Crispin vs. fire nugget (nitric Acid)

[Crispin]

You make the call: I did some things out of order but will clarify. I wrote controls because I thought they might be Aluminum but some were not. Aluminum and iron dissolve in nitric acid.


metal blob pendant:


metal eagle:


metal nut ring:


metal found in Bahamas, thought to be a cob:


unknown metal blob that kicked everything off:


1/2 reales found together:


.999silver that came with test kit, test right of it, turned dark red:


Ring stamped sterling, test to the right of ring:


Iron completely dissolved:


So there you have it folks. What I got on my hands is not Aluminum, some degree of silver in it. Of note, I tested a ring I thought was gold and it completely dissolved . Passed silver test and failed gold. Keep it mind I found most of these things in the same spot. Fire on a spanish ship is my guess...

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

I believe it was in 1983 that my friend Roy found half of a Silver Disk in the debris of burial mounds on Stock Island that had been dug out and robbed by many folks over many years. The half of the Silver Disk was one part of a larger Silver Disk that was made by Keys Indians by melting Spanish Silver coins and/or Silver bars, pouring it into a bowl made in the sand on a beach with a stick in the middle which made a hole in the middle when done and the Silver cooled/hardened. This Silver Disk would have been worn by a Chief or other very important person in the tribe. It was evident from Roy's find, that the whole Silver Disk was too heavy for a person to wear as adornment as the half Roy found weighed several pounds and was probably the reason the disk was cut in half. I went to the Burial Mound site with Roy to help him in an attempt to find the other half of the Silver Disk. We did not find the other half of the Silver Disk but we found where someone had excavated under the roots of a tree and had removed a Treasure Chest only a day or two prior to us being there. The Treasure Chest must have been loaded to the brim with Silver, Gold and probably many pieces of Jewelry and other valuables as the drag marks were very deep in the shell debris from the burial mounds.

Interesting articles on Florida's Indian Tribes and thanks for the links!


Frank

Here is the story of this medallion CURSED Cursed | Outside Online

 

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[G.I.B.]

What beach did you find these on crispin? Anything found on the Treasure Coast has a chance to be something Spanish. Fort Lauderdale or Miami? slim chance. This is still the best site to keep up with metal detecting the Treasure Coast. The Treasure Beaches Report brought to you from Florida's Treasure Coast.

The Spaniards were on more places than just the Treasure Coast. DeSoto made his first landing on the south side of Tampa Bay in 1539.

The area of St. Petersburg is on any number of charts as a place to anchor and get fresh water.

Clearwater, and Anclote Key, I've got them on some early 1500's charts. Sources of fresh water, timbers, hunting, just watch out for the Indians.

I seriously doubt Crispin will tell us which beach he is finding this stuff on.

I have a previous silver find from Sunset Beach in Pinellas County that is hundreds of years old. (it was posted on TN)

The difference between the east coast of Florida and the west... reefs.

Deep water goes shallow on the east coast and concentrated wrecks right next to the beach.

On the west coast we have waters 50 miles out that are no deeper than 80'. Crap is scattered everywhere, just not concentrated in any one location.

In 1528 Pánfilo de Narváe landed about 4 miles from my house in a neighborhood now know as Jungle Prada. There is an Indian Mound there as well. (It's guarded by some rather influential Peacocks)

I think his finds have been established as silver by the multitude of tests. Crispin's finds were being called lead or aluminum fire nuggets by a number of folks. I think he's achieved his goal of proving it's silver- specific origin and purity yet to be determined. But they are NOT fire nuggets or pinched lead fishing weights...

I'm anxious to read about the mass-spec results, not for yet another confirmation of silver content, but for age identification which may help identify an origin.

 

[G.I.B.]

One last suggestion. Have you tried walking into a pawn shop and asking them?

A pawn shop should be the last place anybody goes for advice. (unless they are close family friends)

"No sir, it's just junk silver, poor content, and I'll give you $10 for it."

