Civil War Payroll gold may have been found in Elk County PA

[Tom_in_CA]

Fox "News" is on the case!

Rumored site of $55M in Civil War-era gold draws FBI's attention, reports say | Fox News
....

To a lot of people: The more news sources break with this, the more it-must-be-true, eh ? But no. All this means and does is fulfill the age old psychology of "crowds draw crowds" phenomenon. Added news crews does not lend any more credibility to the supposition being made.

And let's be honest: Treasure stories are fun ! Who can resist a good old fashioned Indian Jones treasure story ? Thus it will 'sell' on the evening news. One news agency sees another had covered it, so they too have to rush to cover it. Lends nothing to the credibility of the story in question. Other than to profile the clowns and their claims. Sorry.

 

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[Old Bookaroo]

Why take a wagon well north - closer to Gen. Lee and his Confederate army? - when the RR offered a direct route to Philadelphia?



Barringtons new and reliable railroad map and shippers & travellers guide of Pennsylvania, Engrd. by Ths. Leonhardt,showing the name of every city, town and village in the state, with nearest rail road station.(Philadelphia: 1860)


Dents Run doesn't seem to be on a logical path from Wheeling to Philadelphia.

Why was all this gold in Wheeling? That's coal country - not known for gold mining.

Wheeling wasn't exactly New York or Chicago of the 1860's. Did the treasure belong to local banks? Did they make no effort to recover it? Look at the efforts made by various banks in the South for decades after Appomattox to recover their lost specie.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[franklin]

Watch the video and look at the dejected looks on Finder's Keepers faces as they enter the tent for briefing with the FBI. This was a day or two before they left the area. No Gold.

The United States Government received about $40 Million Dollars a year from gold mines out west. I do not think a ton or two of gold (about $375,000) from West Virginia would have made a dent in any military payroll. The soldiers were not payed in gold specie anyways. The enlisted men got like $11 a month and they were paid every two months. I have all the paymasters names and their annual payrolls. They had strict orders back then on who carried the money and who distributed the money and records were kept. So where is the documentation that a rag tag bunch of 10 men would escort a gold shipment. Where is it documented in the newspapers, any paper trail to document other than some drunk at a bar?

 

[Old Bookaroo]

I'm confident the FBI can look out for itself.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[1320]

Fox "News" is on the case!

Rumored site of $55M in Civil War-era gold draws FBI's attention, reports say | Fox News

Here's another article:

Has lost Civil War gold bound for Philly been found?

With all this publicity the woods are going to be full of "treasure hunters." Good thing it isn't deer season!

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

The comments on the Fox link are awesome! Here is one of them:

So, this group is convinced 27-55 million dollars, in the form of 26-52 gold bars, are buried at a state park. They also claim the exact location has been determined using a "high power metal detector". My question is, what kind of capitalist are you? Risk v reward baby. They should have used a back hoe, got in and out quickly with their loot and then...confess to digging the hole. Claim temporarily insanity(gold fever), pay your restitution to the state, the couple of lawyers you'll need, and be on your way.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Why take a wagon well north - closer to Gen. Lee and his Confederate army? - when the RR offered a direct route to Philadelphia?...

Old book, I'm enjoying all your inputs. And yes, you're applying a logical critical eye to the elements of the story. But here's where it gets "funky" when dealing with the faithful. If/when someone comes on with a "chink in the armor" like you're doing, then ... humorously ... here's what happens next :

The faithful will have a come-back line of some remote way where the oddity *could* make sense. To grasp for reasons why they took a longer route or whatever. Thus the critic comes back to try to explain that away. So the faithful comes back to answer that objection as well, with another scenario by-which it *might* still be true. And so on and so forth: A ping-pong game back to infinity. Same here with the tractors: Notice how that goes off on a rabbit trail ping-pong game. Of the size of the bucket, the brand name and model of the tractor, etc.... But ask yourself : What the heck difference does the size and brand and type bucket and length of stay have to do with whether or not there was a treasure there ? Nothing at all, right ?

And pretty soon, you notice we're no longer talking about "is there even a treasure in the first place?" Nnneeooohh, we're debating side ancillary issues which have nothing to do with the starting point of the discussion.

Notice that's exactly what happened on the Oak Island deal: Pages and pages of debate on when a certain coconut fiber reached north America. A skeptic tries to show that didn't arrive on that hemisphere of the planet till a certain decade in history. So the faithful come up with a far-fetched notion of how it could have drifted across the ocean with the currents. The skeptic point out that it would be water-logged and sink before reaching here. So the faithful point out that a certain African variety of coconut fiber retains buoyancy longer. blah blah blah. See how that devolves ?

