claim broker shysters

[fowledup]

Every so often I check Craigslist and Ebay to make sure I don't see familiar pictures of claims for sale that I know for certain aren't. My lord if you want to see whose honest and whose not, now is a good time. Take a look and check out the lead in's to their sales pitches - "Dredgings legal", "the bans over", "dredging opens this June", "start mining immediately everything transferable" and my personal favorite "never been mined". People got no scrupples, fricken crooks!

 

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[Goldwasher]

I'd be willing to bet you could find something in the old District Charters that could be used to make a case, but the legality of "flipping" is really irrelevant as their are 2 or 3 legal ways they could still do it. There is a bigger problem and a missing part of the equation that should be addressed first. That being we as miners are not fulfilling our obligations as set forth in the Mining laws. Which is our responsibility to govern ourselves. We not the government are supposed to solve these types of issues. We don't have localized legally binding Mining District charters anymore with folks that monitor and enforce them. Instead we incorrectly think that the BLM or some other agency should address it- WRONG! We tend to rely on the courts to decide and rule on what we should be deciding for ourselves. Personally I think flipping sucks, if your not gonna work it you shouldn't be able to claim it-period. Now if someone wants to hire you to stake a claim for them, power to ya

US discussing the issue is a way of governing it. That is why prospectors should know the laws. Keep in mind that working the claim shouldn't be forced. Depending on the commodity and market some years it's feasible some years it's not.

 

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[wildminer]

I agree. The chromite mining and processing is not working in my area of SW Oregon due to market conditions. They however have claims on county land, not federal.

 

[Goldwasher]

I belive that would just be considered a lease with the county. Subject to different rules and regs and not with the same protection as claims on federal land. I wonder what the "terms" actually are compared to the way mining claims are.

 

[wildminer]

That's true. .....they have leases near where I live and have forgotten what the terms were that were made public.

 

[Bonaro]

http://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/b...N_/energy.Par.28664.File.dat/MiningClaims.pdf

 

[chlsbrns]

Im so glad that we mine on private property and don't have to deal with claims.

I read and research for knowledge and facts. I prefer to know the law instead of putting on an act or believing in my own mind that I know the law.

Now that I know the law I'm wondering how many of you have valid legal placer claims? How many have discovered a pay streak capable of turning a profit? If not then your claim is not legal and would surely be invalidated in court. Prosecutors could have a field day with that one!

Why even bother claiming a pay streak that could be worked clean in a very short period of time? Clean it out and discover another and clean it out. Why go thru the trouble of filing claims unless you find a large profitable paystreak that would take months to mine?

Hummmm... We sure did very well in AZ using USGS files and detectors when we were there recently.. Them USGS files put us right on the gold! Maybe we should spend a few months out west each winter?

 

[Asmbandits]

Im so glad that we mine on private property and don't have to deal with claims.

I read and research for knowledge and facts. I prefer to know the law instead of putting on an act or believing in my own mind that I know the law.

Now that I know the law I'm wondering how many of you have valid legal placer claims? How many have discovered a pay streak capable of turning a profit? If not then your claim is not legal and would surely be invalidated in court. Prosecutors could have a field day with that one!

Why even bother claiming a pay streak that could be worked clean in a very short period of time? Clean it out and discover another and clean it out. Why go thru the trouble of filing claims unless you find a large profitable paystreak that would take months to mine?

Hummmm... Maybe we should spend a few months out west each winter?

Not everyone is as lucky as you are in every aspect of gold mining it seems, that probably has a lot to do with it. If I were in your shoes and on private land, pulling the gold that you do, I sure wouldn't be wasting my time arguing with us pee ons about things that pose no relevance to your situation as passionately as you do. Heck id be out there pulling in as much as I could, and my time on Tnet would be focused with much sharing of those experiences, but thats just me I guess, to each their own.

