confederate blanket buckle,/ also solid bronze buckle.?

[eboy1960]

hello tnet members went to my best hunting place found this blanket buckle and another buckle of some kind says solid bronze anyone know what kind it is,and the hinge thing says atlas ,,also the second blanket buckle i found on the site//thanks for looking..

 

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[eboy1960]

im sure you have some great treasures,,in those boxes

 

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[bcs123]

i found one of those heart ones in my field at an early 1900's house site. there a great find and look cool. the facts are they were used by not only cw troops but civilian's as well due to the long production runs of the design, the location of the find as well as other finds in the area would give good evidence as to weather it is cw or civilian use.

no matter what area it is found in there still cool and i love looking at them.

Great finds congrats to the OP.

 

[kuger]

I sure would like to see a CW period Patent on them

 

[creskol]

i found one of those heart ones in my field at an early 1900's house site. there a great find and look cool. the facts are they were used by not only cw troops but civilian's as well due to the long production runs of the design, the location of the find as well as other finds in the area would give good evidence as to weather it is cw or civilian use.

no matter what area it is found in there still cool and i love looking at them.

Great finds congrats to the OP.

When you say that, "the facts are they were used by not only cw troops but civilian's as well due to the long production runs of the design" do you have any documentation to base those facts on other than the fact that they have been found in areas known to have Civil War activity? .. I am looking for some sort of written documentation that substantiates this, but so far, I haven't found any. Thanks for your help.

 

[Tnmountains]

Ken knoop gave his opinion here on martingale hearts and rosettes..*There were no “official” Confederate rosettes although imported British patterns and again private purchase variations have been seen. Period civilian rosettes are another story entirely
Bridle rosettes [Archive] - Authentic Campaigner Website & Forums
From what I have read the heart design was a Dragoon pattern from the 1840-1850. It seems there is no doubt it was used both by civilians and soldiers. So unless found in context no way to tell.
Nice period relic.

 

[kuger]

I sure would like to see a CW period Patent on them

...again,if they were Dragoon...I want to see some patents/proof....I know in my search,I couldnt find anything...

 

[got2dig]

Ken knoop gave his opinion here on martingale hearts and rosettes..*There were no “official” Confederate rosettes although imported British patterns and again private purchase variations have been seen. Period civilian rosettes are another story entirely
Bridle rosettes [Archive] - Authentic Campaigner Website & Forums
From what I have read the heart design was a Dragoon pattern from the 1840-1850. It seems there is no doubt it was used both by civilians and soldiers. So unless found in context no way to tell.
Nice period relic.

Yep, you just have to know where you got it from. The one that I have was British made but lot's of the stuff that we find has come from over there.

 

[creskol]

Yep, you just have to know where you got it from. The one that I have was British made but lot's of the stuff that we find has come over there.

Hey Got2 .. Is yours marked in someway that you know it's British? If so, can we see a photo of that marking .. That might help in the research. Thanks.

 

[got2dig]

Hey Got2 .. Is yours marked in someway that you know it's British? If so, can we see a photo of that marking .. That might help in the research. Thanks.

I'll have to look it over to see it's in very good shape, so it would show up well if so.

 

[kuger]

I'll have to look it over to see it's in very good shape, so it would show up well if so.

May I ask how you know it was British made if it has no markings?

 

[got2dig]

Nop, can't find any marks on it to make it British made. Back when I dug it up I was looking for it in some book's and that was where I got that it was made by the British.
Now you got me thinking, and that's not good for me.
So off we go I'll have to look in to this and will post up if I find the book that it was in.

 

[CRUSADER]

Ken knoop gave his opinion here on martingale hearts and rosettes..*There were no “official” Confederate rosettes although imported British patterns and again private purchase variations have been seen. Period civilian rosettes are another story entirely
Bridle rosettes [Archive] - Authentic Campaigner Website & Forums
From what I have read the heart design was a Dragoon pattern from the 1840-1850. It seems there is no doubt it was used both by civilians and soldiers. So unless found in context no way to tell.
Nice period relic.

The heart design on horse bridles etc started many hundreds of years before the 1840s in the UK on both Civilian & maybe some 'military related' horse gear.

 

[VOL1266-X]

I have followed this post with interest as I know the heart design has been around (As Cru said) for a long time. Dman actually bought some heart design buckle covers from Ebay that are very modern and still made today. Charlie Harris (Editorial Consultant for American Digger Magazine and noted author) recently published an article on the heart designs in AD. You may recall the Heart Rosette that I dug last Fall from a battle area where Gen. John Hunt Morgan troops attacked a U.S. camp. The rosette I dug was less than 100 ft. from where I dug a CS militia rectangular plain brass belt buckle about 10 years prior. A fence row had been cleared and Dman and I hunted it. After a lot of research and talking to relic dealers and authors, I discovered that the heart rosettes were civilian produced and readily available during the war. I contacted noted CW artist John Paul Strain who painted "Thunderbolt" featuring Gen. John Hunt Morgan and his officers on the way to attack the U.S. garrison where I dug the rosette. Morgan's horse "Black Bess" had the heart rosette on the head stall of the bridle as did Col. Basil Duke's horse. My question to Mr. Strain was this: How did you get the concept of putting the heart rosette on Morgan's horse and on the horses of his officers? His reply was that those rosettes were available and likely used by Confederate officers during the CW. Some had lead backs and some were tin. The tin ones were generally considered post CW but now evidence supports CW period use as well. I am not a relic expert but I consider Creskol and kuger as experts on horse tack and Crusader as an expert on European history as he has proven many times. HH, Quindy.