Not that it's not helpful to point out chinks in the story. But rather than putting an end to the debate, it merely causes them to find some odd way in which the story *could* still work, given enough far-reaching-contingencies. So the critic eventually gives up, and the faithful claim the victory that the story is therefore iron-clad-true.

 

[1320]

Watch the video and look at the dejected looks on Finder's Keepers faces as they enter the tent for briefing with the FBI. This was a day or two before they left the area. No Gold.

The United States Government received about $40 Million Dollars a year from gold mines out west. I do not think a ton or two of gold (about $375,000) from West Virginia would have made a dent in any military payroll. The soldiers were not payed in gold specie anyways. The enlisted men got like $11 a month and they were paid every two months. I have all the paymasters names and their annual payrolls. They had strict orders back then on who carried the money and who distributed the money and records were kept. So where is the documentation that a rag tag bunch of 10 men would escort a gold shipment. Where is it documented in the newspapers, any paper trail to document other than some drunk at a bar?

I noticed some very dejected folks in that video

 

[Old Bookaroo]

franklin:

The "payroll" isn't, according to the legend, in specie. It's in gold bars.

Granted it was many years later, but the Wham payroll was in gold and silver coin. All $28,000. A much more reasonable figure for the 19th Century US Army. I remember reading in Fairfax Downey's Indian Fighting Army (a "source" for Stephen Longstreet's book, but that's quite another story) that one year after the Civil War (from memory it was in the 1870s) Congress forgot to appropriate money to pay the US Military!

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Timbersnort]

Ok, so the convoy was never sent to the site to load treasure on to trucks. The average person would say "ah, no treasure" and be done with the story. But to the believer, .... no .... this doesn't prove the legend wrong. The starting point of their whole enterprise is:

A) the legend is true, therefore

B) all other observations/facts that come along merely get molded to fit the starting premise. (Rather than added facts informing the starting premise), thus

C) The treasure is still there, and it will be big

If it's not there today, it will be there tomorrow or next week. If it's not in one hole, that merely means it must be a little more to the left or right. If it's not at 5 ft. , that merely means it must be at 10 ft. And so on, and so forth, till infinity. But at no point is the treasure not most certainly there. Eh ?

The average person would say if the FBI forensic unit and US Army were deployed to the area they must have other verified written accounts (Pinkerton records, Paymaster etc.) to have a effort authorized to this extent.

A) The legend has potential to exist as revealed by the actions and comments of credible persons commenting, interviewed, and involved that have revealed their positions since the FBI came on scene.

B) The business world uses reverse engineering everyday to substantiate a starting premise.

C) Potential exists for parts or most of the shipment to be in the area regardless of the soon to come Big findings related to this current FBI investigation.

10's of thousands of acres of potential to be enjoyed of course with a good pair of thigh high snake chaps.

 

[wainzoid]

The Union army was suprised that Lee entered Pa near Gettysburg. They expected them farther to the west in an attempt to take out the railroad in Altoona. Trenches dug for defense of this still remain in Bedford and Blair Counties.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Reading J. Frank Dobie's classic Legends of Texas (1924) - I've become interested in the early accounts of the Lost Sublette "Mine" - I came across a note about Santa Ana's payroll taken from him in Texas. We know the state has any number of legends about lost Mexican army payrolls, cannon stuffed with treasure and then buried or thrown into a river, etc. At San Jacinto the Texas Army took Santa Ana's paychest - with $11,000 in specie inside. There don't appear to be any other documented lost Mexican army payrolls. Like the Union Army during our Civil War, the Mexican army was paid both poorly and sporadically.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Tom_in_CA]

timbersnort, Very good. Let's examine your material piece by piece :

The average person would say if the FBI forensic unit and US Army were deployed to the area they must have other verified written accounts (Pinkerton records, Paymaster etc.) to have a effort authorized to this extent......

Really ? Let's test this: I bet that ... if you give me a year (these clowns had a decade) I could create THE VERY SAME MEDIA CIRCUS here in CA on a spot with no treasure. Yup, LEO's , security, cameras, media, and everything. All I have to do is start digging on some state park land. Get kicked off. Then files reams of appeals. Go to the media, go out there and dig some more despite the warning, and ..... presto, they'll add security.

I know first-hand of some spots that persons were snooping around with detectors. And if known, then ... surprise suprise, security is added ? Media is appraised ? NONE OF WHICH MEANS: "certain treasures". All it means is a few guys went making waves and got attention.

.... A) The legend has potential to exist as revealed by the actions and comments of credible persons commenting, interviewed, and involved .....