 

[chlsbrns]

Not everyone is as lucky as you are in every aspect of gold mining it seems, that probably has a lot to do with it. If I were in your shoes and on private land, pulling the gold that you do, I sure wouldn't be wasting my time arguing with us pee ons about things that pose no relevance to your situation as passionately as you do. Heck id be out there pulling in as much as I could, and my time on Tnet would be focused with much sharing of those experiences, but thats just me I guess, to each their own.

Luck has nothing to do with our success! Research and knowledge have everything to do with our success!

We do not research via painfully slow, cumbersome sites that do not have up to date info. We do not blindly believe statements posted in forums by people who reguarly post inacurate info.

Tnet rules do not allow inaccurate info to be posted so when someone posts "It's long established law that making a claim for the sole purpose of reselling it creates a void claim with no rights" and others post that they will post the law proving that statement is fact but never do and I show that their statements are inaccurate many people learn something. Correct?

Unfortunately we can't mine here in the winter so I have time to be here to argue and research and have found that we can go west in the winter and clean out pay streaks without going thru the hassle of filing claims. Relevant?

 

[Asmbandits]

Luck has nothing to do with our success! Research and knowledge have everything to do with our success!

We do not research via painfully slow, cumbersome sites that do not have up to date info. We do not blindly believe statements posted in forums by people who reguarly post inacurate info.

Tnet rules do not allow inaccurate info to be posted so when someone posts "It's long established law that making a claim for the sole purpose of reselling it creates a void claim with no rights" and others post that they will post the law proving that statement is fact but never do and I show that their statements are inaccurate many people learn something. Correct?

Unfortunately we can't mine here in the winter so I have time to be here to argue and research and have found that we can go west in the winter and clean out pay streaks without going thru the hassle of filing claims. Relevant?

Like I said to each their own. Anyone can say anything to sound as relevant as they want especially on a public forum in this day and age and with the aid of the internet. Among many other things, Its how and what they say, lack or proof of contradiction of interests, and the details they share or chose not to share in discussion that back and legitimize or discredit validity to the ones listening. Some pick up on these things and some do not, but that in itself if one of the most relevant factors to consider, especially with the crowd you have here. Take it for what its worth but im guessing its not worth much to you based on the demeanor of your posts towards everyone here.

 

[Bonaro]

One of numerous cases...

4 Appellant argues that BLM approved the documentation he submitted to prove the
discovery of a Previous valuable mineral deposit on the claims by returning date-stamped
originals of the same. The return of date-stamped originals does not signify approval.
“BLM’s acknowledgement and acceptance of filings submitted in accordance with the
requirements of 43 U.S.C. § 1744 [2012] do not by themselves ‘render valid any claim
which would not be otherwise valid under applicable law and [do] not give the owner
any rights he is not otherwise entitled to by law.’” United States v. Webb, 132 IBLA
at 168 (quoting 43 C.F.R. § 3833.5(a)).

the controlling question is whether there was a discovery of a valuable mineral deposit
on the claims prior to transfer to Appellant.

The “prudent man rule” is
complemented by the “marketability test.” Simply stated, in order to
establish the existence of a valuable mineral deposit it must be shown
that the mineral can be extracted, removed, and marketed at a profit.
United States v. Coleman, 390 U.S. 599 (1968).

In other words before transfer/sale of a claim there must be discovery of a valuable mineral deposit that a prudent man would think capable of turning a profit. There is no requirement that a claim be worked before selling only that the discovery of a valuable mineral deposit was found on the claim that has sufficent valuable minerals to be profitable.

In other words if you file a claim on ground where you did not discover a valuable mineral deposit capable of turning a profit you filed an illegal claim. A claim that can not be legally sold.

I would wager that this interpretation of the "prudent man' rule would invalidate 80% of all mining claims in existence...unless of course you considered the value of the sale of that claim in your profit determination.

 

[chlsbrns]

I would wager that this interpretation of the "prudent man' rule would invalidate 80% of all mining claims in existence...unless of course you considered the value of the sale of that claim in your profit determination.