 

[creskol]

Good write-up Quindy. I don't think there is any dispute with the heart design itself, but rather in design of the buckle cover. The rosette has been around for hundreds of years with it's basic design and function remaining constant throughout. These buckle covers/shields, on the other hand, have not been around that long, and as I pointed out earlier, in all my research, the first buckle cover/shield with the same construction as the one in question doesn't appear until the Ralph Wooding patent in 1892. I do suppose that it's possible that they were made prior without a patent, but I haven't found anything to indicate that.

 

[CRUSADER]

I have followed this post with interest as I know the heart design has been around (As Cru said) for a long time. Dman actually bought some heart design buckle covers from Ebay that are very modern and still made today. Charlie Harris (Editorial Consultant for American Digger Magazine and noted author) recently published an article on the heart designs in AD. You may recall the Heart Rosette that I dug last Fall from a battle area where Gen. John Hunt Morgan troops attacked a U.S. camp. The rosette I dug was less than 100 ft. from where I dug a CS militia rectangular plain brass belt buckle about 10 years prior. A fence row had been cleared and Dman and I hunted it. After a lot of research and talking to relic dealers and authors, I discovered that the heart rosettes were civilian produced and readily available during the war. I contacted noted CW artist John Paul Strain who painted "Thunderbolt" featuring Gen. John Hunt Morgan and his officers on the way to attack the U.S. garrison where I dug the rosette. Morgan's horse "Black Bess" had the heart rosette on the head stall of the bridle as did Col. Basil Duke's horse. My question to Mr. Strain was this: How did you get the concept of putting the heart rosette on Morgan's horse and on the horses of his officers? His reply was that those rosettes were available and likely used by Confederate officers during the CW. Some had lead backs and some were tin. The tin ones were generally considered post CW but now evidence supports CW period use as well. I am not a relic expert but I consider Creskol and kuger as experts on horse tack and Crusader as an expert on European history as he has proven many times. HH, Quindy.

Thanks.

Although as Creskol just stated we are going of course a little, you are touching on an important point about the boundries between Military issue & Civilian or sudo-military brought or commission gear/decor. Which has varied from person to person normally at the Officer levels. These people through the ages often wanted to stand out & bling themselves/horses with all sorts of non-standard decor. Therefore, just because 1 General did it, means very little on its own as he might be the only one (assuming it can be proved). Therefore, does it make a Civilian decor used during CW a CW Military item? No, but it could be part of that periods Military history. However, how would you ever prove it was used by a military person? Much harder without concrete proof.

 

[VOL1266-X]

Thanks.

Although as Creskol just stated we are going of course a little, you are touching on an important point about the boundries between Military issue & Civilian or sudo-military brought or commission gear/decor. Which has varied from person to person normally at the Officer levels. These people through the ages often wanted to stand out & bling themselves/horses with all sorts of non-standard decor. Therefore, just because 1 General did it, means very little on its own as he might be the only one (assuming it can be proved). Therefore, does it make a Civilian decor used during CW a CW Military item? No, but it could be part of that periods Military history. However, how would you ever prove it was used by a military person? Much harder without concrete proof.

Very true Cru. The rosette I dug has only a 50-50 chance or less of actually being military. There is no way that CS usage could be conclusively proven. It could be from a Conferate Soldier horse's bridle or just an 1880s farmer MULE'S bridle. I asked three well known CW relic dealers who are also diggers about the provenance of the heart rosette with a tin back. All 3 had dug one example each and all 3 rosettes were recovered from a CS cavalry camp. Who knows-I never will for sure. HH, Quindy.

 

[got2dig]

Most of the Conferate soldiers made good use of what they had from home. There was lots of stuff that was Civilian that was used by them. Hell most of the guys used there on guns. But that's just what I have been told or got from book's, how would one know for sure. VOL1266-X you hit it right we will never know. but we will keep working to.

 

[eboy1960]

Most of the Conferate soldiers made good use of what they had from home. There was lots of stuff that was Civilian that was used by them. Hell most of the guys used there on guns. But that's just what I have been told or got from book's, how would one know for sure. VOL1266-X you hit it right we will never know. but we will keep working to.

This was the second one of these buckles I found at this site..

 

[VOL1266-X]

So true about CS Soldiers using what they could. I just emailed an article that North South Trader's Civil War Magazine was interested in to the editor last weekend. Ironically it is titled: "Western Theater Confederates had to Make Do". HH, Quindy.

 

[got2dig]

So true about CS Soldiers using what they could. I just emailed an article that North South Trader's Civil War Magazine was interested in to the editor last weekend. Ironically it is titled: "Western Theater Confederates had to Make Do". HH, Quindy.

WOW! That is very ironic. I would like to get that how can I, you can pm me if you would thank's