought the same.....little small for torch but who knows ?? Still, its pretty good example of a rock fall. I think Of course ive never seen one so I dont know ?? That one just looked convincing to me.

 

[civil_war22]

Pretty sure it would fall if someone kicked that rock over. Course I’ve seen some bluff shelters built that way and I’ve made a few myself. Rock and clay on the outside of a bluff shelter makes one mean little bug out spot

 

[Clay Diggins]

The last two caches I found had death traps. They both worked.














Yeah I died twice.

 

[Barton]

I was asked to talk a little more about the old Spanish Death Traps--so if the reader has specific questions feel free to ask me.

Really the best source of information is in Charles Kenworthy's book: Death Traps to Treasure ; I purchased my copy from Amazon many years ago.
I think Treasure Hunters University also has some photos of Death Traps. Many years ago I used to keep count of them when I saw them--I stopped counting
when I reached 50 --many years ago.

The key think to remember is when your at a Spanish cache site there are not less than 12 traps protecting the main cache ( according to Charles Kenworthy )
--while there are many caches which do not have traps--the cache sites I have seen have all been trapped. Now the basic principles they work on are--human nature--
they usually know the decision you make before you make it! A good rule of thumb is--if you see a centuries old trap--and wonder if it will work--the most likely answer
is--if GRAVITY STILL WORKS--THE TRAP WILL STILL WORK!!

WHILE KENWORTHY illustrates many traps--not every type of trap is in his book--as a bare minimum --the skill level --if your entering or trying to enter a stone door is--
you should be able to draw and explain how each of the traps he illustrates--how it is tripped and the manner of the attack!!

Usually the traps are at the cache site--yet north of Socorro is a Spanish Death Trap--visible from right beside the highway--it is simply placed along the Old Spanish Trail.
The good news about the traps is they indicate your very close to a major cache site! The bad news--is they can wipe you out! I have seen stone bears--which I estimated
weighted 5 tons and I figured they could jump about 8 feet! When you get near / close to the real door--the 4 --8 spots you will ( the average person ) pick to dig--will in fact
be the traps them selves! They will look more like the real door than the actual door to the cache site.

I once observed a person pointing out the Traps on a steep mountain slope--and they immediately pointed out 8 traps in less than 4 minutes. The favorite place to places to place the cache sites----in my limited experience--and different prospectors have different experiences--depending on the experience and the terrain they prospect in--is on steep mountain slopes--for many of the traps rely on gravity to properly operate ( there are many exceptions to this rule ). Usually a traps requires you to dig 5-7 feet deep--before you can activate the trap ( there are many exceptions to this rule ) Then at that depth you will find the bait or the cheese in the mouse trap--something irritable--confirming you really
have the right spot or the entrance. As you throw caution to the wind--and greed takes over--you may not want--what you find the instant you pop the door--and learn you just sprung the Spanish Death Trap!

I have seen Traps that I estimated weighted 200-300 pounds and traps weighing 200,000 pounds. At a Jesuit site I saw they were working with boulders I estimated weighted 40
tons---20 feet by 20 feet by 20 feet---if their using markers that are 40 tons--you do not want to be on the receiving end of the traps in the tunnel to the cache!!

I know this may not work for everyone--but when I sit on a trap / carefully look over a trap or possible door / I get a bad feeling and an upset stomach--when it is dangerous!
Another way--which may work for some people--is simply ask your
Guardian Angel--and carefully listen to what they tell you!!

Barton

 

[Barton]

Let me give you two example of Spanish traps I have encountered:

I was tracking a Spanish trail and as the sun was setting and casting shadows--I saw two well marked cache sites ( OH REALLY ?? )
The first was a black shadow arrow--appx 6 feet tall--pointing right at the ground showing you exactly where to dig!
The second black shadow was of a man with his boot on a chest ( of gold ) showing you exactly where to dig!
NEVER DO THE SPANISH GO OUT OF THEIR WAY--TO SHOW YOU EXACTLY WHERE TO DIG!!
WHEN THEY ARE SHOWING YOU WHERE TO DIG FROM 100 YARDS AWAY--THEY ARE JUST GUIDING YOU INTO ONE OF THEIR TRAPS!

BARTON

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Excuse me for being skeptical, but me thinks that anyone who's into this "death trap" stuff, has watched one-too-many episodes of Raiders of the Lost Ark type Hollywood sensationalism type movies.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Excuse me for being skeptical, but me thinks that anyone who's into this "death trap" stuff, has watched one-too-many episodes of Raiders of the Lost Ark type Hollywood sensationalism type movies.