I agree! Read the assessment requirements. They will invalidate even more claims. Thats why it would be better to not claim. To find and clean out pay streaks without claiming.

 

[chlsbrns]

When someone files a claim (or sells a claim) a discovery monument must be placed showing the place where the discovery of a valuable deposit is located.

In other words when someone sells a claim the valuable deposit must be monumented.

In other words on a placer claim there must be a discovery monument showing where the profitable pay streak is located. The monument is required for the claim to be valid.

 

[Au-N-Rod]

When someone files a claim (or sells a claim) a discovery monument must be placed showing the place where the discovery of a valuable deposit is located.

In other words when someone sells a claim the valuable deposit must be monumented.

In other words on a placer claim there must be a discovery monument showing where the profitable pay streak is located. The monument is required for the claim to be valid.

This is where I was saying different states may be different. I will only be in New Mexico for the time being. This is taken from the New Mexico State Bureau of Mines and Mineral Resources book of Laws and Regulations Governing Mineral Rights in New Mexico.

Size of Claim
A placer
claim shall not include more than 20 acres for each
individual claimant, but there is no limit to the number of
claims that an individual or association of individuals may
locate.
A group of individual
s may locate an "association" placer
claim with a maximum of 160 acres. Thus two individuals may
locate an association placer claim of 40 acres, three individuals
60
acres, etc., up to a maximum of 160 acres by eight indi
viduals
in a single claim. However
, all locators must be bona fide. If
"dummy" locators are used, the validity of the claim may be
questioned.
Location
A placer claim
on public domain of the
United States within
the State of
New Mexico shall be loc
ated as follows:
1.
Make a discovery of placer material. Discovery of mineral
in
place in a vein or lode will not validate a placer location.
Only one discovery of mineral is required to support a placer
location, whet
her it be of 20 acres by an individual, or of 160
acres or less by an association of persons. However, in the event
of
a contest or in patent proceedings, such a discovery may not
conclusively establish the mineral character of all the land
within the clai
m. The locator may find it necessary to show a
discovery on each 10
-
acre subdivision.
2.
Post a location notice at a designated corner of the placer
mining claim, signed by the locator which contains the follow
-
ing. (A sample form for a placer location may be found on page
59.):
a.
The name of the claim.
b.
The purpose and kind of material for which the claim is
located.
c.
The names of the locators.
d.
The number of acres claimed.
e.
A description of the cl
aim by legal subdivision if located on
surveyed lands or a description by metes and bounds, with
reference to some known object or monument if located on
unsurveyed lands.



As the bold part says, in New Mexico you put the location notice on the corner of clain, not the mineral location. So, your one size fits all does not apply.

 

[chlsbrns]

This is where I was saying different states may be different. I will only be in New Mexico for the time being. This is taken from the New Mexico State Bureau of Mines and Mineral Resources book of Laws and Regulations Governing Mineral Rights in New Mexico.

Size of Claim
A placer
claim shall not include more than 20 acres for each
individual claimant, but there is no limit to the number of
claims that an individual or association of individuals may
locate.
A group of individual
s may locate an "association" placer
claim with a maximum of 160 acres. Thus two individuals may
locate an association placer claim of 40 acres, three individuals
60
acres, etc., up to a maximum of 160 acres by eight indi
viduals
in a single claim. However
, all locators must be bona fide. If
"dummy" locators are used, the validity of the claim may be
questioned.
Location
A placer claim
on public domain of the
United States within
the State of
New Mexico shall be loc
ated as follows:
1.
Make a discovery of placer material. Discovery of mineral
in
place in a vein or lode will not validate a placer location.
Only one discovery of mineral is required to support a placer
location, whet
her it be of 20 acres by an individual, or of 160
acres or less by an association of persons. However, in the event
of
a contest or in patent proceedings, such a discovery may not
conclusively establish the mineral character of all the land
within the clai
m. The locator may find it necessary to show a
discovery on each 10
-
acre subdivision.
2.
Post a location notice at a designated corner of the placer
mining claim, signed by the locator which contains the follow
-
ing. (A sample form for a placer location may be found on page
59.):
a.
The name of the claim.
b.
The purpose and kind of material for which the claim is
located.
c.
The names of the locators.
d.
The number of acres claimed.
e.
A description of the cl
aim by legal subdivision if located on
surveyed lands or a description by metes and bounds, with
reference to some known object or monument if located on
unsurveyed lands.



