Crazy Piece / Crazy Hunt

[DoctorJones]

New permission yields massive haul in just one hour! Scrapers, drills, blades, weird tools and this thingymajig! Flint area of field measures roughly 100yrds wide by 300yrds long. So thick with flint it crunches with every step...Been hunting and collecting artifacts for roughly 30 years, never seen anything like this. Can't post every find but will post wierd and significant items I think may be of interest to the group.

 

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[Fred250]

I didn’t mean to overtake your thread doc, always seems to happen. Good luck.

 

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[Fred250]

I still don't think you get it Fred. It seems that you are "OK" with things as you are incorrectly seeing them in your own little world. I've already clicked on them all.

Can’t cure the blindness.

 

[MAMucker]

?

 

[MAMucker]

Grim,
Would you mind posting one of your fine flake tools with the micro edge work, up close?
I’m hoping an obvious tool will help the conversation and demonstrate the details that we do not see in this original post.

 

[smokeythecat]

I see some definite tools in the original post. Before you get to any more fighting let me get some popcorn...

 

[unclemac]

Not true. I love Flake Tools, Scrapers, Uniface pieces etc and have lots of it. You may have of those in your group there but it's really hard to tell without better pictures.

I said I wasn't going to do this but here goes anyway. Do any of your pieces show flaking like on these pieces? These are all Uniface Flake Tools and every piece is worked. These have some of the finest micro flaking I have ever seen. Any of yours show flaking like this?

Grim, you need to start a new thread. I want to see some up close micro flaking...some different styles of flaking...AND above all else...some NOT flaking that looks like it is.

 

[Fred250]

I’ve got a wife, two kids, a job, and spend too much time on this crap already. When I have the time to devote wait to see what I come up with. Something tells me the debate will be over by then though.Teach em a lesson Doc.

 

[DoctorJones]

Fred, sorry about how these bullies have treated you... Don't worry about me, I've got thick thin, big shoulders and the knowledge that what I have collected are legitimate artifacts. Take care and good luck out there!

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I see some definite tools in the original post. Before you get to any more fighting let me get some popcorn...

I see a few that are most likely Tools but without better pictures who can say for sure.

 

[MAMucker]

I see some definite tools in the original post. Before you get to any more fighting let me get some popcorn...

Not picking a fight at all.

I don’t think we disagree here. Every piece of debitage is an artifact, but not every piece of debitage is a tool.

In the pictures there are a number of artifacts. A few could be tools of some kind, some may be tested and discarded chunks of flint, and some may just be debitage and manufacturing refuse.

So I had requested close up photos to get a better look. Then Fred spiced it up between posts. If collecting bucket loads of debitage is fulfilling then power to you. No judgment here.

Waiting for the close ups though.

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

 

[gordonquixote]

Zzzzzzzzzz

 

[DoctorJones]

No worries and completely understand, just haven't had time to make a new post yet of close-ups... Trust me, it's coming! Appreciate your comment sir!

 

[DoctorJones]

I’m all about preserving the history as well but don’t you think it’s unusual your not finding any points / finished pieces , I have a few sites where there is pieces of debitage and flakes everywhere you look but also a lot of knives , points and hammer stones

Ive only been to this new permission 3 times for a total of 5 hours, it's a massive field... I've found one arrowhead, a broke spear tip and a couple of knives thus far. All the "rocks" I posted are complete scrapers, drills or some sort of tool having very distinctive knapping and shaping for the intended use... I'll be posting a follow up post hopefully tomorrow sometime with close-up pics of some of the finds from the original post. That should clear up this thread and then everyone can go about doing what we all enjoy doing, collecting artifacts!
Thanks for your comment!

 

[newnan man]

Fred, sorry about how these bullies have treated you... Don't worry about me, I've got thick thin, big shoulders and the knowledge that what I have collected are legitimate artifacts. Take care and good luck out there!

No bullies here on this site. We post our opinions, most based on years of experience. Personally I stand by my assessment that they are rocks. No malice just my personal view. Please keep posting your finds.

 

[Hunter1499]

Hey “doctor”-I’ve been in your position before. When I started hunting , I showed everyone I could my finds with the intent that people would tell me they are real. If they said they were debitage (like these are) i went to others to get a different opinion. I would do they all day until I like what I heard. I got my PhD in anthropology with a minor in archaeology and ran field schools across the country since 1981. I’ve seen these types of rocks a million times and one thing you will learn, is what looks like a tool is most often natural fracturing with post deposit wear. Also pictures only show so much. You need quality pictures and even then a picture only goes so far
In my opinion with almost 40 years experience, these are not tools but if you ask enough people you will get an opinion you like. It’s like convincing people that the sky is green-eventually someone will agree with you. These are not true artifacts

Anyways friendly advice from someone who has been there before......

 

[SnakemanBill]

Not so fast "Doc". You and Fred have a wealth of knowledge here at your fingertips but it seems you guys are just too arrogant and stubborn to accept it. Many of these collectors here have 50+ years of collecting experience and have examined more actual artifacts than you two may ever hold in your hands. I've known more than a few of these guys here for 13+ years from the many archaeology web sites that we all belonged to and that have bellied-up over time. I've also met some of these guys in person. We've seen many folks like you two come and go from these sites. We've also seen a few that have seen the light of day and realized what we are telling them is the truth. Doc, I'm surprised that you have been here for sooooo long and put something out here like this. Evidently, you have not been paying attention and boning-up with what is offered here. You two guys are in denial if you don't want to accept the truth about y'all's rocks. Anyone that tells you any different than us are just blowing smoke; i.e. liars or ill-informed! I'm not one of the coddlers here and I'll always tell you what I think if you ask--no, if you post!

Couldn't agree with you more Tdog!

 

[GopherDaGold]

No worries and completely understand, just haven't had time to make a new post yet of close-ups... Trust me, it's coming! Appreciate your comment sir!

Yet you seem to have plenty of time to mention, (numerous times) that you will be back to post the real artifacts.

 

[Charl]

Unless you post pics of readily accepted artifacts in nice frames first I don’t think anyone here will take you seriously.

If someone posted a frame of flaked artifacts, and then posted rocks, I would still judge the former to be flaked artifacts, and the latter to be rocks. And, in both cases, it would simply be my considered opinion based on 60 years handling both artifacts and rocks. In other words, preconceived notions would have nothing to do with any opinion I could render. In any, and all, cases, my opinion would be 100% genuine. What more could I do in that respect? Here, you are, IMHO, rendering an unfair judgement of the experienced posters on this forum. You have posted many items, which, the experienced judgement of many on this forum, have judged to be rocks. Not to irritate you, not to deny your right to an opinion, but to tell you the truth as they perceive it. They have offered honest and experienced opinions. That's quite different then the almost conspiratorial take you seem to be offering. People don't agree that your rocks are artifacts, therefore there is some "fault" that lies with their inability to recognize what you claim to recognize.

You live in Ma. You can, as I've suggested many times, bring some of your best finds to the Robbins Museum. You can view their collection of virtually every type of both formal and casual class of Natve American artifacts. You can, in other words, make some effort to learn and gain some degree of experience on your own.

Instead, with posts like this, you have the OP of this thread commiserating with you over being "bullied" by this forum, and you are not bullied by this forum, and you just promote a victim mentality. But, you are not a victim at all. You have been given opinions offered in honesty, not in an effort to put you down.

You have every right to your opinion. But when people differ with that opinion, it does not make you a victim.

 

[Kray Gelder]

Well put, Charl.