Hey Tom,
Yer excused for being skeptical, and everyone knows ye are likely a good detectorist,
while being a sort of unbeliever, or perhaps just inexperienced, in the art of Spanish
Treasure Hunting. The fact you've admitted to being a Docent, been allowed to hunt
& recover artifacts, some coins around old Spanish Mission(s), whatever else, could
lead one to suspect a possible, particularly purposed motive, behind looking for the
Spanish Treasure subjects, trying to discount & discourage, the hunters that know
these kinds of signs/markers death traps do very well exist, & are not just nature
made. Reckon you'd deny it, even if ye were shown one, & wouldn't detect it?
...

~:Crosse:~

 

[ancient_ghost2004]

Hey Tom,
Yer excused for being skeptical, and everyone knows ye are likely a good detectorist,
while being a sort of unbeliever, or perhaps just inexperienced, in the art of Spanish
Treasure Hunting. The fact you've admitted to being a Docent, been allowed to hunt
& recover artifacts, some coins around old Spanish Mission(s), whatever else, could
lead one to suspect a possible, particularly purposed motive, behind looking for the
Spanish Treasure subjects, trying to discount & discourage, the hunters that know
these kinds of signs/markers death traps do very well exist, & are not just nature
made. Reckon you'd deny it, even if ye were shown one, & wouldn't detect it?
...

~:Crosse:~

Hey buddy I wouldn’t worry about that guy, clearly he lives in a world where nothing can be true. He is always right and he can’t be told otherwise. Don’t waste your time! Clear your inbox so I can private message you!!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey Tom,
Yer excused for being skeptical, and everyone knows ye are likely a good detectorist,
while being a sort of unbeliever, or perhaps just inexperienced, in the art of Spanish
Treasure Hunting. The fact you've admitted to being a Docent, been allowed to hunt
& recover artifacts, some coins around old Spanish Mission(s), whatever else, could
lead one to suspect a possible, particularly purposed motive, behind looking for the
Spanish Treasure subjects, trying to discount & discourage, the hunters that know
these kinds of signs/markers death traps do very well exist, & are not just nature
made. Reckon you'd deny it, even if ye were shown one, & wouldn't detect it?
...

~:Crosse:~

~Crosse~ , The fact that .. yes ...... I've hunted at many Spanish era (pre 1823) sites in CA does give me some insight into the topic. And I'm of the opinion that: No, the Spanish in the colonial west did *not* have treasures of the types alluded to on threads such as this . Eg.: storerooms, chests full of gold, blah blah. In fact, they were lucky to even get supply ships to this remotest end of the earth for their colonial effort. And rarely ever has escudos been found here (speaking of fumble fingers individual coins). It's just silver reales (I've found well over 100 reales so far, and hunt with a buddy who's got about the same). Any jewelry found is usually copper/brass (rings, medallion, crucifix's, etc..) NOT GOLD.

Not sure about the Spanish down in the mother country of Mexico, but ... up here in the SW of the USA: No, the missions were not bedazzled in "treasure", blah blah.

And ... sorry again for being skeptical: No deathtraps ever encountered by myself or any of the legions of archaeological digs that have gone on t these sites.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

~Crosse~ , The fact that .. yes ...... I've hunted at many Spanish era (pre 1823) sites in CA does give me some insight into the topic. And I'm of the opinion that: No, the Spanish in the colonial west did *not* have treasures of the types alluded to on threads such as this . Eg.: storerooms, chests full of gold, blah blah. In fact, they were lucky to even get supply ships to this remotest end of the earth for their colonial effort. And rarely ever has escudos been found here (speaking of fumble fingers individual coins). It's just silver reales (I've found well over 100 reales so far, and hunt with a buddy who's got about the same). Any jewelry found is usually copper/brass (rings, medallion, crucifix's, etc..) NOT GOLD.

Not sure about the Spanish down in the mother country of Mexico, but ... up here in the SW of the USA: No, the missions were not bedazzled in "treasure", blah blah.

And ... sorry again for being skeptical: No deathtraps ever encountered by myself or any of the legions of archaeological digs that have gone on t these sites.