As the bold part says, in New Mexico you put the location notice on the corner of clain, not the mineral location. So, your one size fits all does not apply.

From your post:

"The locator may find it necessary to show a
discovery on each 10 acre subdivision"

From the BLM:

Several States also require side line or end-line posts or monuments for claims. Mining claims and sites described by legal subdivision in some States do not require the erection of corner monuments (See Figure 2). However, all mining claims and sites must have a location or discovery monument. Be sure to check what the law requires in the State where the mining claims and sites are to be located.

From: NEW MEXICO STATE BUREAU OF MINES AND MINERAL RESOURCES

The discovery of mineral must be within the boundaries ofthe claim but need not be on the center line. If the discovery is not near the location notice it is advisable to state in the notice the distance and direction to the discovery.

 

[goldenIrishman]

The main word in that last statement from the New Mexico regs is "ADVISABLE". This isn't a set in stone requirement. Including the distance and direction to the discovery is like giving a thief a treasure map! I'd include the locations of my corners as is required but I'll be damned if I'd be telling any yahoo that happens upon my monument of discovery "DIG HERE!" That's a special kind of stupid.

I also find the statement that the discovery has to be inside the boundaries of the claim kind of strange. When you think of it, isn't a claim supposed to protect the rights to that discovery? Not including the area of discovery within the boundaries of the claim would not protect the mineral rights to them at all. Makes you wonder who it was that wrote those laws up and if they had ever done any mining themselves.

 

[chlsbrns]

Anyone interested in facts should also read 43 CFR Part 3830, 3832, and 3833

No discovery monument located where the discovered valuable minerals are located = invalid claim.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Sorry but the way you're looking at it is a little off. The monument of discovery must be located within the claimed area and preferably on an edge of the claim where it is most noticeable. The way you're stating it would make people think they have to have the monument located right on top of the actual discovery. This is not the case. As long as the monument has all the proper documentation in it and is located within the boundaries of the claim the claim is valid for 90 days to give the prospector time to test the area to determine if it is worth filing a permanent claim on with the county in which it is located as is required by law. If the prospector does not file within that 90 days, the area is then open for others to explore and possibly claim unless the prospector "Re-discovers" it by updating his monument. Marked corners and a monument of discovery are required here in Arizona to have a valid claim. Claim owners are also SUPPOSED to maintain their posts and monuments but many of the claims here were either never posted or the posts were used by others (campers, off-roaders etc) for fire wood or targets over the years. I have NEVER heard of any claims being invalidated for lack of corner/monument posts by the feds. The BLM is happy as long as you give them your money. I've also never heard of the BLM in this area actually checking claims unless they are using heavy equipment of some type which requires a permit. There's two (2) field agents in my county and my county is 13 times the size of Rhode Island!!! That's a LOT of land, with a LOT of summer heat and very little manpower to cover it.

By your last post you should also see that the the feds allow the states to set the regulations on exactly how a claim must be located and marked. A prospector that's worth his or her salt will know the requirements for the state that they are working in. That's a basic part of doing your due diligence. If you don't know the laws for that state, then you have no business trying to make a claim in it. Each state is different to some extent on their requirements. Arizona is the state I know and so I stick to it. If I was in say Oregon or Washington I'd learn the laws before even thinking of filing for a claim there.

 

[chlsbrns]

Everyone can use your brains and make your own interpretation. Im not going to post the same things over and over again nor am I going to try to convince those who just do not get it!

 

[chlsbrns]

.....

 

[chlsbrns]

The screenshots are from a college course that teaches how to stake a claim!