Then he quietly puts the junk silver in his safe never to be seen again...

 

[Crispin]

Dug this up today at same area...

 

[Crispin]

The pitting destroyed most of the design. It has been in salt water for a long time. The copper reacts with the salt water to cause the pitting. Remnants of cross are dead on center. Passed all my normal silver tests and didn't melt. Incidentally, ran it through platinum test and it failed miserably.

 

[trikikiwi]

... I'm anxious to read about the mass-spec results, not for yet another confirmation of silver content, but for age identification which may help identify an origin.

I'm curious as to how you think mass-spec will determine age of anything, let alone inorganic materials?

 

[G.I.B.]

I'm curious as to how you think mass-spec will determine age of anything, let alone inorganic materials?

I'm not the scientist here- I'm just parroting (on my last sentence) what the smart fellows were talking about...

Jump the heck on in if you have expertise in why silver is acting this way. I'm finding it to be one heck of a learning experience.

 

[Crispin]

I'm curious as to how you think mass-spec will determine age of anything, let alone inorganic materials?

Mass spec cannot determine age. Obviously there is no carbon dating to be done... Maybe could do an isotope count to get age but that is way over my head.

 

[huntsman53]

Mass spec cannot determine age. Obviously there is no carbon dating to be done... Maybe could do an isotope count to get age but that is way over my head.

I am not even sure that isotopic age dating would even work on such examples! First, a Silver coin containing Copper and a variety of other impurities (I believe) would have to be separated into it's individual elements before testing. Second, since the Silver, Copper and other unknown impurities were heated to their' melting points to create the coin's planchet, then the coin's properties were later melted by fire and now, you have to heat the elements to their' melting point again to separate them, it is without a doubt that the Atoms within all of the elements have been significantly altered at least three times since it was mined. Therefore, I believe that any isotopic age dating would be totally useless and inconclusive!


Frank

 

[Crispin]

I am not even sure that isotopic age dating would even work on such examples! First, a Silver coin containing Copper and a variety of other impurities (I believe) would have to be separated into it's individual elements before testing. Second, since the Silver, Copper and other unknown impurities were heated to their' melting points to create the coin's planchet, then the coin's properties were later melted by fire and now, you have to heat the elements to their' melting point again to separate them, it is without a doubt that the Atoms within all of the elements have been significantly altered at least three times since it was mined. Therefore, I believe that any isotopic age dating would be totally useless and inconclusive!

Frank

That is a very good point. Thanks for the information. I was wondering about that myself. I didn't look up the half-lives on isotopes of silver. It would also matter a great deal where the silver originally came from as I am sure the initial percentage of isotopes varies from place to place. Again, I'm not an expert on this, but to date silver by isotopes I'm guessing it needs to be at least 2000 years old. I never worked in that field. My expertise is organic chemistry and chasing electrons around.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

A pawn shop should be the last place anybody goes for advice. (unless they are close family friends)

"No sir, it's just junk silver, poor content, and I'll give you $10 for it."

Then he quietly puts the junk silver in his safe never to be seen again...

True but I think you have misunderstood. . I am trying to explain to crispin how to determine if his fire nuggets are silver and so far nothing I have said about testing has helped. If a pawn shop offers $10, we are getting some definitive answers.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I seriously doubt Crispin will tell us which beach he is finding this stuff on.

Why not? At this point I dont even know if his finds are in Florida or Maine. Surely you must realize that I am not asking for an exact location.. I could care less. I was trying to help.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Why not? At this point I dont even know if his finds are in Florida or Maine. Surely you must realize that I am not asking for an exact location.. I could care less. I was trying to help.

Finds are in Florida, he hunts different beaches all over Florida...

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Finds are in Florida, he hunts different beaches all over Florida...

OK thanks

 

[sutphin]

WE GOT HISTORIANS , TEACHERS , ARCHEOLOGIST , TOPO, AND NOW A CHEMIST . I SAY THATS SOME PRETTY NEAT FINDS.