This fails to take into account that EVERY legend (even the silly ghost-story un-true ones) will have, ... yes .... "credible persons" involved. They ALL are built around actual names, dates, events, etc.... But that's not addressing the issue of "does a treasure exist ?".

....B) The business world uses reverse engineering everyday to substantiate a starting premise....

Ok. And the business world uses reverse engineering to debunk stories too, eh ? To find more plausible explanations, and shoot holes in the weaknesses.

.....C) Potential exists for parts or most of the shipment to be in the area regardless of the soon to come Big findings related to this current FBI investigation......

Uh, this statement just assumed a treasure exists/existed. If that starting premise is true, then everything else in this statement logically follows. But since when is this ? Says who ? Isn't the existence of the treasure (your premise) what we're discussing ? You've merely assumed what you're trying to prove, as evidence of your proof of it. A logical fallacy.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The Union army was suprised that Lee entered Pa near Gettysburg. They expected them farther to the west in an attempt to take out the railroad in Altoona. Trenches dug for defense of this still remain in Bedford and Blair Counties.

ok. And this has what to do with the merits or demerits of the treasure story ?

I suppose someone could point to the "element of surprise" (ie.: un-expected and unusual enemy tactics) as proof that .... likewise : The unlikeliness of a treasure legend to to be true, is explained by the military stealth and espionage ?

Or am I mis-understanding you ?

 

[wainzoid]

Possible reason for the route they took or reason they didnt use railroad

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Possible reason for the route they took or reason they didnt use railroad

Ok. And so too can any proposition or claim, given enough thought, can be made meritorious. Eg.: there *might* be a reason for me to walk backward to New York. Someone could come up with a rational reason why it's possible I would perform such a stunt. Don't get "lost in the example". I'm only pointing out that any supposition , can be shown to be feasibly possible. But the fact of "feasibly possible" does not make it "more plausible". Look up "occam's razor".

 

[loco oro]

Are you kidding, the FBI would not be there for security,they are there for federal investigation, pa state police would be there for any contemporary crime,whatever was there would have to be fed jurisdiction no less,armchair researchers can dig up all kinds of infonas long as its been digitized ,civil war records,are physically stored at several locations and described by sq footage of files,so the absence of a clear and evident info trail ,well must be bullish right?give me a break,the feds were digging on protected lands because of the (stink)of a treasure hunter,this hole argument is a joke

 

[1320]

Are you kidding, the FBI would not be there for security,they are there for federal investigation, pa state police would be there for any contemporary crime,whatever was there would have to be fed jurisdiction no less,armchair researchers can dig up all kinds of infonas long as its been digitized ,civil war records,are physically stored at several locations and described by sq footage of files,so the absence of a clear and evident info trail ,well must be bullish right?give me a break,the feds were digging on protected lands because of the (stink)of a treasure hunter,this hole argument is a joke

Yep, squeaky wheel gets the grease, I can see that logic being applied in this case and the taxpayers get the honor of footing the bill.

 

[franklin]

There was a Union Payroll missing near Buchannon, West Virginia about the same value as the one in Pennsylvania. Michael Paul Henson wrote a well documented story on that one. I have looked for it and I have researched it. The first men that ran upon the wagon train of gold had a captain and some others about 80 or 90 men. They went down and talked with the Major that was in charge of the money train and told him that he was surrounded. The Major told them they had better not try to take what they were transporting. Well the Captain went back and told his men they were going to take that wagon train. The Union soldiers guarding the train had repeating rifles and the men from KY had only single shots. Well they shot them up pretty good, hardly a handful of the Ky soldiers were left, most just went on back home.

Later a Rebel Calvary unit came up on the scene and saw all the Ky soldiers killed, they attacked the train and killed everyone of the Yankees. Among the Majors papers were his orders of the cargo they were carrying and the outfit which was the 11th Virginia Calvary looked for the money but could not find it. They did see money boxes scattered all around and in the creek. One of the men in the 11th Virginia Calvary met up with one of the first soldiers that had attacked the wagon train and they knew immediately they were talking about the same wagon train. One of the men was William Bush and Michael Paul Henson got the story from his son, Daniel Bush. I believe this treasure is still where the Yankee Major and his men hid it in the rocks and caves or in a shallow hole near the two fights. Has anyone in the Buchannon area found any relics along the Buchannon River near Buchannon, most likely North of Buchannon.

 

[Honest Samuel]

I am wondering if Daniel Bush had search for this treasure. Good hunting and good luck.

 

[pa plateau hiker]

Couldn't the Freedom of Information Act be used in a case like this? Anybody know.