I never really figured, there would be death traps around the missions, & as far as the remoteness of CA.,
that is why there is the well known, archaeologist accepted "Spanish Trail", which has been found (by the
discovery of artifacts), to run from all points west (S & N), through adjoining states, on into TX., OK. AR.
LA., along the Red R., where much artifacts have been found, going back the Wichita Indians twin forts,
there along both sides the Red, in the S/W area of the later called Indian Territory & The Republic TX.,
continuing along the well beaten & documented trails, on to ports often used, in the Gulf of Mexico.

But travel along the way, in hauling their caravans of precious cargo, they were often attacked by
fierce, warring Native Indian tribes, furious with the "palefaces" constantly tracking through their
hunting grounds, they sometimes had to cache their immense weights of precious metals. Then,
likely trying to save the rest of their lives, they would always mark the way back to their burial.

Not only that, they were also, apparently supposedly robbing all they found left in tombs of
the ancients, so carefully scattering it out with their same treasure marking code, to spread
it out for a later team recovery, (which never happened, with the Inquisition expelling the
Jesuits, & later the American acquisition, of all of the N & S western states territories).

Carefully taking notes with all of their navigational skills, & keeping the maps & info safe,
likely all the way back the Vatican. Many of these caches, are marked in modern methods,
while the old markers are still there. Along with the markers, they could find the way back
to the meticulously placed, carefully coded & mapped secret entrances, they often also did
their complicated, gravity type DEATH TRAPS, for the uninformed to find either impossible
to remove, or try prevent the entrance some their caches, & also to dispatch anyone that
may be seeking these kinds of treasures, without the inside knowledges some have now
acquired, so that they can meticulously discover the entrances, vaults secured long ago.

Congratulations on your good fortunes, & experiences with searching the old missions.
Surely that has been quite rewarding, if not for anything else but the thrill of discovery.

But believe me friend, there is a lot more area that was tracked, much more activities,
than everything with the missions & their trails, the large haciendas & such. I happen
to be very much of a realist too. So if I hadn't seen some of these things, I would so
be likely, to be as much or maybe even more skeptical even than you, with some of
the evidence of the Conquistadors, Jesuits, & Inquistador's presences you've seen.
...

~:Crosse:~

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Hey buddy I wouldn’t worry about that guy, clearly he lives in a world where nothing can be true. He is always right and he can’t be told otherwise. Don’t waste your time! Clear your inbox so I can private message you!!

Hey ghost,

I'm sure he's fully enlightened in several interesting fields,
so perhaps there's a possibility for enlightenments, in this
area also. That is, if he's open minded enough & honest.

Get him outta' his west coast comfort zone, take him out
trecking in some good old Spanish Markers' trails (that
is if he could handle the threat of deadly silent snakes,
panthers, & crazy hillbillies) in the thick woods, show
him a death trap, & go over the markers of the arts
Spanish treasure caching that the sure trained eyes
can distinguish between the easy staged signs he's
apparently used to, on his little Bambi Peter Rabbit
paths he seems to be so adapted to, like retirement.
...

 

[ancient_ghost2004]

~Crosse~ , The fact that .. yes ...... I've hunted at many Spanish era (pre 1823) sites in CA does give me some insight into the topic. And I'm of the opinion that: No, the Spanish in the colonial west did *not* have treasures of the types alluded to on threads such as this . Eg.: storerooms, chests full of gold, blah blah. In fact, they were lucky to even get supply ships to this remotest end of the earth for their colonial effort. And rarely ever has escudos been found here (speaking of fumble fingers individual coins). It's just silver reales (I've found well over 100 reales so far, and hunt with a buddy who's got about the same). Any jewelry found is usually copper/brass (rings, medallion, crucifix's, etc..) NOT GOLD.

Not sure about the Spanish down in the mother country of Mexico, but ... up here in the SW of the USA: No, the missions were not bedazzled in "treasure", blah blah.

And ... sorry again for being skeptical: No deathtraps ever encountered by myself or any of the legions of archaeological digs that have gone on t these sites.

Well Tom you are so misinformed about what you speak I must say

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Cross, I find evidences of the colonial spanish all the time. I've got reales back to the earliest toe-hold of my part of CA (Monterey = 1770). But ... no ... not "treasures". And no "death-traps". And no "markers".

If you really subscribe to all this stuff, you ought to get yourself a bunch of back issues of old treasure hunting md'ing magazines from the 1960s and 1970s. Each issue was PACKED FULL of stories like yours. And ... after awhile, they all sort of started to sound the same:

The dying miner drags himself into the wild-west saloon. The lone survivor of an indian attack. As curious bar patrons gather around him, he spills the story of fabulous riches back at his mine . The patrons rush him to the doctor, but he dies of his wounds before being able to reclaim his fortune. But here's the 5 clues he left on his death-bed:

Squiggles on rocks, deadly vipers, cryptograms, complicated gravity traps, poison darts, ambushes, etc... Where have I seen all this before ? OH YEAH: Raiders of the Lost Ark

 

[ancient_ghost2004]

Cross, I find evidences of the colonial spanish all the time. I've got reales back to the earliest toe-hold of my part of CA (Monterey = 1770). But ... no ... not "treasures". And no "death-traps". And no "markers".

If you really subscribe to all this stuff, you ought to get yourself a bunch of back issues of old treasure hunting md'ing magazines from the 1960s and 1970s. Each issue was PACKED FULL of stories like yours. And ... after awhile, they all sort of started to sound the same:

The dying miner drags himself into the wild-west saloon. The lone survivor of an indian attack. As curious bar patrons gather around him, he spills the story of fabulous riches back at his mine . The patrons rush him to the doctor, but he dies of his wounds before being able to reclaim his fortune. But here's the 5 clues he left on his death-bed:

Squiggles on rocks, deadly vipers, cryptograms, complicated gravity traps, poison darts, ambushes, etc... Where have I seen all this before ? OH YEAH: Raiders of the Lost Ark

Please keep posting so I can continue to laugh at you.

 

[Overseas]

Did find an old rusted animal trap in the woods once.

We used to have antique rusted leg traps for pesky animals that worked...I heard more recently that marijuana growers and meth makers out west were using the same tactics to protect their "treasures," so walking with a stick in front isn't such a bad idea if you are not swinging the MD...just saying.

 

[Overseas]

Seriously though, where I like to go there is underbrush covering cracks and holes in the earth that can go many feet deep and kill a person quick.

I got to go spelunking once and come out out of one of the larger holes and then rappel 150ft down the cliff. Had I started on top of the cliff I would have probably fell in! It really was a great place to store a treasure and keep it there if you knew how to hide the entrance with a small boulder.

Nowadays I like to thrust my stick in a lot of places.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Cross, I find evidences of the colonial spanish all the time. I've got reales back to the earliest toe-hold of my part of CA (Monterey = 1770). But ... no ... not "treasures". And no "death-traps". And no "markers".

If you really subscribe to all this stuff, you ought to get yourself a bunch of back issues of old treasure hunting md'ing magazines from the 1960s and 1970s. Each issue was PACKED FULL of stories like yours. And ... after awhile, they all sort of started to sound the same:

The dying miner drags himself into the wild-west saloon. The lone survivor of an indian attack. As curious bar patrons gather around him, he spills the story of fabulous riches back at his mine . The patrons rush him to the doctor, but he dies of his wounds before being able to reclaim his fortune. But here's the 5 clues he left on his death-bed:

Squiggles on rocks, deadly vipers, cryptograms, complicated gravity traps, poison darts, ambushes, etc... Where have I seen all this before ? OH YEAH: Raiders of the Lost Ark

That's ok Tom, never mind, go back to yer recliner & take a nap,

I know it's hard work climbing up around those now half burnt up

Sierra's, so don't worry, your secrets are safe as yer bunny trails.

Later, hope yer enjoyin' retirement, an' true confessions...
...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Please keep posting so I can continue to laugh at you.

... That's ok Tom, never mind, go back to yer recliner & take a nap,...

I suspect if we pitted and weighted the "end results" of those who subscribe to the legends, death traps and treasure rooms conspiracies, versus the "end results" of mine, that you'd be at the loosing end of those scales.

Ie.: how many treasures (gold and silver coins) have you found with your death-traps/treasure rooms notions and theories ?

But alas, I realize you guys could not be forthcoming with any "finds" for show & tell. Because, alas, you fear the IRS (taxes), claim-jumpers, and thieves that would target your house. Right ? And besides, those "death traps" kept you from getting into the treasure rooms. Or laws that forbid extraction of the treasure from the federal or state land (but rest assured you narrowed it down to a certain canyon or lake bottom or cave or whatever).

This has been my experience with anyone touting ... uh ... "un-conventional" TH'ing means/theories. If/when you ever come down the "proof in the pudding" test, there is never any put forth (or... at least not that simply had "more plausible explanations"). The "un-conventional" will immediately have 6 or 7 pat reasons why there is no treasure/finds for them to show. But ... rest assured .... they're finding big ticket treasures . Hmmmm.